Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[yeemartin]

bummer...  I do  

good luck, bro!

I just put down 1 btc bet on KnC not able to deliver on time, LOL.

Cool, I'll be enjoying your BTC at Blane's Drive-in!    Woof! (evil-grin)

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

I'm gonna win the bet, I'm 100% sure. If you are that sure you gonna win, please put down more BTC. I can match the amount that you put down up to 20 BTC.

[WastedLTC]

bummer...  I do  

good luck, bro!

I just put down 1 btc bet on KnC not able to deliver on time, LOL.

Cool, I'll be enjoying your BTC at Blane's Drive-in!    Woof! (evil-grin)

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

I'm gonna win the bet, I'm 100% sure. If you are that sure you gonna win, please put down more BTC. I can match the amount that you put down up to 20 BTC.

...we will see!!!  I'm biting my nails right now.   I'm rooting for KNC to deliver in September!   The last post from them said they were on schedule--  isn't that enough?   

[yeemartin]

bummer...  I do  

good luck, bro!

I just put down 1 btc bet on KnC not able to deliver on time, LOL.

Cool, I'll be enjoying your BTC at Blane's Drive-in!    Woof! (evil-grin)

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

I'm gonna win the bet, I'm 100% sure. If you are that sure you gonna win, please put down more BTC. I can match the amount that you put down up to 20 BTC.

...we will see!!!  I'm biting my nails right now.   I'm rooting for KNC to deliver in September!   The last post from them said they were on schedule--  isn't that enough?   

BFL said that too, all the time.

Why couldn't KnC reveal more info.? They have very good custom service, hiring people to answering the phone calls, etc. Why couldn't spend 3 more minutes to take some photos of the 28nm chips?

[Bitcoinorama]

bummer...  I do  

good luck, bro!

I just put down 1 btc bet on KnC not able to deliver on time, LOL.

Cool, I'll be enjoying your BTC at Blane's Drive-in!    Woof! (evil-grin)

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

I'm gonna win the bet, I'm 100% sure. If you are that sure you gonna win, please put down more BTC. I can match the amount that you put down up to 20 BTC.

...we will see!!!  I'm biting my nails right now.   I'm rooting for KNC to deliver in September!   The last post from them said they were on schedule--  isn't that enough?   

BFL said that too, all the time.

Why couldn't KnC reveal more info.? They have very good custom service, hiring people to answering the phone calls, etc. Why couldn't spend 3 more minutes to take some photos of the 28nm chips?

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

[WastedLTC]

BFL said that too, all the time.

Why couldn't KnC reveal more info.? They have very good custom service, hiring people to answering the phone calls, etc. Why couldn't spend 3 more minutes to take some photos of the 28nm chips?

Obviously I don't know.  Most logical reason is they don't have a chip yet.  BFL could delay shipping and the units would still be profitable.  KNC doesn't have that luxury.  Once the date slips, things will get ugly quick.   I think many BFL customers either paid in BTC or went so far past their ability to dispute the charge that they have no option but to wait.   KNC's units are also much more expensive which is another reason things will get ugly if the date slips.  

Waiting for a few more weeks to find out where we are and by then I hope to hear some good news.  

[erk]

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

But why can't they take a picture of the chips yet?

Because they obviously haven't arrived from the fabrication and packaging plants yet!

[WastedLTC]

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

But why can't they take a picture of the chips yet?

Because they obviously haven't arrived from the fabrication and packaging plants yet!

I think he was being sarcastic...  (i hope!)

[Bitcoinorama]

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

But why can't they take a picture of the chips yet?

Because they obviously haven't arrived from the fabrication and packaging plants yet!

I assume Bargraphics is being silly in his response Erk.

[Ytterbium]

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

What are you talking about?  You design a chip.  Then you send it off to the fab to fabricate, dice, and package. Then you wait three months, and then you get your chips in the mail.

The only way to get "prototype chips" is to do a small order early, test, and then do another order later on. But that process takes 6 months.

If you do your whole order up front, then there are no prototype chips, they are never created in the first place. KnC will get it's first chips in September, and those will be sent out to customers.  

