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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006784 times)
JohnyBigs
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August 15, 2013, 06:39:50 AM
 #6001

They also dropped the ball on built in wifi or usb slots for wifi cards. Imagine if you have a few of them not in a data center the amount of wires needed, since you will need to be plugged into different outlets.
Amount of wires? One ethernet cable per unit? I can assure you that terminating T568B ethernet RJ45 connectors is not near as difficult as setting up and successfully running even a single mining rig. And that's flat out assuming you didn't just spring for pre-terminated cables. (They're not that expensive and you've already proven to me you have the capability of shopping online)
And how would an internal vs external power supply in any way affect the NUMBER of power cables?
Unless I'm missing something, you're arguing that KNC choosing to NOT implement wifi is 'dropping the ball'

Great stride towards getting that Ignore button highlighted.


If you have 6 units in different rooms your going to need wifi bridges which is not a problem would of just been easier if it was built in or you could just plug a wifi usb card in.

Unless you want cables running from one room all over your house
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JohnyBigs
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August 15, 2013, 06:42:05 AM
 #6002

Actually, I retract my statement. I see your point, now.
I demand a refund! They obviously aren't implementing bluray drives, integrated UPS backup redundancies, or even a PANIC button!
Ball-dropping amateurs. Let's go pump our money into something less proven and less likely-to-produce.

You can spin it however you want its still ball dropping, but please keep praising them blindly.
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August 15, 2013, 06:45:14 AM
 #6003

They also dropped the ball on built in wifi or usb slots for wifi cards. Imagine if you have a few of them not in a data center the amount of wires needed, since you will need to be plugged into different outlets.
Amount of wires? One ethernet cable per unit? I can assure you that terminating T568B ethernet RJ45 connectors is not near as difficult as setting up and successfully running even a single mining rig. And that's flat out assuming you didn't just spring for pre-terminated cables. (They're not that expensive and you've already proven to me you have the capability of shopping online)
And how would an internal vs external power supply in any way affect the NUMBER of power cables?
Unless I'm missing something, you're arguing that KNC choosing to NOT implement wifi is 'dropping the ball'

Great stride towards getting that Ignore button highlighted.


If you have 6 units in different rooms your going to need wifi bridges which is not a problem would of just been easier if it was built in or you could just plug a wifi usb card in.

Unless you want cables running from one room all over your house

I'm using a cheaper version of this:
http://www.netgear.com.au/home/products/powerline/

Add a 4 port hub and your set. Ive seen cheaper versions for about $60.
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August 15, 2013, 06:54:14 AM
 #6004

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

FSM FORBID they actually took into consideration other mining manufacturer's mistakes and preemptively circumvented them.

AMATEURS.

*cough* pictures of a box with fans, Pre-orders, no proof of working asic-prototype *cough*

SHEEPLE.

Plagiarize, let no one elses work evade your eyes.
Remember why the good lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes but plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize.
Only be sure always to call it please 'Alternative Coin'.
dropt
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August 15, 2013, 07:31:54 AM
 #6005

SHEEPLE.

kingcoin
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August 15, 2013, 07:36:56 AM
 #6006



The Raspberry Pi Foundation tried that with the Raspberry Pi. The Pi also has an external PSU sold separately. But the Pi was delayed due to CE approval.

http://www.techspot.com/news/48006-raspberry-pi-delayed-over-confusion-about-ce-approval.html

The CE certification for the Raspberry Pi  board was a requirement of their distribution partners, not the EU.


http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/852


How many weeks did you say you wanted to delay shipping of the KNCminer products? I am not sure if all the other people here quite heard you.





No the requirements are not set by the distributors. The requirements are set by the EU and the FCC and similar authorities. The distributors would not ditribibute the RPi because they did not want to get into trouble if the units would be stuck in customs, lawsuits if they caused fire, EMC disturbance, etc.

The ASUS motherboard I have in front of me right now has a CE marking even if it does not contain a power supply and only has an ATX connector.

Even if you sell only to business and not to consumers you need certification. You just have to comply with a different class of requirements (B vs A).

The RPi Foundation tried to define the unit as a research kit, but the distributors feared that it would not be accepted by the authorities as they were selling to mostly anybody, just like KnC.

