[ANN] DERO: DAG + Cryptonote + Bulletproofs + SSL + POW + Smart Contracts

[Spooknow]

When will the source code be released? All I ever hear is "in a few days". But the devs said the same thing after atlantis and it turned out to take nearly a month before it was pushed to mainnet. Can we actually expect it to be "in a few days" or not?

By the way, this is one of the reasons that the token is not yet bought on the observation sheet. When the deadlines are broken, then this is a very bad sign of a normal project, it always does everything within its terms.
For me it is fundamentally.

They need to build a public structure first before releasing a Open Source code without NDA. Going Open Source doesn't mean free to reproduce/fork or free to use without authorization. 

Understood then we all just have to watch and wait for what will happen next. I think they should still be more open and follow what they promise and then they will succeed.

[1714131534]

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[debext]

I thought I bought at the bottom, but got a second bottom as a gift 
I liked this coin because of the opposite trend with respect to other coins. When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

[shanepottermi]

I thought I bought at the bottom, but got a second bottom as a gift 
I liked this coin because of the opposite trend with respect to other coins. When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

Last time I explained the price drop i got banned from their discord so probably gonna go unanswered lol

Long term i'm still bullish though (if they can successfully implement smart contracts and their source code checks out when its finally released)

[Razkor999]

I thought I bought at the bottom, but got a second bottom as a gift 
I liked this coin because of the opposite trend with respect to other coins. When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

For about 3 months they banged on about going anti Asics with the Atlantis algo/s release then at the last minute dropped it.

[MagicSmoker]

...
When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

1) DERO abruptly decided to embrace ASICs after months of claiming it would do the opposite, alienating many long time supporters.

2) Some of most public-facing members of the DERO team - community manager --Serena-- and "unspecified role" team member Mojo - have attacked or banned anyone on the DERO Discord and Slack channels who questioned the above decision, much less argued against it. Granted, some of those people were getting tiresome and others were less-than-respectful, but I daresay that part of the job description for community manager is dealing with the angry and upset, and one should be especially sympathetic when there is a very valid reason for that anger (see reason 1).

3) The source code was supposed to be part of the Atlantis release, but it was delayed by "a few days" so that people with a masters or doctorate in cryptography could evaluate it for bugs/exploits; then it was delayed for a month or more so the DERO Foundation can be set up in Malta or Croatia or whatever.

4) Many Q2/18 goals - like the GUI wallet - were shifted to Q3/18, though to be fair, they did dramatically accelerate the development of Atlantis; then again, the reason for that was to fork off ASICs (see reason 1 again).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

[debext]

...
When earlier everything fell in price, this coin was growing upwards. Unfortunately now it is obvious that something is going wrong ... What happened? Why did people start selling their coins?

1) DERO abruptly decided to embrace ASICs after months of claiming it would do the opposite, alienating many long time supporters.

2) Some of most public-facing members of the DERO team - community manager --Serena-- and "unspecified role" team member Mojo - have attacked or banned anyone on the DERO Discord and Slack channels who questioned the above decision, much less argued against it. Granted, some of those people were getting tiresome and others were less-than-respectful, but I daresay that part of the job description for community manager is dealing with the angry and upset, and one should be especially sympathetic when there is a very valid reason for that anger (see reason 1).

3) The source code was supposed to be part of the Atlantis release, but it was delayed by "a few days" so that people with a masters or doctorate in cryptography could evaluate it for bugs/exploits; then it was delayed for a month or more so the DERO Foundation can be set up in Malta or Croatia or whatever.

4) Many Q2/18 goals - like the GUI wallet - were shifted to Q3/18, though to be fair, they did dramatically accelerate the development of Atlantis; then again, the reason for that was to fork off ASICs (see reason 1 again).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

Then we can only hope that they will take into account the current situation and perhaps something will change. It's sad, but I was counting on a medium-term prospect and eventually became an investor. So far I will not sell my coins, maybe the team will show its potential in the near future.

And I think this project needs another exchange, since the commissions are large enough to move coins between other exchanges.

