[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[sairon]

Because they never figured out how to calculate profitability for YaCoin due to the special algorithms it uses.

To clarify - profitability can be calculated, eg. in my calc here http://yacexplorer.tk/static/calc.htm . However, you need to know your YAC hashrate first. When calculating profitability on sites like coinchoose, it is assumed that the same hardware gives 1000x lower LTC hashrate than BTC hashrate (for GPUs at least). So if you're getting 500 GH/s for BTC, you'll have approx. 500 kH/s in LTC hashrate. With YAC this is really unpredictable as it depends heavily on available caches, memory bandwidth and size. And it also changes over time.

For example, if you were to normalize this hashrate ratio by taking the performance of the most-used GPU for LTC mining, you might end up orders of magnitude off the real speed for a slightly different GPU model.
Say card A gives 500 MH/s for BTC, 500 kH/s for LTC and 5 kH/s for YAC.
Card B has 250 MH/s for BTC, 250 kH/s for LTC and still 5 kH/s for YAC (and it might also cost $100 less!).

(I just made these numbers up.)

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[aso118]

Going back to something we talked about a while ago (I can't find the post right now)…  But, how difficult would it be to create a 'super POS miner?'  Right now I have dozens of transactions ready to mint, and my processor is only working at a few percent.  I leave the computer on, with the wallet unlocked for minting, 24/7.  It would be nice if I could turn on a 'super POS miner,’ increase my processor work to 90-100%, for a few hours once a week and then be able to use the computer for something else.

Anyone else interested in this?  Maybe we could get a bounty started?



Edit:  Another thought/question...

Is there an easy way to see the number of POS a wallet has had?  Or which transactions are 'ready' to mint?  Right have a have a massive excel sheet tracking which transactions have and haven't been minted.  It would be much easier to see this through the block explorer or the wallet.  Does something like this already exist?

[ShXnot]

hi @Thirtybird
when i want to mine with your version i get this message :

Code:

[2013-12-20 00:03:58] Starting Stratum on stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088
[2013-12-20 00:03:58] 4 miner threads started, using 'scrypt-jane' algorithm.
[2013-12-20 00:04:01] Stratum authentication failed
[2013-12-20 00:04:01] ...retry after 30 seconds

i used this command in .bat file :

Code:

minerd-core2 -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass

is there any other setting that i missed?
am i did it right?
thanks

[Sahtor]

I have an interesting point to Yacoin's popular criticism. People have accepted Peercoin as valid distribution and stable store of value. I agree with those people.

http://peercoinmyths.com/

Myth 3 - Peercoin (PPC) was insta-mined.
Fact: “Some people like to point out the high mintage in the first few days of the launch, this is another misunderstanding. In the first few days of any publicly released cryptocurrency the mintage is going to be relatively high because difficulty is low and lots of miners would like to participate, causing blocks to be generated much faster than usual and resulting in high mintage per day. Unlike most other altcoins, we already tried to mitigate this by starting difficulty at higher initial value of 256 and also further reducing the number of low difficulty blocks via continuous difficulty adjustment.”

http://cryptometer.org/ppcoin_96_hour_charts.html

Hour 24
Work Supply: 2 031 917,77 PPC

http://cryptometer.org/yacoin_96_hour_charts.html

Hour 24
Work Supply: 1 964 914,70 YAC

Basicly Yacoin was as fair or fairer than Peercoin. I guess we should compare various "richlists" to see if the situation has leveled since then.

[Beave162]

I have an interesting point to Yacoin's popular criticism. People have accepted Peercoin as valid distribution and stable store of value. I agree with those people.

http://peercoinmyths.com/

Myth 3 - Peercoin (PPC) was insta-mined.
Fact: “Some people like to point out the high mintage in the first few days of the launch, this is another misunderstanding. In the first few days of any publicly released cryptocurrency the mintage is going to be relatively high because difficulty is low and lots of miners would like to participate, causing blocks to be generated much faster than usual and resulting in high mintage per day. Unlike most other altcoins, we already tried to mitigate this by starting difficulty at higher initial value of 256 and also further reducing the number of low difficulty blocks via continuous difficulty adjustment.”

http://cryptometer.org/ppcoin_96_hour_charts.html

Hour 24
Work Supply: 2 031 917,77 PPC

http://cryptometer.org/yacoin_96_hour_charts.html

Hour 24
Work Supply: 1 964 914,70 YAC

Basicly Yacoin was as fair or fairer than Peercoin. I guess we should compare various "richlists" to see if the situation has leveled since then.

