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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008709 times)
joae1975
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August 29, 2013, 04:30:39 PM
 #7641

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".
Please explain this graph.  What does it mean?

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August 29, 2013, 04:40:54 PM
 #7642

Bitfury at wall is around 1W/GH Source

KnC Max at wall is 1.6W/GH

Somehow I'm not seeing the 50% Sad
Bitfury is 0.8 J/Gh at wall according to 2 customers who have received their units. Quite exactly 50% of KnC (estimated) 1.6 J/Gh. That can change tho, if KnC does it's under promise, over deliver thing.

No No No
Bitfury is NOT still half KNC on Watts if they are getting HALF the expected Hashrate & delivering 2x as many boards to make up for it... So Bitfury's you must DOUBLE what they Spec.'d at. And now that they must deliver DOUBLE expected boards, you can expect delays
Each board turned out to do ~22.2 Gh/s instead of promised 25Gh/s. Happy days for starter kit orderers who got 2x22Gh instead of promised 25Gh. Still 0.8 J/Gh - 100% more efficient than KnC - no matter how many more boards they ship.
Great, go get a Rasberri Pi & order a Bitfury... Use Duct tape, Bubble gum and fishing line while assembling your overpromised, under-delivered,  POS monstrosity, and play. I'm staying right here, thank-you.

I'm pretty sure most here are willing to live with gear held together with bubble gum, duct tape or snot -- as long as it makes them money.  You, of course, are welcome to wait for the sexy raw aluminum box of fans. 
There's an old joke about NASA developing a pen that works in outer space, while the crude, clueless Russians used pencils.
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August 29, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
 #7643

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".

Let's hope their "margins upon margins" and "underpromise, overdeliver" also includes the shipping date. 

In the business world "shipping in October" means "we move the boxes closer to the door to our factory October 31st, maybe they'll get out the door in early November".  If they intended to ship mid-October they would have just said that.

I agree though, that unless something slows the difficulty, receiving your unit Nov 1 means taking a significant loss (probably at least 20%).

Maybe all this Avalon drama will put a dent in the difficulty, but doesn't seem too likely.
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August 29, 2013, 05:13:19 PM
 #7644

Great, go get a Rasberri Pi & order a Bitfury... Use Duct tape, Bubble gum and fishing line while assembling your overpromised, under-delivered,  POS monstrosity, and play. I'm staying right here, thank-you.
It's sad that the 25Gh overpromise turned into a 44Gh underdelivery.  Tongue
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August 29, 2013, 05:18:28 PM
 #7645

It's sad that the 25Gh overpromise turned into a 44Gh underdelivery.  Tongue

Yeah - really has me crying since I bought two August starter kits...
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August 29, 2013, 05:22:52 PM
 #7646

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".

Let's hope their "margins upon margins" and "underpromise, overdeliver" also includes the shipping date. 

In the business world "shipping in October" means "we move the boxes closer to the door to our factory October 31st, maybe they'll get out the door in early November".  If they intended to ship mid-October they would have just said that.

I agree though, that unless something slows the difficulty, receiving your unit Nov 1 means taking a significant loss (probably at least 20%).

Maybe all this Avalon drama will put a dent in the difficulty, but doesn't seem too likely.

Again with a useless spreadsheet. Stop spreading FUD with that utter bullshit. To get to that 37k TH where your equilibrium is you would need an additional ~350 000 in KNC's 28nm Chips.... Or 144 MILLION avalon Chips.  So PLEASE stop making spreadsheets if you have no idea how economics works.

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August 29, 2013, 05:27:55 PM
 #7647

"Uranus is next..."
I chose you.

My lucky BTC address : 1LoTTerY3WYbGxVRHvh8oDudDdTxFvvqWF
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August 29, 2013, 05:38:10 PM
 #7648

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".

Let's hope their "margins upon margins" and "underpromise, overdeliver" also includes the shipping date. 

In the business world "shipping in October" means "we move the boxes closer to the door to our factory October 31st, maybe they'll get out the door in early November".  If they intended to ship mid-October they would have just said that.

I agree though, that unless something slows the difficulty, receiving your unit Nov 1 means taking a significant loss (probably at least 20%).

Maybe all this Avalon drama will put a dent in the difficulty, but doesn't seem too likely.