[RoccoSiffredi]

If I understand correctly a new blockchain for Dero has just been released? Could someone please sum up details and implications?

The new blockchain changes from the old traditional PoW blockchain, to a new custom DAG-PoW blockchain.

This has enabled extremely fast block times, currently averaging around 10 seconds, with much increased tps capabilities, i think it was somewhere around 500 something, and is scalable based on resources.

It has implemented bulletproofs to reduce transaction sizes.

Increased resistance to attacks, supposedly truly eliminated double spending, shadow addresses, and eliminated orphan blocks.

I mean, it's one of the biggest upgrades in all of crypto right now and nobody knows about it lol, and others well they're too busy getting worked up over the ASIC resistance debate.

I am very intrigued indeed. If I understand it correctly it's basically the only project out there with a PoW mineable DAG blockchain... or are there other ones already?

[b9ron]

Zencash (ZEN) gonna upgrade to a BlockDAG paradigm too but with SEPCTRE protocol (but doesn't support Smart Contract you need a second layer for that) but not before Q1 2019.

Currently you have 3 Generation of PoW BlockDAG ( provide no orphan block so it's totally imune to 51% attack):
- SPECTRE ( gen1, fast but doesn't support smart contract )
- PHANTOM ( gen2, support smart contract but lost some speed compared to gen1 )
- DERO-DAG ( My guess : is SPECTRE combined to PHANTOM in a certain way to bring fast settlement, ordered block and Smart Contract )

Currently DERO-DAG is the latest decentralized tech out there right now about scalability and fast settlement in only one layer

[Coindgr]

...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

You've got your point right, even I may understand the reasons pointed to keep ASIC friendly, but the feeling that I was deceived has not yet passed....

[restless]

A bit dumb question
Last 2 months was not paying attention to Dero project... so can I simply get new binaries, start it and point to my wallet?
:/

[MagicSmoker]

A bit dumb question
Last 2 months was not paying attention to Dero project... so can I simply get new binaries, start it and point to my wallet?
:/

Not quite. You do need to get new binaries from http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/ (no difference between the plainly named versions and the ones with atlantis in the name), but the database format is different so either sync from 0 or else download a snapshot from the /blockchain folder. Next you will need to recreate your wallet by restoring from seed (use the save seed command in the old wallet if you haven't already done so for backup purposes then use the restore from seed command in the new wallet after the daemon finishes syncing).

Note there is a bug in the Windows binaries that (sometimes? always?) adds an "m" to the beginning of the first word in the seed, so correct if necessary.

[MagicSmoker]

...
I've said it before and I'll say it again: good technology - even the best technology - won't save you if you alienate your supporters and flake out on most of your goals, promises and commitments.

You've got your point right, even I may understand the reasons pointed to keep ASIC friendly, but the feeling that I was deceived has not yet passed....

I, too, ended up coming around on the reasoning behind sticking with original Cryptonight, but after thinking on it some more I identified a few other potential problems:

* There are no new CN ASICs for sale - after Monero forked all of the ASIC manufacturers scrapped plans to make additional batches. Consequently there is a finite number of ASICs out there that could be used to secure the network, and by all accounts a good fraction of those have simply been turned off (just a couple weeks ago DERO was flirting with 2GH/s - yes, 2000MH/s; now it is <500MH/s).

* That finite number of ASICs will dwindle over time as they begin to fail, and fail they will since the manufacturers typically expect them to be profitable to operate for just a few months at most; ie, reliability and a long lifespan aren't top design priorities.

* Miners like me with a few CPUs/GPUs have to take a more long-term approach to projects if for no other reason than our hardware wouldn't earn very much if we sold what we mined on a daily or weekly basis. For example, I have all of my CN-optimized hardware mining ITNS because their project intends to do something unique (a distributed, peer-to-peer VPN service that you pay for with crypto), but it is almost never the most profitable CN-variant coin to mine.

