Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Bitcoinorama]

On a serious note though; what's the latest on KNC's progress?

Does the October shipping date seem likely?

We have no reason to believe they won't hit their ship-date at this point. The only evidence we have that they will is their claim that they are on time with everything so far.

Yes that is true, but for that kind of project they are really quiet about their project schedule. (Yes, I know: "The competitors!" )

They communicated only one concrete milestone
"Start of delivery: end of September (latest 30th September)"

(Tape-Out done "some time ago" does not count as a concrete milestone. What does "some time ago" mean? 2 minutes? )

They stated several times that they are on track for the September target. But anything else until then will be a black box.
So you have to trust them and they have to trust several 3rd parties that they deliver on time.
There are some quite complex manufacturing steps (besides pure 28nm wafer manufacturing) which have to be first time right to meet the target, which are not completely under their control.

Does not feel really comfortable, but it is probably the only thing you will get until end of September.

Just seems a bit odd that they are going to start delivery in less than 2 months, but all they have on the site are a few sketchup drawings of what the box might look like.

Their products tick all the boxes and I'd love to get a hold of a Jupiter, but i think I'm going to wait until delivery starts and just be a bit behind.

Dave, there's nothing odd about it, unless you haven't read up on why that is. Once in a while we get a newbie stating something of that effect in all these new ASIC manufacturer's threads, but sketchups or fully cad rendered pretty pics, they're all the same as the products are being developed in a race against eachother to market. The only place you'll see anything more is in Avalon, BFL or ASICminer threads, the rest are 'artists impressions' until we see something of substance from somewhere. It's a PCB board and some chips, it requires nothing more than a sketchup, be more wary of pretty CAD, and nothing else behind it as housing for these boxes are the last things you need to consider. Speak to Butterfly Labs about that, they learn't that the hard way

[Bitcoinorama]

When can we realistically expect to see a prototype running?

It seems like its time for a significant update from KnC to include a more definitive timeline with specific milestones -- the way difficulty is going, Sept. 1 is a lot different from Sept. 30.

I'm hoping KnC continues to set the bar high with regard to customer communication.

When the chips come back from the fab, it's out of their hands till then. If you've followed BFL or Amazon, or anyone else that's done this before you should be well accustomed to their lead times. When they do have something to say there will be a flurry of info. Till then it's a waiting game, as you well know it is...

[Nemo1024]

When the chips come back from the fab, it's out of their hands till then. If you've followed BFL or Amazon, or anyone else that's done this before you should be well accustomed to their lead times. When they do have something to say there will be a flurry of info. Till then it's a waiting game, as you well know it is...

Amazon is now into mining 

[Bitcoinorama]

When the chips come back from the fab, it's out of their hands till then. If you've followed BFL or Amazon, or anyone else that's done this before you should be well accustomed to their lead times. When they do have something to say there will be a flurry of info. Till then it's a waiting game, as you well know it is...

Amazon is now into mining 

Pahaha Apple's spellcheck strikes again!! Well spotted, I spend more time rectifying that spellcheck then I do typing.

[dwdoc]

Can I buy stuff from Bezos at Avalon.com now?

[nightengale]

...It's a PCB board and some chips...

Then if everything is on track, when can we realistically expect to see a prototype board and chips hashing? Unless KnC is running significantly behind, or even ahead of schedule, this is not an unreasonable request...

[dwdoc]

Good luck.  It took about 100 forum posts just for them to admit they are post tape-out.

[nightengale]

After having been a newbie victim of BFL, I was thankfully able to sell my preorder. I then ordered some loose chips via one of the Avalon group buys... Their chips were a proven technology, already out there in the wild, all they had to do was tape out and ship them, right? ... and now those are running 5 weeks late with ROI disappearing and Yifu has gone incommunicado.

Somewhere between jittery and downright paranoid describes my ASIC state of mind right now -- I think there are a lot of KnC customers coming from similar situations. KnC could do themselves a world of good by treading lightly on those who have invested a fair amount of money in their success. We still assume they are on track for a timely delivery, but a little reassurance couldn't hurt.

