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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039472 times)
timmmers
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FUTURE OF SECURITY TOKENS


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August 17, 2013, 10:27:42 PM
 #6281

That BFL page has so many things to take the piss out of it's unreal.

I did however find something honest. "However, we aren't shipping anytime soon.  This is a Pre-Order product, so if you're uncomfortable waiting an indeterminate length of time for the final phase of development, do NOT pre-order this product."

Many previous customers will attest to the discomfort I'm sure.

Shame no-one can trust them, it's a great idea.

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August 17, 2013, 10:28:49 PM
 #6282

this isn't a BFL thread.  Tongue
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August 17, 2013, 10:31:52 PM
 #6283

this isn't a BFL thread.  Tongue

+1  Wink
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August 17, 2013, 11:15:09 PM
 #6284

You have missed my point. Somebody mentioned that KnC had no intentions on running test vectors on the chip tester. The hasher its great for generating coverage. That's what I meant by "free BIST" and signature analysis earlier. I've done similar things in the past, not with SHA's, but with CRC's. When you have this infrastructure on your device you should utilize it on the chip tester and detect the defects early and not after you have mounted the chips. And while you're at it do scan insertion and ATPG to increase you coverage further since catching errors and faults early is a lot cheaper than later in the product cycle.

I don't really see the point of testing without the PCB, since the PCB is only going to have one chip.  It's not like a motherboard where you have lots of expensive chips, or an Avalon module where you have lots of chips in parallel - you can think of the PCB as simply being a larger package for the chip.

And, it would be much simpler to test the PCB then to test the chip.  The chip itself has a 1mm ball pitch and thousands of balls.  Aligning it might take time, and it will generate a lot of heat in the tester (I guess you could test one engine at a time, though)

On the other hand the PCB has an edge connector (at least the demo ones they showed in the video) All you'd need to do is plug it into a slot to test.  Much easier and quicker.

So on the one had it might be slightly more expensive as you'd lose a PCB, but on the other hand you'd save time by not passing each chip through a second stage.

If their confident their yeilds will be high, they've got nothing to worry about. ORSoC has probably fab'd chips at this resolution before  and knows what to expect.  If their yeilds are high enough they can actually just assemble the units, then test them, and only replace PCBs that have a fault.

Remember they are selling these chips for about $1750 a pop, and delivery speed is the most critical thing for the customer. How much could the PCB ex-chip cost? $20?  Even if they threw out 2 PCBs for every shipped module it would barely eat into their margins (although I'm sure the low chip yeild would suck)

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August 17, 2013, 11:36:36 PM
 #6285

And, it would be much simpler to test the PCB then to test the chip.  The chip itself has a 1mm ball pitch and thousands of balls.  Aligning it might take time, and it will generate a lot of heat in the tester (I guess you could test one engine at a time, though)
(although I'm sure the low chip yeild would suck)

You do realise that the very same foundries making KNC's chips make other chips too? This is not rocket science (actually its far more high tech than that, but...), the industry is what 50 years old now? These problems were solved years ago (if BGA was untestable, it would never have made mainstream).

Just stop it please. The problem does not exist, people are doing this every day.

1Jest66T6Jw1gSVpvYpYLXR6qgnch6QYU1 NumberOfTheBeast ... go on, give it a try Grin
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August 18, 2013, 12:45:41 AM
 #6286

And, it would be much simpler to test the PCB then to test the chip.  The chip itself has a 1mm ball pitch and thousands of balls.  Aligning it might take time, and it will generate a lot of heat in the tester (I guess you could test one engine at a time, though)
(although I'm sure the low chip yeild would suck)

You do realise that the very same foundries making KNC's chips make other chips too? This is not rocket science (actually its far more high tech than that, but...), the industry is what 50 years old now? These problems were solved years ago (if BGA was untestable, it would never have made mainstream).

Just stop it please. The problem does not exist, people are doing this every day.

Um, yeah I agree that it's not a problem.  That's what I said. Did you get me confused with the other guy?

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August 18, 2013, 12:58:08 AM
 #6287

Have they shipped anything yet? Is this still a project development donation thread like it was from day one?

what are you talking about?

They seemed to be a replica of BFL when they started this thread. Their original shipping dates were in July, I think.
The first actual date they ever mentioned shipping was September 2013. They've affirmed a few times now that they are on track for that date.

They've taped out, they've shown picts of case and fan, they have PCB picts coming late next week, and they should be receiving chips within the next week or two, or at least their assemblers will be.

July was never on offer.

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August 18, 2013, 12:59:21 AM
 #6288


The first actual date they ever mentioned shipping was September 2013. They've affirmed a few times now that they are on track for that date.

They've taped out, they've shown picts of case and fan, they have PCB picts coming late next week, and they should be receiving chips within the next week or two, or at least their assemblers will be.

July was never on offer.

I think it is at the end of September though, so, like September 30th.
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August 18, 2013, 01:04:34 AM
Last edit: August 18, 2013, 10:13:00 AM by J35st3r
 #6289

Um, yeah I agree that it's not a problem.  That's what I said. Did you get me confused with the other guy?