That said, I still agree that hidden mining via private FPGAs - and even ASICs - is a potentially serious problem, and that forking every few months to head them off is not, perhaps, as practical of a solution as I once thought it was. That doesn't excuse the haphazard way the DERO team decided to stick with CN, nor the hamfisted way it has dealt with those of us who were deeply disappointed at this abrupt change of face.

[Coindgr]

A bit dumb question
Last 2 months was not paying attention to Dero project... so can I simply get new binaries, start it and point to my wallet?
:/

Not quite. You do need to get new binaries from http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/ (no difference between the plainly named versions and the ones with atlantis in the name), but the database format is different so either sync from 0 or else download a snapshot from the /blockchain folder. Next you will need to recreate your wallet by restoring from seed (use the save seed command in the old wallet if you haven't already down so for backup purposes then use the restore from seed command in the new wallet after the daemon finishes syncing).

Note there is a bug in the Windows binaries that (sometimes? always?) adds an "m" to the beginning of the first word in the seed, so correct if necessary.

Regarding the wallet restoring, I've tried once, and the seed was giving me error, even after several atempts looking carefully to the words. The only way I found was to use the secret key, this method can be used also

[CaptDero]

...

That said, I still agree that hidden mining via private FPGAs - and even ASICs - is a potentially serious problem, and that forking every few months to head them off is not, perhaps, as practical of a solution as I once thought it was. That doesn't excuse the haphazard way the DERO team decided to stick with CN, nor the hamfisted way it has dealt with those of us who were deeply disappointed at this abrupt change of face.

I am sorry many got fire though not to be.
But team tried to explain all and keep calm until few tried to cross all the limits of decency.

Mining, books can be written on this subject and lots have changed since the beginning.
@MagicSmoker there are not much genuine cpu/gpu miners left like you. Time has changed.

Also Hashrate is much smoother and better now. Plans for brining FPGA solutions too in the DERO network.

[GhostPlayer]

I am sorry many got fire though not to be.
But team tried to explain all and keep calm until few tried to cross all the limits of decency.

Mining, books can be written on this subject and lots have changed since the beginning.
@MagicSmoker there are not much genuine cpu/gpu miners left like you. Time has changed.

Also Hashrate is much smoother and better now. Plans for brining FPGA solutions too in the DERO network.

 Sorry, have to call complete BS on this.

 Plans for FPGA? Sure, many have lambo and moon plans too. You clearly have no idea what this entails, from a production phase to end-user.
Of course, extremely well code litirated folk will manage, but leaves out 99% of the general populous. It is a pain to maintain with any minor glitch

 And about selling pre-packaged FPGA yourself, is the ultimate conflict of interest.

 And the fact you are commenting this, means you are totally in the loop - probably the reason for the anti-ASIC reversal in the first place. FPGA for this algo already exists, so majority of the work done. Meaning, YOU GUYS ARE VERY LIKELY THE ONES MINING HIDDEN

 If find all this disturbingly suspicious.

 With every single post from the team, you guys shoot yourselves in the foot.

[jopari]

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.

[coloredcoin]

Where is the windows wallet,want to try this platform?

[jopari]

Where is the windows wallet,want to try this platform?

You'll probably want https://git.dero.io/DeroProject/atlantis/src/master/dero_windows_amd64.zip (64 bit).

There are instructions for setting up a wallet at https://forum.dero.io/t/create-backup-restore-dero-wallet-in-one-minute/110

(If you find the sync to be too slow, you can speed it up by putting the file at http://seeds.dero.io/atlantis/atlantisDB/derod_database.db in the "mainnet" folder created by the daemon when you first run it. You'll need to complete the sync by running the daemon after doing so, nonetheless.)

[GhostPlayer]

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.

 I have a grip. That is why I am being so vocal about it.

No agression, I did not use profanity or strong language. But I do get defensive when I smell something is off. And, in some weird way, I do feel an obligation as a trusted member of this community to state my views.

 and if anyone knows who i am, you know I as quick to critique as I am to being refuted and if I am wrong - I admit it and appologise.

