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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3011559 times)
ur0pl
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August 15, 2013, 02:24:00 AM
 #5981

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

I am sure you could put the unit in a different case. But hey, I am just saying. I am putting mine in a milk crate
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August 15, 2013, 02:24:51 AM
 #5982

Cooling case material and appearance aside.  Here is the real issue.  These were supposed to be professional mining machines.  I have yet to see a 4U machine with an external power supply.  Further, in an average cabinet, where would you put said external power supply and be able to close the door?  Do we just have to eat rackspace and deal with cable management for 3cm bundles per machine?   Seems like a nightmare.  I have to be honest, I've got a fairly sizable order with them and at this point I'm debating asking for a refund and/or selling them.  Their product is starting to look more and more like the cobbled stacks of FPGA boards on stand-offs with fans zip tied to them and USB hubs taped everywhere, not that they're doing this, but it has the design and foresight of.

-1 KnC Miner.

They are not 4RU they are 200mm, they were not designed as rack mount devices. Most data center rack shelves are up to 900mm deep, lots of space for the miner and PSU.  If you can't deal with it, then you shouldn't be putting a mining rig in a data center the first place. These are not for amateurs, you probably don't even understand your insurance obligations.


Who permanently places equipment on shelves?  That's amateurish.  Maybe you should zip tie the PSU to the rail or stack them on stand offs.......

Also, so 5U not 4U...  the point is, what uses an external power supply that is supposed to be rackmounted other than 1U appliances?
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August 15, 2013, 02:36:38 AM
 #5983

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

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August 15, 2013, 02:38:36 AM
 #5984

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

no it actually is external, but what does it even matter right?
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August 15, 2013, 02:48:31 AM
 #5985

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

I have to agree - this is a reasonable position and I share the opinion. I don't see why they wouldn't have done a standard size case and included the PSU as an internal component. Especially with KNC having a hosting plan, it would have made more sense to keep the PSU as an internal component so they could run as densely as power and cooling will allow.

With that said, I don't have a sizable number of units so running a few at my house or letting KNC handle them won't be a problem. Not thrilled but I'm not on the cancel bandwagon either.

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August 15, 2013, 02:49:07 AM
 #5986

ask for the case dimensions. I am sure you could modify it if you dont like it.
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August 15, 2013, 02:51:14 AM
 #5987

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

They said multiple external 12V and a 5V connector.  The reason for lacking a power supply is an interesting loophole with the FCC or their respective counterparts in most countries.  If the device is without power supply its technically characterized as a "kit", which is fairly common in the amateur radio scene, and hence doesn't have to have FCC approval.  Its smart on KNC's part to not ship with a power supply, faster time to market, and I have no problem with buying a power supply.
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August 15, 2013, 02:58:24 AM
 #5988


Who permanently places equipment on shelves?  That's amateurish.  Maybe you should zip tie the PSU to the rail or stack them on stand offs.......

Also, so 5U not 4U...  the point is, what uses an external power supply that is supposed to be rackmounted other than 1U appliances?

The answer to the last question is that there is a fair bit of old school carrier grade telco equipment that uses external PSUs and whatnot. Aka, what Verizon installs for extending 2G/3G/4G (2G is still used for 911) in places where they have poor tower coverage.

However, we're in agreement. There seems to be little reason to have a case which cannot accommodate the PSU to be an internal component and allow for proper rail mounting and max density. If anything, I'd put this in the category of making things more difficult for KNC to sell to massive operations - it's annoying, but not necessarily a deal breaker. Maybe there's some other reason that I can't think of why they'd design the case as such - beats me though.

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August 15, 2013, 03:06:03 AM
 #5989



However, we're in agreement. There seems to be little reason to have a case which cannot accommodate the PSU to be an internal component and allow for proper rail mounting and max density. If anything, I'd put this in the category of making things more difficult for KNC to sell to massive operations - it's annoying, but not necessarily a deal breaker. Maybe there's some other reason that I can't think of why they'd design the case as such - beats me though.
There are good reasons not to have an internal PSU, additional expense, more heat to get rid off, and there is no problem convincing customs that it's not a mains power device that requires certification. If you need other cases, have them made and perhaps sell them on eBay as well. All the BFL models except the 500GH/s use external power supplies.

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August 15, 2013, 03:13:24 AM
 #5990


There are good reasons not to have an internal PSU, additional expense, more heat to get rid off, and there is no problem convincing customs that it's not a mains power device that requires certification. If you need other cases, have them made and perhaps sell them on eBay as well. All the BFL models except the 500GH/s use external power supplies.


[/quote]

- The cost savings between the slightly smaller case can't be all that significant - I bet that any standard configuration, ordered in bulk is <$50.
- A high quality (gold rated) PSU will generate little additional heat inside the case and is obviously easy enough to design for servers with far larger power requirements.
- Customs is either going to want to open the case and look inside or they aren't. I can't imagine the size of the case nor the amount of free space inside will convince them one way or another.
- yes, the components could be moved to a case, but that takes extra time and money that shouldn't be needed. All Avalon units allow for an internal PSU. Yeah, they got stuck in customs - no I have no idea whether this is part of the reason.

