Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[CYPER]

Spent half a day reading 200-240 pages and just finished.

Not going to ask any stupid questions like some of the guys here   but will continue to follow the topic for future updates as I'm really interesed in investing in 2 Jupiter miners

I just have one question and I hope it's not very stupid: Why the Xcrowd Pavonis (the 1st i the list) has negative ROI (in BTC) with contant 17% and 20% increase in difficulty and Jupiter/Saturn/Mercury don't?
So basically it shows that the Xcrowd Pavonis will lose 1.48BTC in 1 year if difficulty rises 20% every 2 weeks for the same period of 1 year, right?

The chart doesn't specify if it calculates power costs too.

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[Henchman24]

Why the Xcrowd Pavonis (the 1st i the list) has negative ROI (in BTC) with contant 17% and 20% increase in difficulty and Jupiter/Saturn/Mercury don't?

It's due to the lead time.  Difficulty will be much higher in December.

[titomane]

Just a little bit of info regarding KnC
They contact ckolivas and myself at the end of May regarding cgminer and related information.

They then stated that within July they'd be sending (in July) mock up devices (with an internal RPi) for us to work with on cgminer, then in September the real (faster) devices to tune cgminer to.

I have, however, heard nothing since, but no doubt expect to hear something soon.

I'll keep everyone posted if anything happens

Knc said that within July they were sending to Kano and Ckolivas mock up devices to work on cgminer implementation.

So, now we have passed a concrete deadline we can all verify.

Kano, did you receive the mock up device?

I sent a PM to Kano a few days ago. I asked if he had been in contact with him or CKolivas KNC

He answer this:

[pyra-proxy]

Why the Xcrowd Pavonis (the 1st i the list) has negative ROI (in BTC) with contant 17% and 20% increase in difficulty and Jupiter/Saturn/Mercury don't?

It's due to the lead time.  Difficulty will be much higher in December.

I'd be really surprised if we see 20% difficulty increase every 2 weeks for the next year though....  If that happens then ASICS were way oversold and that will hurt the ability for next generation ASICS to be produced profitably for quite some time.  As big GPU/FPGA farms are moving to alts/shutting down there will be a little relief in the expansion of hashing power but ultimately there will be a price point where general global cost of electric vs. current asic efficiency which will not likely be exceeded (unless the market was way oversold, which will cause some - particularly late comers to never get ROI on their investments).  KNC is nice because their estimated max efficiency rate is quite a bit lower than currently shipping competitors so that keeps KNC miners in the game for longer.

[cypherdoc]

Just a little bit of info regarding KnC
They contact ckolivas and myself at the end of May regarding cgminer and related information.

They then stated that within July they'd be sending (in July) mock up devices (with an internal RPi) for us to work with on cgminer, then in September the real (faster) devices to tune cgminer to.

I have, however, heard nothing since, but no doubt expect to hear something soon.

I'll keep everyone posted if anything happens

Knc said that within July they were sending to Kano and Ckolivas mock up devices to work on cgminer implementation.

So, now we have passed a concrete deadline we can all verify.

Kano, did you receive the mock up device?

Send a PM to Kano a few days ago. I asked if he had been in contact with him or CKolivas KNC

He answer "NO"

it's early but the Utah couple is supposed to get a KNC miner also this month.

[WastedLTC]

Has anyone asked or know if the hosted KNC pool will be doing NMC merged mining?   These should produce a solid amount of namecoins.

Don't know, they plan to do a multi alt-currency machine with memory for scrypt etc. at some point in the future after these Bitcoin ASICs are in the wild, so I dare say their pool will grow to accommodate, not sure if it will be in the immediate future, but if they do go multi-currency then they will want to make their pool attractive.

quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namecoin:
 

Namecoin is merge mined with Bitcoin, which means that a node can mine for both Namecoin and Bitcoin simultaneously at the same rate that they would mine just one.

Email them and suggest it. Let us know pls...

sure it seems a good thing to do, but I believe that it's up to @FeedbackLoop to do it since he raised the quest in the first place. I just wanna said that namecoin is SHA-256 based, again quoting wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency) :

SHA-256 proof-of-work. Namecoin is meant to act as a decentralized DNS, which would make internet censorship very difficult. Namecoin serves the .bit domain.

If you want something in life, ask for it. Kindly.

I thought more of you knew about merge mining.  This allows NMC's network to be secured rather than requiring miners to target NMC specifically.  This is why namecoin always shows up as one of the worst coins to mine at a current profitability rate of 3.40% compared to mining BTC. Since you are not dedicating your hashing power to the coin, 3.40% is great free coins.