YACoin is the fairest coin ever.  People are able to mine it even now with a higher reward per block than the early adopters.  I guess the best criticism of YACoin is that it really screwed the early adopters--particularly compared to other coins.  But in the end, it is good for everyone because more people will be interested and invested in it.  This next NFactor change is going to be a crazy one.

Going back to something we talked about a while ago (I can't find the post right now)…  But, how difficult would it be to create a 'super POS miner?'  Right now I have dozens of transactions ready to mint, and my processor is only working at a few percent.  I leave the computer on, with the wallet unlocked for minting, 24/7.  It would be nice if I could turn on a 'super POS miner,’ increase my processor work to 90-100%, for a few hours once a week and then be able to use the computer for something else.

Anyone else interested in this?  Maybe we could get a bounty started?



Edit:  Another thought/question...

Is there an easy way to see the number of POS a wallet has had?  Or which transactions are 'ready' to mint?  Right have a have a massive excel sheet tracking which transactions have and haven't been minted.  It would be much easier to see this through the block explorer or the wallet.  Does something like this already exist?

aso, you can see dates and confirmations of your transactions pretty easily with coin control... just go to the send coins section and look at the 'inputs'.  Perhaps there should be a more user friendly way?

Also, I am under the impression that even though PoS uses CPU, the ability to stake coins faster does not depend on CPU processor speed so increasing your CPU percentage used by the yacoin client won't benefit you.  Am I wrong?

[St.Bit]

YACoin is the fairest coin ever.  People are able to mine it even now with a higher reward per block than the early adopters.  I guess the best criticism of YACoin is that it really screwed the early adopters--particularly compared to other coins. 

It was/is extremly fair compared to others.

I don't belive it's fair for a few early adopters to make huge amounts of money for just beeing at the right place and time. Since YAC prices crashed after launch everyone regardless skills/timing/equipment could buy that amount of YAC he wanted to buy. Everyone without a mining rig or expensive ASICs can mine so even if you weren't capable to spend a few bugs on YAC you could still get some for free.

This used to be the same on bitcoin, but only if you were damm early to the party. For YAC I belive people will still profit from buying into it a few decades from now while on bitcoin everyone that buys in a few years will get screwed hard. If you haven't got any bitcoins by then you will have to pay enormous prices and have the risk that noone will buy at the same insane prices you bought. PoW keeps YAC sane while on BTC it doesn't matter anymore.

[Thirtybird]

hi @Thirtybird
when i want to mine with your version i get this message :

Code:

[2013-12-20 00:03:58] Starting Stratum on stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088
[2013-12-20 00:03:58] 4 miner threads started, using 'scrypt-jane' algorithm.
[2013-12-20 00:04:01] Stratum authentication failed
[2013-12-20 00:04:01] ...retry after 30 seconds

i used this command in .bat file :

Code:

minerd-core2 -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass

is there any other setting that i missed?
am i did it right?
thanks

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

[ShXnot]

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

thanks for reply
sorry, but i dont know about -O setting

[Thirtybird]

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

thanks for reply
sorry, but i dont know about -O setting

it was in your command line - if you don't know about it, then you've probably done it wrong.  There is help available from the commandline by issuing "--help" as the first parameter.

[ShXnot]

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

thanks for reply
sorry, but i dont know about -O setting

it was in your command line - if you don't know about it, then you've probably done it wrong.  There is help available from the commandline by issuing "--help" as the first parameter.

thanks Thirtybird
i'll check that

[sairon]

Also, I am under the impression that even though PoS uses CPU, the ability to stake coins faster does not depend on CPU processor speed so increasing your CPU percentage used by the yacoin client won't benefit you. 

Exactly.

[aso118]

Also, I am under the impression that even though PoS uses CPU, the ability to stake coins faster does not depend on CPU processor speed so increasing your CPU percentage used by the yacoin client won't benefit you. 

Exactly.

I thought (and I very well may have misunderstood), that while POS minting the wallet pauses for about half a second between each hash; and this was originally intended to maintain low cpu usage.  Is it possible to remove this pause, increase CPU usage, and increase POS output?

[Marinowner]

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

thanks for reply
sorry, but i dont know about -O setting

it was in your command line - if you don't know about it, then you've probably done it wrong.  There is help available from the commandline by issuing "--help" as the first parameter.

Hey Thirtybird I tried to mine with your cpuminer,I have intel i7 and I use minerd corei7! When I use -a scrypt -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O WorkerName:WorkerPassword  I get actual processor power which is 25kh/s but accepted shares are invalid but when I use -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass   shares are valid but my power is 0.07kh/s ! please help!