[dave111223]

...It's a PCB board and some chips...

Then if everything is on track, when can we realistically expect to see a prototype board and chips hashing? Unless KnC is running significantly behind, or even ahead of schedule, this is not an unreasonable request...

Reading about kncminer:

Plug and play

The idea behind these boxes is to make them as simple as possible to run, he says. Closer to the shipment date, he plans to contact customers in the queue, and ask them for details including a bitcoin address. KnCMiner will then configure each device to sent bits automatically to that address when mining. It would also test each device against that wallet with those details. “Then you ship the device to them, and they plug it in, and turn it on, and walk away,” he says.

http://www.coindesk.com/a-look-inside-kncminer/

As such I would consider it more than just boards and chips, it takes time to just source simple items like cases, fans, heat syns and PSU correctly sized and in volume.  One would think if you were just waiting for chips to arrive and then be doing assembly and shipping within 2 months you'd already have some cases sitting waiting no?

I know that companies like BFL have gone too far the other way, spending mass effort on 3d rendered mockups, custom cases, even custom printed packing boxes...but KNC seems to the other end of the spectrum.

[robix]

...

Somewhere between jittery and downright paranoid describes my ASIC state of mind right now -- I think there are a lot of KnC customers coming from similar situations. KnC could do themselves a world of good by treading lightly on those who have invested a fair amount of money in their success. We still assume they are on track for a timely delivery, but a little reassurance couldn't hurt.

+1

[creativex]

Once these vendors get the pre-order money flowing they stop communicating in any meaningful way(or outright lying). This has been the case with bfl, avalon, & btcfpga...only time will tell if knc will be any different.

[Minor Miner]

Well ... actually ... you should hear from ckolivas and myself well before the end of September ... unless ... hmm
... still no reply from them to the last email ... 4.5 days ago ...

But we cannot trust Kano because he was the guy that kept accusing yifu of mining with batch II and we all know that Yifu said he was shipping next week back in May and there was NO WAY yifu would do that to all of us....
oh wait.   Now I remember why i read kano's posts.

[Minor Miner]

On a serious note though; what's the latest on KNC's progress?
Does the October shipping date seem likely?

We have no reason to believe they won't hit their ship-date at this point. The only evidence we have that they will is their claim that they are on time with everything so far.

Yes that is true, but for that kind of project they are really quiet about their project schedule. (Yes, I know: "The competitors!" )

You seem pretty smart.   Can you tell me what possibly a competitor could do by knowing that you have finished your tape out?   How would that help them do anything?   Or that you have populated your board and are testing?   What would that information do for a competitor?   Would it help them get their design done faster?   Would it help them test their design?   Would it help them move up in the line at the foundry?
"competitors":  Everytime I read that I think "LIARS".  "BULLSHITTERS"

[Bitcoinorama]

...It's a PCB board and some chips...

Then if everything is on track, when can we realistically expect to see a prototype board and chips hashing? Unless KnC is running significantly behind, or even ahead of schedule, this is not an unreasonable request...

Sometime in September, this was said at the open day.

[Bitcoinorama]

On a serious note though; what's the latest on KNC's progress?
Does the October shipping date seem likely?

We have no reason to believe they won't hit their ship-date at this point. The only evidence we have that they will is their claim that they are on time with everything so far.

Yes that is true, but for that kind of project they are really quiet about their project schedule. (Yes, I know: "The competitors!" )

You seem pretty smart.   Can you tell me what possibly a competitor could do by knowing that you have finished your tape out?   How would that help them do anything?   Or that you have populated your board and are testing?   What would that information do for a competitor?   Would it help them get their design done faster?   Would it help them test their design?   Would it help them move up in the line at the foundry?
"competitors":  Everytime I read that I think "LIARS".  "BULLSHITTERS"

It presumably gives you an idea of how far within the race you are, and how much further you have left to travel.

As much as it gives us reassurance to know, it he ambiguity gives competitors nightmares I guess...