There is a small chance the chips won't work, but that's unlikely.  

If you think they'd have prototype chips at this point you don't understand how ASIC production cycles work.

[Phoenix1969]

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

But why can't they take a picture of the chips yet?

Because they obviously haven't arrived from the fabrication and packaging plants yet!

I assume Bargraphics is being silly in his response Erk.

Because the chips would be arriving at Orsoc, not KNCMiner, and they have already stated that they consider that to be "sensitive information"

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

[Bitcoinorama]

What part of the fact there are no chips yet, they are being manufactured, KnC is waiting on receiving them, there's not really much to update in the interim do you not understand?!?

But why can't they take a picture of the chips yet?

Because they obviously haven't arrived from the fabrication and packaging plants yet!

I assume Bargraphics is being silly in his response Erk.

Because the chips would be arriving at Orsoc, not KNCMiner.

OMG you do realise KnC is based at ORSoC?! KnC is ORSoC's CEO, their CTO, their lead ASIC designer as well as Sam and Andreas concentrating on the business side, ordering, project management etc.

Have you even read the 'about us' on the KnC site??

https://www.kncminer.com/pages/aboutus

[Phoenix1969]

but a different location in Stockholm, yes?
I'm aware they're a "Team", and share CEO's...  just a thought.
but again...
already stated that they consider that to be "sensitive information"

Hi Guys

We would like to say that. Yes....we did tape-out of the ASIC some time ago. The exact details of the ASIC schedule, volumes, vendor etc. is kept internal since it's very sensitive information towards competitors. The product development tasks are on-track."

We are still on schedule to begin shipping in September.

Thanks
KnCMiner Team

[Bitcoinorama]

but a different location in Stockholm, yes?

No. That' the point. They are working round the clock together, this isn't contracted out work where designers a paid a fee for their time and don't care whether the project succeeds of not. That' the on,y thing these guys are concentrating on and they have a vested interest in seeing it come to fruition. Plus they are competitive.

[Phoenix1969]

Well, you would know better than anyone here I reccon...
I'm still 100% optimistic on the whole KNC "situation"
I've deployed page monitors to keep me notified the instant there is any news posted (long ago)

[Bitcoinorama]

Well, you would know better than anyone here I reccon...

Opendays were held at ORSoC's building around a table in a presentation room with robotic arms and other bits of previous work.

They said that unlike previous companies that contracted out work and had breakdowns in communication they weren't going to let that happen. This is their project, not a contract where win/lose it doesn't matter you get paid anyway.

The more recent companies you have seen appear are totally copying this approach. In house design team trying to make a product work first time. Only they need funding, are behind, have to promise more than the next for cheaper, and hopefully give you a return better than a company that aims to deliver a working product at a point when network hashrate is a lot lower two months earlier.

If KnC does succeed, and does deliver on time, ROI could well be on the way to being complete before the competing companies deliver and play catch-up. Their catch-up being their efficiency savings in the long term have to meet the short term gains KnC miner will have already made before these competing companies launch.

Only in a months time you may well be able to purchase a proven KnC miner Jupiter in hand at the point the other companies start to fundraise (if that all happens in the next month and KnC can prove a working chip in that time).

[yeemartin]

Let's be realistic. If they are really going to deliver in September. Then, they should be tweaking some prototype NOW, OR at least show us some photo of their 28nm chips, OR at the very least, some photo of the shinny wafer. But do we see any of those?

What are you talking about?  You design a chip.  Then you send it off to the fab to fabricate, dice, and package. Then you wait three months, and then you get your chips in the mail.

The only way to get "prototype chips" is to do a small order early, test, and then do another order later on. But that process takes 6 months.

If you do your whole order up front, then there are no prototype chips, they are never created in the first place. KnC will get it's first chips in September, and those will be sent out to customers.  

There is a small chance the chips won't work, but that's unlikely.  

If you think they'd have prototype chips at this point you don't understand how ASIC production cycles work.

