[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[SyRenity]

+1
They need to have a small pre-mine for funding, then let the market decide the merchantability of the platform. This aligns their interests with ours. I want the developers to be hungry to succeed for the long haul.
The way the launch is structured, crafted by ex-GS banksters, should alert everyone that we are reaching peak greed and are being played for fools vis a vis the Nasdaq in 1999.  Don't be a desperate investor here. You are not gaining any insider advantage by investing at this time. I am certain there will opportunities after launch to put money to work more efficiently than at IPO time.

I must say I'm starting to lean towards this opinion. While the potential of Turing compete blockchain is enormous, the purposed IPO is a direct contrast to how other 2nd gen cryptos have launched:

• MasterCoin - JR put 1500 of his own BTC (granted it was into his own address, but he donated them in exchange for MSC, which could be worthless for all we know)

• Nxt - despite the suddenly cut IPO and questionable inflation following, the founder both donated himself and asked for a small and reasonable sum to start with

• XCP - the devs went as far as being the first to burn their own BTC (without any promise someone will follow), and never tried to actually raise funds directly, besides donations address

I don't really know how eMu conducted to this point in time, but it's pretty obvious they haven't requested ton of funding upfront, otherwise it would be hailed across all topics as yet another proof of their "scammy" nature.

Hope the devs come with an improved proposal for their both and the community, before the launch.[/list][/list]

[gutshot5820]

If the bitcoin community gives these wall street advised Ethereum 30,000 bitcoin and 50% pre-mine it will be game over for the miners and small investors in the crypto community.  Every coin launch will be backed and advised by people from Goldman Sachs, it will be 30,000+ bitcoin and 50% pre-mine on every launch.  This coin will set a precedent and signal to Goldman Sachs and their friends that they can exploit the bitcoin community with a slick video.

Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning - Yes it will be the beginning.  The beginning of the end for miners and crypto investors.  Do not enable this type of greed into the bitcoin community.  You will destroy everything you have worked for by signaling to these type of people that we can be taken advantage of.

[HinnomTX]

A herd of new ingenious, I have the best tech entities advised by wall street guys will come out with marketing videos and EVERY coin will want 36 million to launch plus 50% pre-mine. If we give these greedy wall street guys 30,000 btc and 50% pre-mine it will set a new precedent.  Wall street guys, Goldman Sachs will introuce a new coin every week demanding more and more and the miners and bitcoin community will get churned and burned.  I guarantee you this.  This is just the beginning.  Dont let them take over the crypto coin community with their  greed.  If you pay them 30,000 bitcoin and give them 50% pre-mine you are enabling them and giving them more incentive to take over the crypto community.

+1 again.
This precedent that you have noted is potentially a devastating threat to the crypto world. If this launch happens as-is, the wall street guys will be emboldened to launch ever bigger crypto ideas in a completely unregulated setting. Think Neon or VisaCoin scams hurt the community? Child's play.
As a sobering reminder of dotcom times, I give you the stuff of legends: Agillion.
http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2003/04/14/daily48.html?page=all

[SyRenity]

Not to mention we know nothing of these people and how much they have contributed or will contribute to the project. If you tried to sell a Series A to a VC firm and mentioned that 1/3 of the funds raised would go to paying off not only the founders but also all of the employees so they could all be millionaires, I don't think it would go well.

I gather you would need an adoption of Groupon scale to pull off such trick, and unfortunately Ethereum is nowhere there.

[lemfuture]

This thread is such a joke.

your contributing quite a lot  to make it  the joke it is.

That's because it is absolutely hilarious.  If I didnt see it for myself I wouldnt believe it.  One slick youtube ad and they want 30,000 Bitcoin from the BTC community.  The vapor tech may eventually be awesome, but by the time they launch, I GUARANTEE you there will be another coin that will tout better and more ingenious tech.  You want to give a bunch of strangers 30,000  BTC of your own money out of your pocket?  No venture capitalist in their right mind would touch this thing.  Not only will your shares dilute but you will be sadly mistaken if you think it wont be cloned and improved upon in one week.

