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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039464 times)
Collider
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June 25, 2014, 02:38:22 PM
 #35941

This debate is a joke.

Basically, mining is a hedged investment on Bitcoin, and your profit is lower but your risk is also lower than purely investing in Bitcoin.

Furthermore, you help stabilize and secure the network aswell as verify transactions.

Buy and hold is nice, and many miners also do this, but the positive impact on the Bitcoin system is very limited.
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June 25, 2014, 02:43:08 PM
 #35942

This debate is a joke.

Basically, mining is a hedged investment on Bitcoin, and your profit is lower but your risk is also lower than purely investing in Bitcoin.

Furthermore, you help stabilize and secure the network aswell as verify transactions.

Buy and hold is nice, and many miners also do this, but the positive impact on the Bitcoin system is very limited.

You can mine and do all the things you suggest AND recover your costs or you can mine and not recover your costs.

Which would *YOU* rather do Collider ?

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

This is why honest ROI discussions are so important. The future of bitcoin depends on mining being economically sustainable.

Those vendors who avoid ROI discussions, take advantage of people's ignorance or otherwise exploit their customers are doing bitcoin a grave disservice. Its easy to talk the talk, how many of them are walking the walk ?



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June 25, 2014, 02:58:32 PM
 #35943

This debate is a joke.

Basically, mining is a hedged investment on Bitcoin, and your profit is lower but your risk is also lower than purely investing in Bitcoin.

Furthermore, you help stabilize and secure the network aswell as verify transactions.

Buy and hold is nice, and many miners also do this, but the positive impact on the Bitcoin system is very limited.

You can mine and do all the things you suggest AND recover your costs or you can mine and not recover your costs.

Which would *YOU* rather do Collider ?

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

This is why honest ROI discussions are so important. The future of bitcoin depends on mining being economically sustainable.

Those vendors who avoid ROI discussions, take advantage of people's ignorance or otherwise exploit their customers are doing bitcoin a grave disservice. Its easy to talk the talk, how many of them are walking the walk ?





I agree with a lot of what you said, but mining hardware manufacturers also need to make a profit and they won't sell below manufacturing cost unless they are forced to do so by market conditions.

Personally, I think pre-ordering hardware months in advance is silly and will not do so, but others are free to play that game if they wish. From a purely selfish perspective, others pre-ordering hardware months in advance is actually good for me in this zero sum mining game because it almost never works out well for the buyer.

Mining ROI is impossible to predict beforehand, and gets even harder the longer out you look because there are too many variables that can change dramatically and influence the outcome (difficulty, BTC price, delivery date, ...).

I'm actually very surprised at how many folks kept their Neptune pre-order considering they had the option of getting a refund as recently as a month ago, and the Neptune will obviously never mine back as many coins as they would have been refunded. Miners are a crazy bunch, and don't always act in their own economic best interest.

The difficulty is going up a lot right now due to the Neptune, but had KNC delivered a few months ago, the total network difficulty would be much higher right now. Thanks for being late, KNC!
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June 25, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
 #35944

I agree with a lot of what you said, but mining hardware manufacturers also need to make a profit and they won't sell below manufacturing cost unless they are forced to do so by market conditions.

Sure. That is part of the market dynamics. But it shouldn't preclude an honest discussion of the issue. The fact remains, both miner manufacturing and mining have to be economically sustainable for the network to survive.

Personally, I think pre-ordering hardware months in advance is silly

Agreed.

Mining ROI is impossible to predict beforehand, and gets even harder the longer out you look because there are too many variables that can change dramatically and influence the outcome (difficulty, BTC price, delivery date, …).

That isn't a good argument for ignoring the silliness of spending 8 BTC now for 5 later. Sure, maybe there is a .00009999 percent chance that the network difficulty will be a lot lower in 6 months that it is now, but simple probabilistic analysis allows us to define the error bounds for our ROI analyses.

The difficulty is going up a lot right now due to the Neptune, but had KNC delivered a few months ago, the total network difficulty would be much higher right now. Thanks for being late, KNC!

I hope it isn't just the Neptune … because the S3 and other machines are waiting in the wings too. If this coming ~ 30% increase is just the Neptune, the next one or two are going to be just as bad.


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June 25, 2014, 03:27:38 PM
 #35945


I am not familiar with multiple PSU's. How to set up single rail or multi rails? what is the best option to make neptune work? suppose I have three 850W PSU.

Each PSU is single  OR  multi rail.
Each rail needs to be capable 300 Watt minimum for each ASIC plugged into that rail.
(based on KnC statements)
For multi rail supplies you gotta dig into the literature for specifics on each rail.

For your 3 x 850 question, I'll assume single rail PSUs.
Use 2 ASIC per PSU and power controller cube from 3rd PSU with one ASIC.
If the 'suits' are to be believed this will load the 850's  to around 600 Watts.

If your three 850W PSUs are single rail and were in one box it would be a 'triple rail 2550W with 850W rails'.

Hope this helps.
Please if possible understand what is going on before applying power.
Internet advice can be faulty even with good intentions!!!

YMMV
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June 25, 2014, 03:33:00 PM
 #35946

Each PSU is single  OR  multi rail.
Each rail needs to be capable 300 Watt minimum for each ASIC plugged into that rail.
(based on KnC statements)
For multi rail supplies you gotta dig into the literature for specifics on each rail.

For your 3 x 850 question, I'll assume single rail PSUs.
Use 2 ASIC per PSU and power controller cube from 3rd PSU with one ASIC.
If the 'suits' are to be believed this will load the 850's  to around 600 Watts.