I admit that i don't know ASIC. However I knew that both Avalon and BFL spend more than two months on tweaking their prototype after they received their first batch of chips. Putting chips to the PCB and making them to work per the design specs take time and effort, not something that just happens overnight.

[Phoenix1969]

Music to my ears...or eyes?..."Eye Candy"...  Either way, "you play a mean fiddle" (O'rama)... Lovn' it   I wish Retro would post more as well tho

YeeMartin....   Yeah, but they aren't new to this by any means.

[Ytterbium]

I admit that i don't know ASIC. However I knew that both Avalon and BFL spend more than two months on tweaking their prototype after they received their first batch of chips. Putting chips to the PCB and making them to work per the design specs take time and effort.

Tweaking the PCBs not the chips.

And yes, it was a problem for BFL and Avalon. But for both of them that that was the first ASIC project they'd ever done. ORSoC is an ASIC (and FPGA) design company.  Designing ASICs, and the boards for them to go on is all they do. 

I don't know what the problem with Avalon was - they sent out Batch 1's pretty early, before February, before B2 was even open for ordering. So their initial production did end up going out on time..  If you had placed a bet on their initial on-spec delivery, you would have won that bet!. 

Their later problems came about from their ability to build all 300 units and get them sent out in time, as well as a problem getting their SMT line up and running for the larger batch 2 and 3.

It was really only BFL that had problems with their initial PCB design and had to start over.
____

Also, look at Bitfury.  Their PCBs seem to work fine (they don't even seem to need heatsinks at all)

The big risk here seems to be production capacity.  KnC is outsourcing their physical production to a 3rd company, one we don't know anything about.  That is a potential point of failure.

However, when you look at the odds the probability of failure seems low the risk factors are -

1) Their chips will be delayed (out of their control)
2) The chips won't work, or won't work with their planned design
3) The PCB design won't work.  So far, only BFL has had a problem with this.
4) There will be a production problem

Regarding #4, Bitfury is only sending out "kits", final assembly has to be done by the customer.  KnC's systems are more fully built, but all they're sending is a big metal box with 1, 2 or 4 ASIC modules, plus a simple/cheap controller.  The customer is responsible for the PSU.

You seem to be most worried about #2 and #3.  For #2, it is a possibility, but for a company that has lots of experience designing ASICs this strikes me as unlikely. Same with #3.  And if there is a problem with #3 new PCBs can be designed and manufactured pretty quickly.  (From what I understand, BFL actually had to change the packaging on their chips, probably quite expensive)

The other thing to remember: Building ASICs and PCBs isn't some kind of black magic. Obviously things can go wrong if it's something you've never done before.  But keep in mind: this is something that happens all over the world all the time.  People build ASICs and PCBs and build products around them and ship them out. Every electronic product you own went through this same process. 

The idea that it invariably ends in tears and months of delays is just weird. BFL was especially incompetent, and Avalon's problems stemmed from their ability to physically build units not their chip or PCB design. (and now, mail boxes of chips).

[dwdoc]

Just a quick reminder, three days left to participate in my auction of a DAY 1 Jupiter upgrade + 6 months of hosting with KnCMiner,

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.new#new

Take advantage of this opportunity to increase your hashrate.

All the best for you all,

There's no ebay link here or on the bitcointalk page you provide, so how is one supposed to bid?
So by "day 1 Jupiter upgrade" you mean it was a Saturn, which you later upgraded to a Jupiter, and paid for hosting? and your selling 1/2 the profit, with a starting bid of 50btc(50 x 106 = 5300)
you could very well get some "Takers" on that, but you'll surely need an E-bay acct.

The auction is at that thread.

Terms
* Minimum bid is 50 BTC
* Minimum increment is 0.5 BTC
* The auction will extend for six days and will end on Saturday at midnight board time (UTC)
* Winner is expected to send funds within 36 hours of auction end.
* Bid format: 1 @ XX BTC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.new#new

[Anenome5]

Okay, let's caaaaalm down, people.

Who, by worrying, can extend their life even a day, or make an ASIC ship any faster. You've chosen to trust KNC with your money, sit back and let them work.