[aso118]

Hey Thirtybird I tried to mine with your cpuminer,I have intel i7 and I use minerd corei7! When I use -a scrypt -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O WorkerName:WorkerPassword  I get actual processor power which is 25kh/s but accepted shares are invalid but when I use -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass   shares are valid but my power is 0.07kh/s ! please help!

If you use the '-a scrypt' flag, you're computer is mining using the scrypt algorithm instead of the scrypt-jane algorithm.  YAC uses scrypt-jane, so you will have to use the '-a scrypt-jane' flag to have valid shares.  The decrease in mining speed is normal.  YAC uses the 'N-factor' which increases the hash length, and helps keep the coin resistant to ASICs and other specialized mining software.

If you use '-a scrypt-jane' and you're still not getting accepted shares, try using the '-a yacoin' flag.  I know some of the miners use this instead.

[Joe_Bauers]

Hey Thirtybird I tried to mine with your cpuminer,I have intel i7 and I use minerd corei7! When I use -a scrypt -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O WorkerName:WorkerPassword  I get actual processor power which is 25kh/s but accepted shares are invalid but when I use -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass   shares are valid but my power is 0.07kh/s ! please help!

If you use the '-a scrypt' flag, you're computer is mining using the scrypt algorithm instead of the scrypt-jane algorithm.  YAC uses scrypt-jane, so you will have to use the '-a scrypt-jane' flag to have valid shares.  The decrease in mining speed is normal.  YAC uses the 'N-factor' which increases the hash length, and helps keep the coin resistant to ASICs and other specialized mining software.

If you use '-a scrypt-jane' and you're still not getting accepted shares, try using the '-a yacoin' flag.  I know some of the miners use this instead.

@ Marinowner, keep in mind that everyone with your setup will also get ~0.07kh/s so it's a relative number.

[aso118]

Thinking ahead to the next N-increase, how difficult would it be to change the units on the cpu miner from khash to hash?  So instead of showing

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 0.07 khash/s

It would show something like...

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 75 hash/s

I think it may even be helpful now.  Most of the time I just see all of my threads sitting at 0.07 khash/s.  It would be nice to know where they actually are (70-79 hash) and how other programs, I'm running, effect their performance.  It sounds minor, but 9 extra hashes per thread could be a 12.8% mining increase.

[St.Bit]

Thinking ahead to the next N-increase, how difficult would it be to change the units on the cpu miner from khash to hash?  So instead of showing

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 0.07 khash/s

It would show something like...

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 75 hash/s

I think it may even be helpful now.

+1
Usually I hate changing unit prefixes to make something look bigger since only idiots would fall for it. On the other hand only idiots would belive that hash/s should be always the same as for LTC on other cryptos. A warning for non idiots that hash/s are ok should be adden nevertheless, not everyone knows everything about the crypto he mines.

[Beave162]

authentication failed?  check your username & password - make sure your worker name is setup at the pool and make sure your settings in -O match.

thanks for reply
sorry, but i dont know about -O setting

it was in your command line - if you don't know about it, then you've probably done it wrong.  There is help available from the commandline by issuing "--help" as the first parameter.

Hey Thirtybird I tried to mine with your cpuminer,I have intel i7 and I use minerd corei7! When I use -a scrypt -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O WorkerName:WorkerPassword  I get actual processor power which is 25kh/s but accepted shares are invalid but when I use -a scrypt-jane -q -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -O worker:worker_pass   shares are valid but my power is 0.07kh/s ! please help!

feeleep, could you update the 'get started' section of your pool to reflect this change... 'scrypt-jane' in place of 'scrypt'.  Thanks much.

[Thirtybird]

Thinking ahead to the next N-increase, how difficult would it be to change the units on the cpu miner from khash to hash?  So instead of showing

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 0.07 khash/s

It would show something like...

Code:

[2013-12-23 14:23:19] thread 3: 4322 hashes, 75 hash/s

I think it may even be helpful now.

+1
Usually I hate changing unit prefixes to make something look bigger since only idiots would fall for it. On the other hand only idiots would belive that hash/s should be always the same as for LTC on other cryptos. A warning for non idiots that hash/s are ok should be adden nevertheless, not everyone knows everything about the crypto he mines.

I was thinking of updaing the output interface screen to be more akin to CGMiner.  I may be able to update it so yacoin cpu hashrate gets displayed in a smaller unit.

[aso118]

I was thinking of updaing the output interface screen to be more akin to CGMiner.  I may be able to update it so yacoin cpu hashrate gets displayed in a smaller unit.

That would be really helpful if you could do that.

On a side note - is there a way to see how many POS blocks I minded?  I'd be interested to see how many coins I've mined via POW vs POS.  And as the YAC continues to become established, it may be useful to see how this ratio trends.