Anyway it's not the known competitors that need funding any of us should be worried about, it's the unknown competitors with funding, that do exist as Yifu warned everyone about at Bitcoin 2013.

Yesterday's news which was corrected by WSJ still had elements of truth about it, just a kid that is supposedly doing everyone favours in distributing a non centralised network far and wide, teaming up with the devil, and ex-broker for the bank (Lehman's) that was the catalyst for the largest fraud in financial history selling sub-prime bonds, and genuinely the reason Bitcoin emerged from it's ashes to differentiate money from these people who exist to leech money from everyone else would be the worst possible outcome for all concerned. Total centralisation...

[WastedLTC]

I know a few of you use http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ to estimate your return.   They had a bug in their system.  I contacted them yesterday morning and it was fixed last night.  I recommend revisiting the site.

September units still look good but October is pushing it.   Any delays after October will cause the units to not break even.  Getting the miner online the minute it's ready will be crucial.  Shipping/customs delays will be a killer.   Just to be safe, I'm signing up to host one of my units.

I can't imagine KNC shipping units that are not profitable so I really hope their 'margins on margins' work out. 

This is going to be a nail bitter for many all of us.

[Bitcoinorama]

I know a few of you use http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ to estimate your return.   They had a bug in their system.  I contacted them yesterday morning and it was fixed last night.  I recommend revisiting the site.

September units still look good but October is pushing it.   Any delays after October will cause the units to not break even.  Getting the miner online the minute it's ready will be crucial.  Shipping/customs delays will be a killer.   Just to be safe, I'm signing up to host one of my units.

I can't imagine KNC shipping units that are not profitable so I really hope their 'margins on margins' work out. 

This is going to be a nail bitter for many all of us.

When you say not ROI you mean ever, or in October?!

[CYPER]

I hope they deliver on time. A one-two month delay from October mean people may never get back their ROI.

I wonder how do people come to these conclusions?
When you say "one-two month delay from October" what exactly do you mean?
Do you imply that just a few people will get their miners delayed or most people?
Do you realize there is a huge difference between a few people and most people?
At what percentage of monthly network difficulty increase do you base your conclusions?
Do you realize that the percentage of network difficulty increase is not a constant, thus calculators such as http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ do not create a clear picture of the future.
Do you realize that if it becomes unprofitable for Jupiters to mine, then it becomes unprofitable for anyone to mine (until Gen 2 machines)

September units still look good but October is pushing it. Any delays after October will cause the units to not break even.  

So you know the network hashrate and difficulty in October to be able to make such statements?
If all KNC units are delayed don't you think that this will positively affect the future hashrate and difficulty or put simply if there are no machines, then there is no such drastic increase in hashrate and difficulty.
I know there are other ASIC solutions, but none of them can influence the network as much as what KNC has promised to deliver.

[klee]

Hey guys about my issue they emailed me today and said they will refund me in USD!

The guys are very professional IMO and too bad I did not catch the pre-orders...
Next time!

I hope they will deliver on time, they deserve to succeed.

Did you originally pay in bitcoin or USD?

Bitcoins through Bitpay (see previous posts).

Hey guys just to inform you that finally I have received my refund in my Bank account.
Thank you again KnC for your cooperation!!

[crumbs]

Once these vendors get the pre-order money flowing they stop communicating in any meaningful way(or outright lying). This has been the case with bfl, avalon, & btcfpga...only time will tell if knc will be any different.

I should create an ASIC Company that whispers sweet nothings into your ear as you fall asleep at night just to keep you from admitting that you spent money you shouldn't have on miners.
I won't actually create a product, but I will be extremely vocal and have a non-important status update every day (maybe about chickens and dogs or something )
This should satisfy your appetite and stop you from complaining right?
Wrong!
You and every other person that spend more than they can afford to lose will still complain until they have an actual miner in their hand. There's absolutely no reason to ask them for updates when they just recently stated everything is on track, that's what matters right?
Apparently not to you.

+1
Best argument evar for firing the PR guy right after the IPO.  Real men don't need no CRM.