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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012402 times)
shmadz
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June 25, 2014, 02:16:57 AM
 #35901

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive.  

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

meh, if they improve on the design by batch 3, (which I expect they will) then getting a neppy tomorrow and getting another better one some ? months from now for 11 bitcoin? meh, I'll take it - maybe I'm just a die-hard miner)

== however == if they improve to the point that they only ship 4 module neppy's instead of 5 module ones in batch 3 because "it's still 3 TH's" then the gloves will come off.

*edit* forget neptune, should have called this the octopus.

"You have no moral right to rule us, nor do you possess any methods of enforcement that we have reason to fear." - John Perry Barlow, 1996
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tolip_wen
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June 25, 2014, 02:28:39 AM
 #35902



Got three people saying they have faulty rigs here, so "functional" is yet to be proved:
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/hardware/47688-neptune-here-but-not-working


The link you posted seems to indicate an issue with power supplies not ASIC's.
Your statement that they claim 'faulty rigs' is not supported by your link.
Although the issues are related.

YMMV
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faetos
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June 25, 2014, 02:29:49 AM
 #35903

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive. 

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.
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June 25, 2014, 02:32:13 AM
 #35904

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive.  

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.

huh?

I hope it never leaves the realm of hobbyists. Ambitious hobbyists? perhaps, but hobbyists nonetheless.

too bad it feels like that ship has already sailed....  Cry

if you want bitcoin I fear you will have to buy it from now on.

not completely a bad thing as it (commercial mining farms) could keep the price down for a long enough time frame that a larger percentage of the public can get on the train.

the more people that are aboard, the further the train can go.

"You have no moral right to rule us, nor do you possess any methods of enforcement that we have reason to fear." - John Perry Barlow, 1996
xstr8guy
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June 25, 2014, 02:38:22 AM
 #35905

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive.  

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.

huh?

I hope it never leaves the realm of hobbyists. Ambitious hobbyists? perhaps, but hobbyists nonetheless.

too bad it feels like that ship has already sailed....  Cry

Meh, (ill-informed) hobbyists will still exist. Go read the Rbox and S3 threads. They're still excited about 300-500GHs units.

But yes, profitable @home mining is gasping it's last breath if not already dead.
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June 25, 2014, 02:41:25 AM
 #35906

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive.  

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.

huh?

I hope it never leaves the realm of hobbyists. Ambitious hobbyists? perhaps, but hobbyists nonetheless.

too bad it feels like that ship has already sailed....  Cry

Meh, (ill-informed) hobbyists will still exist. Go read the Rbox and S3 threads. They're still excited about 300-500GHs units.

But yes, profitable @home mining is gasping it's last breath if not already dead.

gasping in the heat! yeah, I turned off all my miners today just to take a bitcoin vacation and enjoy a nice, quiet, cool apartment...

it lasted about an hour.

"You have no moral right to rule us, nor do you possess any methods of enforcement that we have reason to fear." - John Perry Barlow, 1996
xstr8guy
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June 25, 2014, 02:45:17 AM
 #35907

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive.  

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.

huh?

I hope it never leaves the realm of hobbyists. Ambitious hobbyists? perhaps, but hobbyists nonetheless.

too bad it feels like that ship has already sailed....  Cry

Meh, (ill-informed) hobbyists will still exist. Go read the Rbox and S3 threads. They're still excited about 300-500GHs units.

But yes, profitable @home mining is gasping it's last breath if not already dead.

gasping in the heat! yeah, I turned off all my miners today just to take a bitcoin vacation and enjoy a nice, quiet, cool apartment...

it lasted about an hour.

Oh god, I'm so tempted to do the same. I'm typing this while sitting in my pool!  It's 100 outside but the pool feels great compared to the 85f in the house. My A/C just can't keep up during daylight hours.
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June 25, 2014, 02:46:20 AM
 #35908

As someone who isn't an obvious shill or troll,  I also agree.  The 2-1 thing and extra neptune being exclusive was outright deceptive. 

Indeed. Deceptive practices seem the rule rather than the exception in the bitcoin world. It does not bode will for the success of bitcoin.

The article on arstechnica that got slashdotted was just full of bitcoin manufacturers, service vendors, and trading houses and the like are just shady MFs. The comments are just as ignorant, but unfortunately that's the perception and what grabs news headlines. If this industry is ever going to prosper then we need to get smarter as consumers and business owners and support honest, decent businesses and conduct ourselves in the same manner. Otherwise, this industry will never get the respect it deserves and never leave the realm of hobbyists.

huh?