I don't buy those reasons as justification - I still see this as a less efficient way to run 100+ of these units in a large operation. For the small miner (myself included) it's no issue - it's the serious mining operations that won't be as thrilled.

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August 15, 2013, 03:31:00 AM
 #5991

- The cost savings between the slightly smaller case can't be all that significant - I bet that any standard configuration, ordered in bulk is <$50.
- A high quality (gold rated) PSU will generate little additional heat inside the case and is obviously easy enough to design for servers with far larger power requirements.
- Customs is either going to want to open the case and look inside or they aren't. I can't imagine the size of the case nor the amount of free space inside will convince them one way or another.

I don't buy those reasons as justification - I still see this as a less efficient way to run 100+ of these units in a large operation. For the small miner (myself included) it's no issue - it's the serious mining operations that won't be as thrilled.
Good, lets hope it impedes large 100+ operations, we don't need that kind of net hash concentration.

The case is already 400mm wide, a 19"rack is 450mm, where are you going to put an ATX PSU and all it's cables?
Putting a PSU inside the case has enormous effect on airflow, hence cooling. The way they have done it is clean, no cables in the air path, no PSU trying to divert the airstream with it's own fan. The case would have to be massive, and expensive, do we need another BFL Minirig?

Customs problems with Avalon units and internal PSU have had numerous reports, even mentioned on their site.


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August 15, 2013, 04:36:11 AM
 #5992

 If the device is without power supply its technically characterized as a "kit", which is fairly common in the amateur radio scene, and hence doesn't have to have FCC approval.  Its smart on KNC's part to not ship with a power supply, faster time to market, and I have no problem with buying a power supply.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation tried that with the Raspberry Pi. The Pi also has an external PSU sold separately. But the Pi was delayed due to CE approval.

http://www.techspot.com/news/48006-raspberry-pi-delayed-over-confusion-about-ce-approval.html

Quote
The Raspberry Pi computer has been further delayed after confusion surrounding whether the educational credit card sized computer needed European CE certification before it could be shipped to customers.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation explained on their blog that the two distributors, currently holding the first batch of around 2,000 units were "not willing" to deliver them until the model had passed European compliance testing to ensure they don’t emit excessively high levels of electromagnetic noise.

They also explained that "given the volumes involved and the demographic mix of likely users, any development board exemption is not applicable to us; as a result, even the first uncased developer units of Raspberry Pi will require a CE mark prior to sale in the EU."

When asked about whether this would affect orders for those outside of the European Union, Eben Upton, founder of the Raspberry Pi Foundation replied, "North America is out of the question (FCC requirements largely mirror CE ones), but there are areas of the world which are less strict."


I would hope that KnC has allocated time at SEMKO for EMC testing and compliance certification.
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August 15, 2013, 04:53:28 AM
 #5993

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

FSM FORBID they actually took into consideration other mining manufacturer's mistakes and preemptively circumvented them.

AMATEURS.

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August 15, 2013, 05:00:51 AM
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The Raspberry Pi Foundation tried that with the Raspberry Pi. The Pi also has an external PSU sold separately. But the Pi was delayed due to CE approval.

http://www.techspot.com/news/48006-raspberry-pi-delayed-over-confusion-about-ce-approval.html

The CE certification for the Raspberry Pi  board was a requirement of their distribution partners, not the EU.


http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/852


How many weeks did you say you wanted to delay shipping of the KNCminer products? I am not sure if all the other people here quite heard you.



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August 15, 2013, 06:12:05 AM
 #5995

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

FSM FORBID they actually took into consideration other mining manufacturer's mistakes and preemptively circumvented them.

AMATEURS.

They also dropped the ball on built in wifi or usb slots for wifi cards. Imagine if you have a few of them not in a data center the amount of wires needed, since you will need to be plugged into different outlets.
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August 15, 2013, 06:21:17 AM
 #5996

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!
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August 15, 2013, 06:30:53 AM
 #5997

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!

Just Show US the Asic Chips.
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August 15, 2013, 06:32:00 AM
 #5998

They also dropped the ball on built in wifi or usb slots for wifi cards. Imagine if you have a few of them not in a data center the amount of wires needed, since you will need to be plugged into different outlets.
Amount of wires? One ethernet cable per unit? I can assure you that terminating T568B ethernet RJ45 connectors is not near as difficult as setting up and successfully running even a single mining rig. And that's flat out assuming you didn't just spring for pre-terminated cables. (They're not that expensive and you've already proven to me you have the capability of shopping online)
And how would an internal vs external power supply in any way affect the NUMBER of power cables?
Unless I'm missing something, you're arguing that KNC choosing to NOT implement wifi is 'dropping the ball'

Great stride towards getting that Ignore button highlighted.

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August 15, 2013, 06:35:23 AM
 #5999

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!

+1 Amen to that
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August 15, 2013, 06:36:59 AM
 #6000

Actually, I retract my statement. I see your point, now.
I demand a refund! They obviously aren't implementing bluray drives, integrated UPS backup redundancies, or even a PANIC button!
Ball-dropping amateurs. Let's go pump our money into something less proven and less likely-to-produce.

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