 Innuendo? Maybe. Just pointing out my view. Speaking of agression, what about someone who invested in mining GPU only to have their tables turned? What about the clear censorship? Where is the promissed code? What about those who decided to buy DERO based on the premise that it would not be ASIC mineable? All of these are clearly defrauded. Everything that was being said would happen, happened the exact opposite way.

 Luckily, I hold zero Dero and I dont mine this at all, nor will I ever. I am strongly anti-ASIC, but yes, thinking of getting back to mining, may get me a hobby Vegas 64 liquid cooled.

 This Dero ASIC argument is total BS. Even if you could control the network 80% and cause mayhem and double spends, the attacker would be caught red handed and a quick fork would resolve this - with zero loss of credibility to the team for acting correctly - not to even start debating the megalithic finantial cost of suh an attempt - to which it would bring zero gains to the attacker.

 Get real. I've seen hundreds of projects in the hashrate hands of single majorities, and until now no 51% has been truly effective. Monacoin, zencash, bitcoin gold - sure - it can happen - but to this day not one single project went to dust because of a successful attack. Where is the financial incentive?

 Dero has no great technology, its a mix-match of several known techs. I see no "excellent result", no current use case, no MVP.
just a mineable rolling blockchain, as of now.
 
 About your last statement, sorry if I may sound zingy, but you are really either too inexperienced or really have no clue at all.

 This is not how you create an open-source decentralized blockchain project. The way they are behaving belongs to the coorporate boardroom.

[MATTX]

Get a grip, GhostPlayer... If you want some DERO, buy some. Otherwise, why such aggression? The reasoning behind the team's decision is sound and has been discussed endlessly and repetitiously now: whatever algorithm you choose, an ASIC can be made. At least with a well-known ASIC algorithm, there is a large hash rate and thus a secure network (much harder to attack). Plus, the ASICs are commercially available from multiple sellers for those who really do want to mine.

DERO has some great technology, has produced some excellent results already, and has an exciting roadmap ahead.

Don't spread conspiracy theories. Moreover, it is good to be charitable, especially to those who have given you this exciting project and asked nothing in return.

 I have a grip. That is why I am being so vocal. No agression, I did not use profanity or strong language. But I do get defensive when I smell something is off. And, in some weird way, I do feel an obligation as a trusted member of this community to state my views.

 and if anyone knows who i am, you know I as quick to critique as I am to being refuted and if I am wrong - I admit it and appologise.

 Innuendo? Maybe. Just pointing out my view. Speaking of agression, what about someone who invested in mining GPU only to have their tables turned? What about the clear censorship? Where is the promissed code? What about those who decided to buy DERO based on the premise that it would not be ASIC mineable? All of these are clearly defrauded.

 Luckily, I hold zero Dero and I dont mine this at all, nor will I ever. I am strongly anti-ASIC, but yes, thinking of getting back to mining, may get me a hobby Vegas 64 liquid cooled.

 This Dero ASIC argument is total BS. Even if you could control the network 80% and cause mayhem and double spends, the attacker would be caught red handed and a quick fork would resolve this - with zero loss of credibility to the team for acting correctly - not to even start debating the megalithic finantial cost of suh an attempt - to which it would bring zero gains to the attacker.

Get real. I've seen hundreds of projects in the hashrate hands of single majorities, and until no 51% has been truly effective. Monacoin, zencash, bitcoin gold - sure - it can happen - but to this day not one single project went to dust because of a successful attack.

Dero has no great technology, its a mix-match of several known techs. I see no excellent result, no current use case, no MVP.
 
 About your last statement, sorry if I may sound zingy, but you are really either too inexperienced or really have no clue at all.

 This is not how you create an open-source decentralized blockchain project.

No offense why don't you go with the your above coins and leave dero alone.
Dero does not have great tech whats the big deal there are 1000s of other coins with great tech move on.
Dero is asic favorable coin. Dero project is not open source if you missed. No gui wallet no big exchanges Anonymous devs premine and much more you even can't dream.
No need to reply.