I hope it never leaves the realm of hobbyists. Ambitious hobbyists? perhaps, but hobbyists nonetheless.

too bad it feels like that ship has already sailed....  Cry

Meh, (ill-informed) hobbyists will still exist. Go read the Rbox and S3 threads. They're still excited about 300-500GHs units.

But yes, profitable @home mining is gasping it's last breath if not already dead.

gasping in the heat! yeah, I turned off all my miners today just to take a bitcoin vacation and enjoy a nice, quiet, cool apartment...

it lasted about an hour.

There's always room for hobbyists for sure, but this industry needs some solid, reliable manufacturers and services for it to survive and prosper. Anyway, sorry, this is getting OT from the main KnC trolling and shilling. Please continue Smiley
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June 25, 2014, 02:59:46 AM
 #35909

== however == if they improve to the point that they only ship 4 module neppy's instead of 5 module ones in batch 3 because "it's still 3 TH's" then the gloves will come off.

This is pretty much guaranteed to happen in some way, there is no way they are gonna send 3 fully working boxes to the half neptune customers. They will either get 2 OCd/binned units or if thats not a possibility they will get some half broken/under performing units, KNC will not be giving hashrate away!
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June 25, 2014, 03:10:53 AM
 #35910

I guess the big question I have for those who have received their Neptune's in the US and in Canada (if there aren't Canadian's other than myself in this thread) did you have to pay duty if so how how much?

Thanks,



 You don't have to pay duty but you have to pay the HST @ 13% of the declared value after converting to CAD which is a real downer since our dollar plummeted against the USD since last NOV.  I've had to pay this one every miner I've purchased... yes I got BFL'd.
 

depends what province.

Alberta should pay 5% GST only.

*edit* plus probably some kind of brokerage fee

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June 25, 2014, 03:50:21 AM
 #35911

Bedroom? How old are you? Do you just rent a room or a house or something? You have BIG balls if you are going to run an SP30 in a room. First it's huge. Double the size of the SP10 and weighs quite a bit. When shipped, it is considered "freight" and not a package because it weighs so much. I have 100 amp service, could get away with running my SP10 but the noise was too much. I can just see you....when trying to wash clothes have to turn the miners off, then switch back real quick after the last load. Is you stove electric to? Yikes, can't make that mac-n-cheese when mining away! Smiley

100 amps isn't really much, I had that running in a tiny GPU farm in a small office. With the right cooling in place, it was nearly silent. If someone wanted to run an SP30 in a bedroom, I'm sure they could do it, and with the right mods it could be done well.

Not sure where you are in the world, but most american homes use 200-300 amp service.

Newer homes  built in the US are more efficient and don't require amperage like the in the past. That's why you see 100 AMP service for a normal size 3 bedroom 2 bath house now. My house was built in the year 2000, which is considered new in the housing world and came with 100amp service. If the house was 20 years old, I bet it would have 200-300 amp panel in the basement.


It depends on the area and what the house is capable of supporting as well. There's no universal standard for what it will come with. The last house I was in had a 240 or 260 amp service, and one of my friend's recently built houses had 200 despite being under 2000sq/ft. YMMV.

TBH I've never seen just 100amp in a 3br/2bth, new or old.

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June 25, 2014, 03:59:23 AM
 #35912

Wow, you demonstrate your stupidity very thoroughly here. They promised not to mine with not more than 5% of what they SOLD, not 5% of the entire bitcoin network.

The "promise" is still being made, even today.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/faq

Quote
We will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate we sell

Buy & Hold
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June 25, 2014, 04:04:25 AM
 #35913

Wow, you demonstrate your stupidity very thoroughly here. They promised not to mine with not more than 5% of what they SOLD, not 5% of the entire bitcoin network.

The "promise" is still being made, even today.

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/faq

Quote
We will not mine with more than 5% of the hash rate we sell

Haha, wow they're still touting that garbage?

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June 25, 2014, 04:05:54 AM
 #35914

They made it pretty clear early on that they were going to be building a cloud hashing facility, and that Neptune would probably be their last consumer-grade mining product. Despite the constant bitching in this thread there is exactly zero data to show that they violated their miner protection guarantee during the period in which it was supposed to be relevant. Avenger hammers on endlessly about pseudo-facts like this and then just in the past day has rather hilariously ignored that the pie chart showed KNC with 5% of network hash power prior to the spike as Neptunes were being powered on and shipped.  That was actually what prompted me to post.

I am sorry but you are wrong here. They stated last summer that they will not self mine with more than 5% of what hashpower they sell. But let's ignore this fact, yes they have 5% NOW, but they are mining since March-April and they had a lot more than 5% back then. It's a very big difference from what you are saying.