Namecoin is not directly mined solo but usually merge-mined with bitcoin and devcoin. Most mining pools merge mine these cryptocurrencies as it allows for a little extra profit. Currently 3-5% extra compared to only mining Bitcoin.

Off the top of my head, BitMinter.com does merge mining..   Getting an extra 3-5% is huge and if the KNC pool doesn't offer it. I'll have to opt out of that pool.  I'll ask KNC and Byteminr.com.

[Bitcoinorama]

Has anyone asked or know if the hosted KNC pool will be doing NMC merged mining?   These should produce a solid amount of namecoins.

Don't know, they plan to do a multi alt-currency machine with memory for scrypt etc. at some point in the future after these Bitcoin ASICs are in the wild, so I dare say their pool will grow to accommodate, not sure if it will be in the immediate future, but if they do go multi-currency then they will want to make their pool attractive.

quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namecoin:
 

Namecoin is merge mined with Bitcoin, which means that a node can mine for both Namecoin and Bitcoin simultaneously at the same rate that they would mine just one.

Email them and suggest it. Let us know pls...

sure it seems a good thing to do, but I believe that it's up to @FeedbackLoop to do it since he raised the quest in the first place. I just wanna said that namecoin is SHA-256 based, again quoting wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency) :

SHA-256 proof-of-work. Namecoin is meant to act as a decentralized DNS, which would make internet censorship very difficult. Namecoin serves the .bit domain.

If you want something in life, ask for it. Kindly.

I thought more of you knew about merge mining.  This allows NMC's network to be secured rather than requiring miners to target NMC specifically.  This is why namecoin always shows up as one of the worst coins to mine at a current profitability rate of 3.40% compared to mining BTC. Since you are not dedicating your hashing power to the coin, 3.40% is great free coins.

Namecoin is not directly mined solo but usually merge-mined with bitcoin and devcoin. Most mining pools merge mine these cryptocurrencies as it allows for a little extra profit. Currently 3-5% extra compared to only mining Bitcoin.

Off the top of my head, BitMinter.com does merge mining..   Getting an extra 3-5% is huge and if the KNC pool doesn't offer it. I'll have to opt out of that pool.  I'll ask KNC and Byteminr.com.

Sounds like a great idea, especially as they said they wanted to maximise our ROI. I'm sure they'd consider it if it makes their offering more attractive...

[FeedbackLoop]

sure it seems a good thing to do, but I believe that it's up to @FeedbackLoop to do it since he raised the quest in the first place. I just wanna said that namecoin is SHA-256 based, again quoting wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency) :

"@FeedbackLoop" did not raise the quest @WastedLTC raised the quest and @FeedbackLoop told him about the poll KNC did regarding alt coins. That said @FeedbackLoop would of course be interested in namecoin merged mining but he does not understand enough about the subject.

Pity to hear about the missed "Kano deadline". 

[Bitcoinorama]

sure it seems a good thing to do, but I believe that it's up to @FeedbackLoop to do it since he raised the quest in the first place. I just wanna said that namecoin is SHA-256 based, again quoting wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency) :

"@FeedbackLoop" did not raise the quest @WastedLTC raised the quest and @FeedbackLoop told him about the poll KNC did regarding alt coins. That said @FeedbackLoop would of course be interested in namecoin merged mining but he does not understand enough about the subject.

Pity to hear about the missed "Kano deadline". 

What missed deadline?! There wasn't one, he get's a unit once chips are in hand.

[FeedbackLoop]

sure it seems a good thing to do, but I believe that it's up to @FeedbackLoop to do it since he raised the quest in the first place. I just wanna said that namecoin is SHA-256 based, again quoting wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency) :

"@FeedbackLoop" did not raise the quest @WastedLTC raised the quest and @FeedbackLoop told him about the poll KNC did regarding alt coins. That said @FeedbackLoop would of course be interested in namecoin merged mining but he does not understand enough about the subject.

Pity to hear about the missed "Kano deadline". 

What missed deadline?! There wasn't one, he get's a unit once chips are in hand.

OK, you are right. Sorry for phrasing it as deadline, even with the quotes.

[eraziel]

Let's just say that things aren't progressing at the rate they were anticipating since they would have shipped the mock-up devices already.

[Gyrsur]

Let's just say that things aren't progressing at the rate they were anticipating since they would have shipped the mock-up devices already.

this fact would explane why they met a BFL representative to get a feeling of what they can expect from the crowd, wouldn't it? 