Again with a useless spreadsheet. Stop spreading FUD with that utter bullshit. To get to that 37k TH where your equilibrium is you would need an additional ~350 000 in KNC's 28nm Chips.... Or 144 MILLION avalon Chips.  So PLEASE stop making spreadsheets if you have no idea how economics works.

I assume you didn't mean to address that reply to me (I didn't make the spreadsheet).

I believe you're saying that we can't just extrapolate an exponential curve and expect that to be an accurate model indefinitely.  I agree with you there.  The question is when will that model break down?

The equilibrium is late April, that's almost 8 months away.  There is a lot of speed improvements that can happen between now and then (which would reduce the number of chips needed to reach 37k TH). 

I could totally believe that it's still unrealistic, but I'd be interested to see some numbers to back that up (like how much faster chips are likely to get between now and then, for the same price)
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August 29, 2013, 05:43:24 PM
 #7649

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".
Please explain this graph.  What does it mean?

The point is just that the longer that they take to ship, the longer for the ROI.  If it ships quick, ROI could be weeks or a month, if it ships just a month later, it could take 3-4 months for ROI, so a short delay equals an exponentially longer ROI, or negative ROI.
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August 29, 2013, 06:08:55 PM
 #7650

Yes, the "Paperclip trick" need be employed when not using the MB plug, which sends the on/off signal. Example...On Corsair Power Supplies, you jumper the green pin & any black pin on the 24 pin MB connector.
A paperclip isn't professional, trust me Wink
Just use one of these : http://www.amazon.com/Pin-SATA-Power-Supply-Tester-Black/dp/B00AZZR30A/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377771843&sr=1-1&keywords=power+supply+tester
It will turn on the power supply and will warn you if the PSU has a problem.

+1 - Excellent Idea

I just hope that between the hash unit


And SO-DIMM


Let's have something like this. To directly connect our 24P ATX connector.


I seem unprofessional the jumpers on a power supply of 850-1000w

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August 29, 2013, 06:22:46 PM
 #7651

 I asked KNC about this and about there power specs, my questions and answers
" Couple quick questions.  Will we have to trick the power supply to turn on buy jumping the right pins?  Or will there be another solution for this?    Also the 1.6 W/GH/s  is this the average power consumption including all the fans and the Linux board?  Or is this just the consumption for the chip?  And is the 1.6 number just another safe maximum number to give  out?  And might be lower in the end product?  or is it fairly accurate?  And the miners should be at just that?

There response
"
Hi,

 

It will be necessary to trick the power supply to turn on by jumping the right pins. We are looking at possible solutions for this and we will provide more information as soon as possible. The 1.6W/GH/s is the maximal power consumption of the entire device, it is possible that it would be slightly lower.

 

Let us know if you have further questions.

 

Med vänlig hälsning  |  Best regardsKeith Gurnett  Kncminer 

Yes, the "Paperclip trick" need be employed when not using the MB plug, which sends the on/off signal. Example...On Corsair Power Supplies, you jumper the green pin & any black pin on the 24 pin MB connector.
A paperclip isn't professional, trust me Wink
Just use one of these : http://www.amazon.com/Pin-SATA-Power-Supply-Tester-Black/dp/B00AZZR30A/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377771843&sr=1-1&keywords=power+supply+tester
It will turn on the power supply and will warn you if the PSU has a problem.

+1 - Excellent Idea

I just hope that between the hash unit


And SO-DIMM


Let's have something like this. To directly connect our 24P ATX connector.


I seem unprofessional the jumpers on a power supply of 850-1000w


_HashFast Technologies_28 nm mining
Producer of High Performance ASICS
BabyJets & Sierras On Sale today!
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August 29, 2013, 06:28:08 PM
 #7652

"These are the good old days."



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DeathAndTaxes
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August 29, 2013, 06:28:49 PM
 #7653

According to KNC their efficiency is below 1.6 W/GH/s.
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-31

Per the break even thread ...
Lowered estimate for KNC to 1.8 J/GH at the wall.  It is unclear what the reported 1.6 J/GH refers to.  I have asked KNC for a clarification but they haven't responded yet.  The break even difficulty is based on wattage "at the wall" (120V/230V measured/estimated at the plug).

If 1.6 J/GH refers to the ...
... system efficiency at the wall (AC load) then efficiency in table should be 1.6 J/GH.
... system total DC load then efficiency in the table should be 1.8 J/GH.
... ASIC boards (chips + DC PSU) but excludes the fans, controller, and ATX PSU then efficiency in the table should be 1.9 J/GH.
... ASIC chips and excludes the DC to DC supply, fans, controllers, and ATX PSU then efficiency in the table should be 2.0 J/GH.