Delays would be minimal if you just allocate time at SEMKO ahead of time when your first fully assembled unit arrive. If you have experience with EMC testing and requirements you should be able to pass the test. ORSoC AB should have experence in this field.

yeemartin
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August 15, 2013, 08:38:23 AM
 #6007

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!

Just Show US the Asic Chips.

no, they don't have chips now. Chips are on their way to KnC.




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August 15, 2013, 08:39:41 AM
 #6008

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

FSM FORBID they actually took into consideration other mining manufacturer's mistakes and preemptively circumvented them.

AMATEURS.

They also dropped the ball on built in wifi or usb slots for wifi cards. Imagine if you have a few of them not in a data center the amount of wires needed, since you will need to be plugged into different outlets.

I currently play around with this TP-Link mini-WiFi router:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280904946554?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The amazing things you can do with it, like turning it into a wireless bridge and then run an Ethernet switch off it. Wink

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eve
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August 15, 2013, 09:16:58 AM
 #6009

Honestly this forum is too full of cancer.   Everyone instantly attributes every statement as a scam or as FUD.  All I am saying is, why are more people not concerned with the fact this uses an external power supply?   I have _never_ seen a 4U in a data center with an external power supply.  Further it logistically does not work out with the design of most cabinets, unless you're planning on putting it in a 23" rack.  In any case, you sacrifice density, which means an increase in cost, as space isn't free.  I would also imagine the aesthetics of such an arrangement would not be appreciated by the host.
 

It's not external, it just doesn't come with it's own power supply.  This is likely due to customs reasons, as lots of Avalon customers has their units held up in europe due to their power supplies.  For batch 3 Avalon had an option of shipping without one. It also simplifies their supply chain.

FSM FORBID they actually took into consideration other mining manufacturer's mistakes and preemptively circumvented them.

AMATEURS.

*cough* pictures of a box with fans, Pre-orders, no proof of working asic-prototype *cough*

SHEEPLE.

The only thing missing is the Asic Chip, anything else is secondary. Show us the Asic Chips.
mtbitcoin
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August 15, 2013, 09:31:16 AM
 #6010

Did the upgrade option just expire for the Saturn->Jupiter? I thought this was only going to be removed tomorrow Friday or did they run into issues?

cheers

EtherScan::Ethereum Block Explorer | BlockScan::Coming Soon
HyperMega
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August 15, 2013, 09:32:08 AM
 #6011

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!

Just Show US the Asic Chips.

no, they don't have chips now. Chips are on their way to KnC.






Don't like to disappoint anybody here, but it's technically impossible that the chips are already on their way to KnC, if they did tape-out mid of July.
The wafers are still being processed in the 28nm fab. After that the wafers must be dieced to dies and put in the package, before it is a chip. They will not have chips in their hands before mid of September, earliest, in absolute best case with a perfect supply chain of several 3rd parties, which all have to give the KnC chips the highest priority.  
erk
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August 15, 2013, 09:51:08 AM
 #6012

Too many princesses in here. I don't care what it comes in, as long as it is able to hash then it's all good!

Just Show US the Asic Chips.

no, they don't have chips now. Chips are on their way to KnC.






Don't like to disappoint anybody here, but it's technically impossible that the chips are already on their way to KnC, if they did tape-out mid of July.
The wafers are still being processed in the 28nm fab. After that the wafers must be dieced to dies and put in the package, before it is a chip. They will not have chips in their hands before mid of September, earliest, in absolute best case with a perfect supply chain of several 3rd parties, which all have to give the KnC chips the highest priority.  

Reality doesn't matter, people here will still want to see the chips. I am quite sure that KNCminier will take pictures and tell us when they arrive, I mean they published case photos when it arrived.

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August 15, 2013, 10:03:44 AM
 #6013

I currently play around with this TP-Link mini-WiFi router:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280904946554?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

The amazing things you can do with it, like turning it into a wireless bridge and then run an Ethernet switch off it. Wink

Yes, and versions of it can mine at 80-100Gh/s!

Madazam
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August 15, 2013, 11:04:48 AM
 #6014

Did the upgrade option just expire for the Saturn->Jupiter? I thought this was only going to be removed tomorrow Friday or did they run into issues?

cheers

Wondering the same thing bro .....
greenbtc
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August 15, 2013, 11:11:10 AM
 #6015

Did the upgrade option just expire for the Saturn->Jupiter? I thought this was only going to be removed tomorrow Friday or did they run into issues?

cheers

Wondering the same thing bro .....