The people who have complained about refunds seem to either be ephemeral trolls or to simply be unable to figure out how to provide the correct information for an international wire transfer. As this is a situation that could be resolved with a phone call or a short trip to their bank I don't see how this is a trust issue for KNC.

Let me tell you about some real facts. A real life friend of mine asked for a refund in May via wire transfer. KnC delayed him up to the point of shipping and he woke up with the Neptune at the door while they were able to issue bitcoin refunds. If you don't find this to be very bad practice towards their customers then you are too blinded by them.

Arguably with 3.3Th/s of performance they have exceeded their threshhold by 10%, and power consumption seems to have come in below the level they stated, so while it's more a motto than anything else, they did in fact over-deliver.

Yes personally I give them credit for that, but not for stating that the Neptune will be in a box like the Jupiter and then shipping it in 5 separate boxes. Engineering fail there.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
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June 25, 2014, 04:09:47 AM
 #35915

Sorry for the off topic but when I restarted my October Saturn it just keeps rebooting after 5s being responsive to Ping's ... at the same time it resets the blue light flashes very quickly.

I found that If disconnect one of the asic board from the board the miner runs well with the remaining one. ... I already tried to connect the "bad" asic to other connectors on the controller board but the same thing happens. ...

Is there any logs that I could look to see what is going on?
Does anyone saw this behavior before? The miner was running for ~25 days 24x7 without any issue but now this happened......
Does it mean the board died?

thx!



what firmware are you running/ how many ports do you have on the controller board

I have 6 ports on the controller board and it is running firmware 1.01
Somehow, after rebooting the controller many times and factory reset the settings with the asics .. and the restoring one asic board per time is now working .... no idea what happened or what was the problem...

thx!


Dog-shit engineering?

+ LOL @ Old-Dominion back again, missed you ai-lie-orama - trying to get your job back??

or more of the old Stockholm syndrome?


E2A - Scam Cole - you know that 'grands' we owe ya?  Well i've come up with a cunning little scheme...

Old_dominion/Bitcuntorama/Alex - Slurp, Guzzle, Gag, One sec..... Gulp!  Anything you say boss, you got any more of those shirts in 'small'?

Scamhole - Yea, sure help yourself to any size you like. Take a couple.

Old/Cunt/Alex - oh thanks boss, the smalls perfect - you ready for round 2?

Scamhole - Go on then you mucky little jizzmopper.

O/C/A - Tee-Hee. Im such a go-getter, everyone else is a troll, liar or dense.

99% of the BTCTalk Community - 'what a bunch of cunts'

Phonie-X - Leave KnC alone...Waaaaa... 4 vrms, hodor, general stupidity & ignorance

Searing - i got a Titan (sigh) guess ill blah, blah, blah some more....sighs

Dropt - edgars a loud mouth (but raises very significant facts)

ok, i'm bored/vented now - Fuck Y'all!
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June 25, 2014, 04:10:06 AM
 #35916

I guess the big question I have for those who have received their Neptune's in the US and in Canada (if there aren't Canadian's other than myself in this thread) did you have to pay duty if so how how much?

Thanks,



 You don't have to pay duty but you have to pay the HST @ 13% of the declared value after converting to CAD which is a real downer since our dollar plummeted against the USD since last NOV.  I've had to pay this one every miner I've purchased... yes I got BFL'd.
 

depends what province.

Alberta should pay 5% GST only.

*edit* plus probably some kind of brokerage fee

I may or may not get my stuff shipped to the states first...always...sask here....cheaper....frankncrapper didnt cost me any customs....it was broken.....marked "useless computer shit" ...replacement parts marked "RMA replacement parts"....good thing the boxes were fkd up alittle, that always helps...
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June 25, 2014, 06:10:09 AM
 #35917

Quote
I have to agree with this. The lies they told and then turning the customer into the competition. Shameless and pityful.

Mmmm .... Lurked on this one for a while ... and have respect for Dogie with his excellent teardowns ... but KNC surely lost all trust some time ago?

If not ... why not?

Maybe because for anyone who isn't sucking down BS from Avenger and friends it looks like aside from doing a crappy job of boxing products before shipping and having a rather ruthless approach to replacing the damaged gear, KNC has pretty much done everything they said they would, which puts them in rather rare company when it comes to mining equipment.