[Bitcoinorama]

Let's just say that things aren't progressing at the rate they were anticipating since they would have shipped the mock-up devices already.

BS!

[Ytterbium]

Regarding Namecoin mining: with merged mining you don't need to do anything special with the hardware - it's all done for you by the mining pool. The KnC should work with NMC without them doing anything at all (other then with their own hosted pool)

___
Reading the google translate from that Russian thread with the BFL/KnC pic is pretty funny:

Кaк тo aж cпoкoйнee нa дyшe cтaлo, нe cкopo КHCы ycтpoйcтвa poдят, xoть oт ниx cлoжнocть нe бyдeт pacти, paзвe чтo чepeз гoд

How much quieter then my heart was not KNSy device will give birth soon, though the complexity of them will not grow, except that in a year

That guy's avatar is a sphere made from spinning pot leaves.

ЗЫ. тoжe гoвopю кaк юpиcт, в плюce бyдyт тoлькo юpиcты.

Threat. also speak as a lawyer in the black will only lawyers.

[eraziel]

Let's just say that things aren't progressing at the rate they were anticipating since they would have shipped the mock-up devices already.

BS!

Care to elaborate why is it bs exactly?
Are you in possession of some super-secret information that we don't have that has led you to believe they are on schedule?

Fact is that there has been no information in their newsletters about how the development is progressing for quite a while now and the only milestone visible to the community was the delivery of mock-up devices for the cgminer devs to start implementing support for knc devices. And that one is now behind schedule.

[Ytterbium]

Well, once the chips are off to the fabs, there isn't really that much for an IC company to do except sit around and wait for a couple months.

I think the prototypes they were supposed to ship were going to be Mars devices, presumably using a similar interface/protocol to the planned ICs. Since they decided to cancel mars they'd have nothing to ship except the single prototype they apparently made.

[Bitcoinorama]

Let's just say that things aren't progressing at the rate they were anticipating since they would have shipped the mock-up devices already.

BS!

Care to elaborate why is it bs exactly?
Are you in possession of some super-secret information that we don't have that has led you to believe they are on schedule?

Fact is that there has been no information in their newsletters about how the development is progressing for quite a while now and the only milestone visible to the community was the delivery of mock-up devices for the cgminer devs to start implementing support for knc devices. And that one is now behind schedule.

Behind whose schedule?! You're assuming thing based without fact. KnC have said themselves they are on track and they aim to send CGminer a box in Sept once they get the chips.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237114.msg2507772#msg2507772

"Sam: Yup, we've contacted the major developers, they're on board, they're gonna be given our boxes over the summer that will be functionally identical apart from performance. And then when the chips arrive in September then they will be given the boxes appropriate for testing on.

Me: Is there a reason...is that ah...ip reason that you don't want them to see such things as...

Sam: No, no, no, basically we want to give to them a box that looks identical, to Jupiter, behaves identically in every single way apart from hashing speed. So, they can get their interface, they can get their code inside, they can get their automatic firmware (unknown word? - poor audio) processes working with us, they can do all that kind of stuff, and then we'll be using that for product stuff, like airflow, cooling and other things. And then when the chips do arrive, we will put two chips in the right board, and send them out to them as well. But we don't want to...

Marcus: So we order... (something I can't make out as Sam speaks again – he's physically closer, so louder)

Sam: Exactly

Marcus: ...we've all ready got the surrounding components, power, dcdc modules, the on chip linux software, all that is already developed, tested, ready to go.

But obviously we need their code to work on the box as soon as it's delivered. I mean, it's unfair to ship out a hundred boxes and say, “Sorry guys, you need to wait for CGMiner  to finish”, so they can do all their testing with the other boxes first."

[eraziel]

So where are the "identical but less-powerful" boxes that should have been delivered "over the summer" which September does not fit into...
Pretty much as things are going right now exactly what's stated in that discussion will happen - devices might ship but will not be supported as the devs wouldn't have had enough time to implement support in the miner...

[Bitcoinorama]

So where are the "identical but less-powerful" boxes that should have been delivered "over the summer" which September does not fit into...
Pretty much as things are going right now exactly what's stated in that discussion will happen - devices might ship but will not be supported as the devs wouldn't have had enough time to implement support in the miner...

Ask them?! Jeez man send an email if you're that concerned. Let the rest of us know instead of whining on the forum trying to stir the pot.

[eraziel]

I'm certainly hoping they deliver on time and do it in a professional manner so that we can forget about BFL and Avalon. Nothing that I'd like more than that. As many others on this forum, I suppose.