It's still listed on the site: https://www.kncminer.com/products/saturnjupiter-upgrade

Not sure if you're getting the error past that in the cart or not, though (didn't bother trying).
AFox
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August 15, 2013, 11:11:36 AM
 #6016

Did the upgrade option just expire for the Saturn->Jupiter? I thought this was only going to be removed tomorrow Friday or did they run into issues?

cheers
Actually, it wasn't removed, it was sold out.
Anyways, KNC put 50 more :

My lucky BTC address : 1LoTTerY3WYbGxVRHvh8oDudDdTxFvvqWF
erk
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August 15, 2013, 11:16:51 AM
 #6017

Did the upgrade option just expire for the Saturn->Jupiter? I thought this was only going to be removed tomorrow Friday or did they run into issues?

cheers
Actually, it wasn't removed, it was sold out.
Anyways, KNC put 50 more :

Upgrades use chips too, they have to take them from other allocations.

CMMPro
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August 15, 2013, 11:19:00 AM
 #6018

With this tight of a schedule they may not get the chips individually sent to their offices....if I were them they would go direct to the pcb/assembly and I would get the first few assembled boards sent for validation before authorizing the full run.

Why would you bring the chips, components, bare pcb's etc all to Sweden before sending them back to China, Taiwan or wherever for assembly?
You just lose time in transit that way and risk delays due to customs paperwork.

I seriously doubt they would bother with pcb assembly in Sweden when the pcb houses are the cheapest over there, assembly is cheapest there, components are a magnitude cheaper there. The final assembly into cases etc may be done in Sweden....that I would probably do locally.

My expectation is that by the time they have something to show us it will be video of the first boards hashing, then delivery will begin days after that.

Be patient in the meantime, we can start to act like nervous little girls by the end of Sept if they haven't shown anything by then.

erk
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August 15, 2013, 11:25:11 AM
 #6019

How is the power supply even an issue at this point, this companies been out for what 3-4 months now and has always stated that their product would come without a PSU.

People honestly thought they would have it so EVERYONE that ordered had to open up the case to put the PSU in?

So strange!
It was obvious from day one that the CAD drawings of the units on the order page didn't have the cutout for an ATX supply to be internal.
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August 15, 2013, 12:57:32 PM
 #6020

There are good reasons not to have an internal PSU, additional expense, more heat to get rid off, and there is no problem convincing customs that it's not a mains power device that requires certification. If you need other cases, have them made and perhaps sell them on eBay as well. All the BFL models except the 500GH/s use external power supplies.

- The cost savings between the slightly smaller case can't be all that significant - I bet that any standard configuration, ordered in bulk is <$50.
- A high quality (gold rated) PSU will generate little additional heat inside the case and is obviously easy enough to design for servers with far larger power requirements.
- Customs is either going to want to open the case and look inside or they aren't. I can't imagine the size of the case nor the amount of free space inside will convince them one way or another.
- yes, the components could be moved to a case, but that takes extra time and money that shouldn't be needed. All Avalon units allow for an internal PSU. Yeah, they got stuck in customs - no I have no idea whether this is part of the reason.

I don't buy those reasons as justification - I still see this as a less efficient way to run 100+ of these units in a large operation. For the small miner (myself included) it's no issue - it's the serious mining operations that won't be as thrilled.

Hey, let's be realistic: it's all about squeezing the revenue, rather than having nice and pretty boxes!
 
Someone about to run a 100+ unit operation certainly wouldn't give a sh*t about placement of the PSUs, as long as the machines gave him advantage in terms of hashing power/$ and hashing power/kW. These would be the only two qualities that mattered, really. Yeah, of course there are many important things like warranty, return policy, company transparency and its level of expertise in a field, but certainly not PSU placement!

And if there were actually big money involved in Bitcoin (which there isn't yet), we would be turning whole skycrapers into our custom datacenters rather than worrying about how would our units fit. The HFT guys are doing this already (start watching from 10:37 to get my point):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDaFwnOiKVE

Many thanks LightRider for bringing this eye-opening video to bitcointalk:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=32876.msg415446#msg415446

Mathematics is the Queen of all Sciences.

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