They made it pretty clear early on that they were going to be building a cloud hashing facility, and that Neptune would probably be their last consumer-grade mining product. Despite the constant bitching in this thread there is exactly zero data to show that they violated their miner protection guarantee during the period in which it was supposed to be relevant. Avenger hammers on endlessly about pseudo-facts like this and then just in the past day has rather hilariously ignored that the pie chart showed KNC with 5% of network hash power prior to the spike as Neptunes were being powered on and shipped.  That was actually what prompted me to post.

If you pre-ordered a Neptune thinking there was not going to be a huge difficulty rise then you were delusional, since at the time that orders first opened it looked as if Cointerra and HashFast were starting to ship in volume.  That they both performed below expectations and the difficulty rise happened anyway thanks to cheaper chicom stuff and various dedicated mining operations (to include KNC's) instead doesn't change the fact that buying a Neptune was a bet that difficulty wouldn't rise too much by the time they shipped. You could argue the Q1/Q2 thing but when someone tells you they'll ship somewhere in a six month range you'd be an idiot to put all your chips on it being early in that range. If you chose not to refund then you made your bed and can now lie in it. I see exactly nothing untrustworthy about a situation in which people are unhappy with the outcome of a gamble they freely engaged.

The people who have complained about refunds seem to either be ephemeral trolls or to simply be unable to figure out how to provide the correct information for an international wire transfer. As this is a situation that could be resolved with a phone call or a short trip to their bank I don't see how this is a trust issue for KNC.

It sounds like they finally found someone who can box things up based on Elenelen's report that the Neptune modules were well packed.

Arguably with 3.3Th/s of performance they have exceeded their threshhold by 10%, and power consumption seems to have come in below the level they stated, so while it's more a motto than anything else, they did in fact over-deliver.

Mine shipped today BTW (I had a late CA order#), and my plan remains the same. Play with it for a while and then probably sell it on eBay if it looks like they're selling for enough. Same for the second one that will show up sometime later. I may well end up with net negative monopoly money but c'est la vie.  I was the one who rolled the dice, not KNC - and I didn't play with money that I could not afford to lose. While I have it, I'm hoping for a decent owners thread since this thread is a train wreck of useless posts by people who neither own anything nor have ever ordered anything from KNC.

Oh one last thing, I think the bitching about the IRS ruling is idiotic. I mean idiotic in the technical sense because it actually opens up some interesting options. If you have to pay capital gains on Bitcoin then the cost basis for the BTC would be the miner plus the electricity. If you mine less BTC than the USD equivalent of your cost basis you've taken a capital loss, which offsets any capital gains in other areas (such investments in more conventional equities such as stocks).  If you achieve positive ROI then you'd owe taxes at the capital gains rate which should be lower than your income tax rate. Or maybe you try another approach and deduct costs for your "hobby business", which under IRS rules means you can deduct costs up to the amount of revenue the hobby business generated, so you could probably deduct the cost of the miner as an unreimbursed business expense up to the USD-equivalent value of the bitcoins you mined.  Since you'd be getting a deduction against your bracket tax rate rather than the lower capital gains rate, this might work out, and the B2B terms of the sales contract from KNC actually reinforce this if questioned by the IRS - you clearly bought it under a B2B arrangement.  Alternately, it is reasonable to straight line depreciate mining hardware to 0 over a very short period, as they are essentially worthless within a year. One could think of this as an extremely expensive machine tool head that cannot be resharpened.

nonsense.

KNC clearly scammed their customer by providing constant lies.

1. the promise not to compete against their own customer over 5% of the customers hash rate, as of this writing they currently mine over 9% of the total bitcoin network.

2. The promised refunds, they are delaying refunds so much, it is giving the impression that refunds have stopped, no one is known to have recently been refunded, and they are not being transparent at all.

3. The offered a free unconditional second neptune to discourage more refunds, that was not honored since the second neptuned is under the condition that you do not accept the offer to mine while you wait.

4. The were late on shipping, batch 0, 1 was supposed to be delivered 1 month before batch 2 and batch 2 was due on q1/q2, this did not happen. They where late.

5. They build a huge data center with customers money, money which was meant for the unique purpose of the construction of miners.

6. The offered new equipment, and super jupiter customers got defective used equipment, they were cleaning their data center to make room for the neptunes, but told the customers another well known story which was another scam.

7. They are violating EU law by not honoring refund within the 30 days that the law stipulates.

8. They sell a product which is a fire hazard, and more than one fire will occur it is a matter of time, they are pushing over 400 watts on a port that was designed for 150 watts, that is outright illegal, it violated UL and CE standards, and that is why their products are not certified for safety, it is not the excuse they tell customers in regards the power supply, all other mining companies ship a power supply with the miner.