Yeah, sorry, kingcoin was doing the concern trolling, but you did back him up with some of your comments there ...
Quote
I don't really see the point of testing without the PCB

Testing is what the semiconductor industry does. The cowboy days are long over (I hope, being out of the biz for two decades).

1Jest66T6Jw1gSVpvYpYLXR6qgnch6QYU1 NumberOfTheBeast ... go on, give it a try Grin
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August 18, 2013, 01:15:23 AM
 #6290

Just a little bit of info regarding KnC
They contact ckolivas and myself at the end of May regarding cgminer and related information.

They then stated that within July they'd be sending (in July) mock up devices (with an internal RPi) for us to work with on cgminer, then in September the real (faster) devices to tune cgminer to.

I have, however, heard nothing since, but no doubt expect to hear something soon.

I'll keep everyone posted if anything happens Smiley

Knc said that within July they were sending to Kano and Ckolivas mock up devices to work on cgminer implementation.

So, now we have passed a concrete deadline we can all verify.

Kano, did you receive the mock up device?

I sent a PM to Kano a few days ago. I asked if he had been in contact with him or CKolivas KNC

He answer this:






At this point the only "milestone" I am aware that they have missed is to provide Kano and Ckolivas with a mock-up device in July.  This may not be significant but it would have been nice for KNC to have updated Kano and Ckolivas.
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August 18, 2013, 01:20:26 AM
 #6291

I have a 1000 watt ballast I used to use to power a 1000 watt sodium light bulb.  You think that will work?

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August 18, 2013, 01:21:18 AM
 #6292

I have a 1000 watt ballast I used to use to power a 1000 watt sodium light bulb.  You think that will work?

lol.
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August 18, 2013, 01:39:38 AM
 #6293

I have a 1000 watt ballast I used to use to power a 1000 watt sodium light bulb.  You think that will work?

I think you forgot you weren't on www.rollitup.org when you asked this question.

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August 18, 2013, 01:58:46 AM
 #6294

have you seen this the Butterfly Labs Monarch
http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/
They're got to be joking... right???

I love this line in particular... "Nothing is more important than shipping your order as fast as possible."  Grin
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August 18, 2013, 02:01:13 AM
 #6295

At this point the only "milestone" I am aware that they have missed is to provide Kano and Ckolivas with a mock-up device in July.  This may not be significant but it would have been nice for KNC to have updated Kano and Ckolivas.
That's because they were going to use the 6gh FPGA miner as the prototypes for them to build CGminer or w/e on. Obviously they discontinued that but you guys are acting like they'd promised a jupiter back then. Jupiters hadn't even been mentioned at that point.

Plans change.

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August 18, 2013, 02:09:45 AM
 #6296

If sample boards comes out next week, then, does that mean they are ahead of schedule or behind schedule? What usually happens in the time line? where are we?
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August 18, 2013, 02:22:11 AM
 #6297

Did you guys listen to the latest Lets Talk Bitcoin?  They talk about how the ASIC makers collude with one another like a cartel.

1CTRG2ozX9ugneLeGjwDWDSNimpghTdLJm
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August 18, 2013, 02:33:32 AM
 #6298

Did you guys listen to the latest Lets Talk Bitcoin?  They talk about how the ASIC makers collude with one another like a cartel.

Of course they do, that's why they take pictures together and circle jerk eachother. You think if they were true competitors they would be all purple nurple friendly with eachother?

Hi Apple, Hi Microsoft can we hold hands and kiss? Hey get Linux in here we love eachother so much.

It doesn't matter though one or two members of the cartel will think about themselves and their business and truly compete and undercut their prices.
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August 18, 2013, 03:44:31 AM
Last edit: August 18, 2013, 04:03:52 AM by Phoenix1969
 #6299

If sample boards comes out next week, then, does that mean they are ahead of schedule or behind schedule? What usually happens in the time line? where are we?
I'm thinking the boards will already have chips mounted on them, which would mean production shortly after... but that's just me. I'm actually expecting some really good news... like shipping beginning the first week of September, nice, low wattage specs, and "Considerable" Gh/s gains. They do indeed have a track record now concerning the underpromise/overdeliver statement, and I'm lovin' it.


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August 18, 2013, 04:52:36 AM
 #6300

If sample boards comes out next week, then, does that mean they are ahead of schedule or behind schedule? What usually happens in the time line? where are we?
I'm thinking the boards will already have chips mounted on them, which would mean production shortly after... but that's just me. I'm actually expecting some really good news... like shipping beginning the first week of September, nice, low wattage specs, and "Considerable" Gh/s gains. They do indeed have a track record now concerning the underpromise/overdeliver statement, and I'm lovin' it.

I can only hope that is true. Customer service told me last month that upgrade option would last until the end of August, but it is the middle of August right now and they closed that option. So, they must be at least two weeks ahead of schedule towards shipping.
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