If your three 850W PSUs are single rail and were in one box it would be a 'triple rail 2550W with 850W rails'.

Hope this helps.
Please if possible understand what is going on before applying power.
Internet advice can be faulty even with good intentions!!!

YMMV
Smiley


thank you so much!

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
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June 25, 2014, 04:33:40 PM
Last edit: June 25, 2014, 05:01:36 PM by Phoenix1969
 #35947

Peeps....
I thought every miner knew....

You should only use SINGLE RAIL PSU'S
anything else you are wasting $ and taking huge risks imho

Multi-rail PSU's are SHIT,
I burnt out a couple last Generation before going to all Corsair single-rail
Even when the multi's "worked", they could not keep up with the rest
Even 5 year old-crappy used HP desktop PSU's were better. Just sayin'


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June 25, 2014, 04:47:58 PM
 #35948

The Dell Zp750s and HP DPS800/1200/2000's work very well for powering the neptunes, nothing but pure 12v power.
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June 25, 2014, 05:09:07 PM
 #35949

Agreed, miners typically pull more than standard power on the pcie cables and therefore should always be using single rail PSUs (apart from maybe the new Antminer S3).

Mining isn´t dead when new miners don´t get ROI, it is when everyone (atleast a large percentage) stops mining due to power costs being higher than bitcoins generated.

There are frequent cases of people not reaching ROI, and most Neptune customers should not reach ROI at todays market, with more big deployments right around the corner.
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June 25, 2014, 05:27:34 PM
Last edit: June 25, 2014, 05:41:20 PM by Phoenix1969
 #35950

Yeah, on ROI... Looks like Neptune may or may not make even 5 btc... if it runs perfect.
30% estimated change with a few days to go, and the next few diffchanges look to be similar
Looks like mining just got stomped into commercial and private clouds by all the manufacturers who decided to mine for themselves.
cough cough
With 43 cent electric here, no way mining in Hawaii is profitable anymore
It would be cheaper for me to rent an office or storage unit in Chelan where it's 2.4cents, but difficulty says forget mining imho.

I'm done. As soon as these Neppies ship out, I'll be turning my attention elsewhere. (trading for now)
Good luck to all, and thank you to those who "put up" with me for the last year plus.
If anything, made a few cool friends...   *Aloha.*


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June 25, 2014, 05:36:40 PM
 #35951

Agreed, miners typically pull more than standard power on the pcie cables and therefore should always be using single rail PSUs (apart from maybe the new Antminer S3).

Mining isn´t dead when new miners don´t get ROI, it is when everyone (atleast a large percentage) stops mining due to power costs being higher than bitcoins generated.

There are frequent cases of people not reaching ROI, and most Neptune customers should not reach ROI at todays market, with more big deployments right around the corner.


Let's not forget the initial cost of the machines themselves. They are not free
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June 25, 2014, 05:38:02 PM
 #35952

Hello

If any one has added proper heatsinks to the Neptunes VRMs as of yet I would be very interested in knowing the reduction in temperatures.
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June 25, 2014, 05:39:18 PM
 #35953

Let's not forget the initial cost of the machines themselves. They are not free

KNC would disagree, they got paid to have equipment and mine with it. A lot of it.

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June 25, 2014, 07:20:46 PM
 #35954

I'm scared because I got a refund on one order recently, but regrettably switched another order to a Titan in April. At the downward spiral rate that KNCMiner is going, I am afraid that they will continue to pull sketchy tactics or even worse not deliver. I think its nearly impossible to get a Titan refund at this point.

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June 25, 2014, 07:38:49 PM
 #35955

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

That's why I wonder if Wall street crowd realizes what they are doing in pushing down the price?
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June 25, 2014, 07:46:46 PM
 #35956

This debate is a joke.

Basically, mining is a hedged investment on Bitcoin, and your profit is lower but your risk is also lower than purely investing in Bitcoin.

Furthermore, you help stabilize and secure the network aswell as verify transactions.

Buy and hold is nice, and many miners also do this, but the positive impact on the Bitcoin system is very limited.

You can mine and do all the things you suggest AND recover your costs or you can mine and not recover your costs.

Which would *YOU* rather do Collider ?

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

This is why honest ROI discussions are so important. The future of bitcoin depends on mining being economically sustainable.

Those vendors who avoid ROI discussions, take advantage of people's ignorance or otherwise exploit their customers are doing bitcoin a grave disservice. Its easy to talk the talk, how many of them are walking the walk ?





I agree with this guy ^^^^

Donate BTC >39vE8z2t2GEWvxkaNwPi9dghfwFsi2kY5A
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June 25, 2014, 08:02:04 PM
 #35957

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

That's why I wonder if Wall street crowd realizes what they are doing in pushing down the price?


If I had to guess as to why there could be forceful artificial devaluation, I would say it's to push out the little people and help make it more centric to the people with power, money and influence

Also, to buy more for less.

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June 25, 2014, 08:12:55 PM
 #35958

Also any details about the fan of Neptune to buy some replaced it?

fan = 140mm by 25mm thick  12V 0.4A  4 pin
(4 pin usually means PWM)

YMMV
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June 25, 2014, 08:20:12 PM
 #35959

Without profit mining is dead. When mining dies, the network dies.

You are wrong. Mining will continue to run even if it will run on red. Just need to find someone to pay for electricity costs.

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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June 25, 2014, 08:40:44 PM
 #35960

its nearly impossible to get a Titan refund at this point.


Per their ToS it is, but just be persistent yet polite and they may change their mind. You may find someone human over there that may care a smidge and do the right thing.
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