9. They delete posts from their forum which are not on their best interest.

10. They are known for banning users for the same reason.

11. To prevent further refunds they started shipping before announcing final specs, and some customers that wanted refunds as of recent for miners that have not shipped could not get refunds since they have started the shipping process.

12. Some Neptunes delivered recently do not work.

13. They now claim their customers are businesses even though they do not operate as a business, have no business affiliations, and are clearly end users.

and I am sure other can point other things I may have missed, but what I mention above alone is enough to put KNC almost at the same level as BFL, they are outright crooks.

I have to point out that given enough time every crook meets its match, and it is bound to happen.

Dogies rating of mining companies have lost all of my respect, for rating a company that is scamming, and failing to  provide refunds as good, with a comment that they honor refund, and they are not honoring refunds based on evidence seen on this forum, redit, and their forum.
If I were to rate them it would be a D-.

Sam Cole are you listening, if you want to clean up your dignity now is your change, otherwise you are proving us that you have no dignity, it is not because  I  say it, it is your actions that define you.
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June 25, 2014, 06:14:26 AM
 #35918

Sam Cole are you listening, if you want to clean up your dignity now is your change, otherwise you are proving us that you have no dignity, it is not because  I  say it, it is your actions that define you.


This has already been proven and it will remain like this. Cheap Sam Cole will never turn towards the customers that helped him to be where he is today. KnC deserves to die just like Avalon did and it's time to move away from this company and from it's lying and deceiving managers.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
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June 25, 2014, 07:01:53 AM
 #35919

Finaly managed to get 3 boxes working out of the batch I had and now seem to find the following issues:

Lots of errors like
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.310 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.311 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.312 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.313 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.314 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.315 Failed to setwork (19)
 [2014-06-25 06:49:08] KnC: 3.0.316 Failed to setwork (19)

And hashrate drops to almost 400Ghash when running into a lot of hardware errors.

 [2014-06-25 06:50:01] KnC: 1.0.344 disabled for 300 seconds due to repeated hardware errors
 [2014-06-25 06:50:01] KnC: 1.0.349 Failed to setwork (99)
 [2014-06-25 06:50:01] KnC: 1.0.349 disabled for 300 seconds due to repeated hardware errors





Another thing I noticed is that these boxes seriously overload a multirail power supply on startup and causes the power supply to shut down even with enermax 1500W power supplies.
Already send in a report with KNC awaiting their response.
Very unhappy at this point


wasubii
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June 25, 2014, 07:25:16 AM
 #35920

If Sam Arsecole keep increasing his hashrate, Bitcoin will loose it creditbility and price will fall.
Good job Sam arsehole.

Bigger hashrate is good, lying own customers is bad.

If Sam Arsehole have 51% of the network,  it's all over.
I don't think that GREEDY bastard understand it.

Just because he is a greedy bastard he will not do something to disrupt bitcoin network.

I have $5095

Option A: buy 8.5 bitcoin today

Option B: buy a 6 TH/s miner with delivery in september that will mine back in its lifetime less than 5 bitcoin (and thats assuming it is delivered beginning of september). Oh, and you still have to pay for power and rewiring your house.

Please do enlighten us all and tell us how a buyer could go for option B and possibly be better off than option A? What is your magic secret?

I will cross post this (original post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg7480675#msg7480675)

This has been discussed so many times already. As stated before I think there is a small misconception about the bitcoin ROI. Buying and holding 9 bitcoins raises the question of when you exchange them back to fiat or what are you doing with them while mining gives you more options.The way I see it it this:

- Exchange rate doesn't move for 6-12 months:
         - Buying and holding makes 0 profit;
         - Mining will show a profit because there is less incentive to deploy new hashpower
- Exchange rate goes up (fast or slow):
         - Buying and holding will show a profit, but uncertain because of the moment of exchanging. Will you exchange at 1000$, 1200$, 1500$ and so on. If you exchange 3 bitcoin at 1000$ and next month you have a 1200$ rate then you lost some profit there, while mining tends to smooth a bit this;
         - Mining will always show a profit if exchange rate goes up. I realize that it will be smaller than buying and holding if the exchange rate will go up fast, but since nobody doesn't know the future I prefer the conservative way instead of the lotto way.

There you have it. Out of 4 possibilities only 3 will show a profit and 2 out of 3 are from mining. It's everyone's choice how he plans his financing. All ROI discussions sums up to the above for me and I feel that it's a very over discussed general subject.

Your whole answer is based on the premise of maximising fiat....

I want to maximise bitcoin

Therefore i ask again

Why buy a machine for 8.5 bitcoins that will likely never return 5 bitcoin (and thats before you take power/hosting costs into account)

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