I feel the second scenario is the most likely so the table reflects that until more information is available. 

On edit: KNC supporters you can stop PM me.  I will change the table when either KNC confirms the "at the wall" efficiency or we have user provided benchmarks in the field.  If you want it updated, ask KNC to provide clarification.
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August 29, 2013, 06:48:22 PM
 #7654

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".

Let's hope their "margins upon margins" and "underpromise, overdeliver" also includes the shipping date.  

In the business world "shipping in October" means "we move the boxes closer to the door to our factory October 31st, maybe they'll get out the door in early November".  If they intended to ship mid-October they would have just said that.

I agree though, that unless something slows the difficulty, receiving your unit Nov 1 means taking a significant loss (probably at least 20%).

Maybe all this Avalon drama will put a dent in the difficulty, but doesn't seem too likely.

Again with a useless spreadsheet. Stop spreading FUD with that utter bullshit. To get to that 37k TH where your equilibrium is you would need an additional ~350 000 in KNC's 28nm Chips.... Or 144 MILLION avalon Chips.  So PLEASE stop making spreadsheets if you have no idea how economics works.


Mota I have noticed a interesting pattern with you where you seem to show up blow open you big Mouth and talk crap every time someone post a question or post about difficulty..  Makes me wonder who you really are and what you are really doing here.  Reminds me of some of those shrills over at the BFL forums that would swoop down and try and destroy ANYONE that sad ANYTHING the least bit negative..

Give it a rest dude, your too obvious..  That and that you have no clue what your actually talking about.. Crawl back in your hole.

Mind Blown.

joae1975
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August 29, 2013, 06:53:37 PM
 #7655

Only for your anxiety, I've updated my numbers a bit!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgSa2BKZz0WudHVlQVc0NmNVaXJEUHdLS090dWptSEE&usp=sharing

15th of October - at this increase rate - seems to be the "deadline".
Please explain this graph.  What does it mean?

The point is just that the longer that they take to ship, the longer for the ROI.  If it ships quick, ROI could be weeks or a month, if it ships just a month later, it could take 3-4 months for ROI, so a short delay equals an exponentially longer ROI, or negative ROI.
Okay, so "according to this doc" if you're not hashing by Oct. 15th, you're fucked.  And everyone should stop hashing around May '14.  Yeah, it's pretty dumb, I hope it's wrong.

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Hell?


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August 29, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
 #7656

Hey there, just a heads up i changed my username. i wanted something better than Keenan84. lol

thanks for your time!
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August 29, 2013, 07:00:04 PM
 #7657

Quote
It will be necessary to trick the power supply to turn on by jumping the right pins. We are looking at possible solutions for this and we will provide more information as soon as possible.

Just type "ATX Bridging Plug" into ebay, loads of them for about $2 bit safer than the paperclip trick.

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August 29, 2013, 07:09:24 PM
 #7658

I would go Bitfury mate, sorry...
EVEN NOW I would prefer October BF than October KnC because a chip exists 100%.

EDIT: BTW missed both these trains, oh well...

Klee I don't understand your beef. If you still have an order as you claim, and you are unhappy, go ask for your refund.

Why continue tormenting yourself, when you clearly aren't confident?
No orders with anyone thank God (as it turned out to be). Only stock trading!
What's the beef, upset? No worries, you have plenty of time until 10 October Wink
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August 29, 2013, 07:10:35 PM
 #7659

I would go Bitfury mate, sorry...
EVEN NOW I would prefer October BF than October KnC because a chip exists 100%.

EDIT: BTW missed both these trains, oh well...

Klee I don't understand your beef. If you still have an order as you claim, and you are unhappy, go ask for your refund.

Why continue tormenting yourself, when you clearly aren't confident?
No orders with anyone thank God (as it turned out to be). Only stock trading!
What's the beef, upset? No worries, you have plenty of time until 10 October Wink

Lol, i'm cool bud. No worries. Tongue

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August 29, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
 #7660

Competition ended!

The competition has now ended.
We would like to thank you for all creative entries and we will present the winning phrase shortly.

Thanks,
KnCMiner  team.

Best regards

Kncminer

kncminer.com
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