They have a few guys that work/worked for Goldman Sachs on their team, is it any wonder that they are asking for 30,000 Bitcoin with no background checks, no insurance, no bonds, nothing.  They think the entire bitcoin community is so pumped on this crypto pump that they think we are a bunch of idiots willing to give them a truckload of money without any DUE DILIGENCE.

after reading this. . . suddenly made me realize.. satoshi/btc didnt had ipos like these 2nd cryptocoincurrencies.. it was design out of noble work.. and the community gave it a value
im out of ipo etherium.. ill just try to mine it

[Brilliantrocket]

Ethereum seems like an interesting idea, which kind of makes me sad that it has such a horrible IPO structure. Far too high of a premine, too much inflation, too small of a stake for anyone investing in the IPO. The devs should not be given such a large stake. If they believe in Ethereum, they need to be investing their own BTC on equal terms with regular investors. Fixing this would require lowering the IPO cap, along with the inflation from mining. Otherwise, what's the point of investing when you can just invest in mining hardware with much less risk?

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

This coin tries to do so much stuff at the same time.

This won't work well.

It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

[gutshot5820]

Ethereum seems like an interesting idea, which kind of makes me sad that it has such a horrible IPO structure. Far too high of a premine, too much inflation, too small of a stake for anyone investing in the IPO. The devs should not be given such a large stake. If they believe in Ethereum, they need to be investing their own BTC on equal terms with regular investors. Fixing this would require lowering the IPO cap, along with the inflation from mining. Otherwise, what's the point of investing when you can just invest in mining hardware with much less risk?

Exactly, let the market decide what it is worth based on its own merits.  Is it any wonder how this is the first coin with a slick video and asking for 30,000 bitcoin plus 50% mine plus huge salary?  They have a few guys on their team that work/worked for Goldman Sachs.  If the bitcoin community supports this type of action. it will be the beginning of the end for all the miners and crypto investors.  You will only be hurting yourself in the long run by supporting and signaling to every Goldman Sachs, wall street guy that the bitcoin community is willing to support this type of launch.

[td services]

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!

[tk808]

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!

Just shows the level of incompetence of their public relations team. Whenever you ask for 30,000btc, you better have an air tight reason why, otherwise, piss off.

[doitnow]

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!

I'm glad that those things were brought up in this thread. Too bad for ethereum itself.. The whole project may be ruined because of bad IPO. VB should reconsider this fundraising plan and start over again.

BTW I haven't seen any of the ether devs clarifying ppl concerns .Did they suddenly gave up on this thread?

[Brilliantrocket]

I really think they should delay the IPO and reevaluate. It's clear that a significant portion of the community has issues with the current structure.

[ThePatient]

I really think they should delay the IPO and reevaluate. It's clear that a significant portion of the community has issues with the current structure.

Definitely. I doubt they will though because they probably spoke of this structure at the miami conference, and so don't want to go back on that.

But the thing is, I bet a lot of people would invest if this distribution was different. The technology really does seem like crypto 2.0....but that greed, good god....

[tk808]

This thread has really deteriorated. Lesson learned - always self moderate when making any proposal on Bitcointalk!

I'm glad that those things were brought up in this thread. Too bad for ethereum itself.. The whole project may be ruined because of bad IPO. VB should reconsider this whole investing idea and start over again.

BTW I haven't seen any of the ether founders clarifying any doubts. Did they suddenly lost they faith in this project?

VB doesn't even care about this thread. He hasn't been on since the 25th. You'd think they would show more commitment then that

[tk808]

I am officially out of investing during the IPO.  This is just too much BS for me. I'll (maybe) buy them for much cheaper when mining starts

+1

Get ETH @ 75% discount

[gutshot5820]

I am officially out of investing during the IPO.  This is just too much BS for me. I'll (maybe) buy them for much cheaper when mining starts

+1

+!

Exactly, by the public reaction you can tell that this will be way undersold.  They will unload millions of shares onto the public to pay obligatory commitments, the shares that were designated for pre-sale.  They will initially sink to the price that the market will accept.  The benefit will be that, you will signal to wall street that the bitcoin community will not be taken advantage of and you cannot gouge the miners and crypto investors.  

[TulipMania]

I really like the idea behind this and it may very well be the future, but I can't imagine why you guys are begging for bitcoins in order to create a better version of bitcoin. If you guys lack the motivation and the skills to create this without a $35,000,000 hand out, there are many other people who will be more than happy to do this without you.

10/10 for the most ambitious ploy to get my bitcoins.

[Microove]

Let's start a new ethereum. I'm down.

[BittBurger]

I don't have opinion yet.

But did any of you see the post by the guy who attended the Miami conference?

He clearly stated that the 30,000 BTC was a self imposed cap on fund raising.  It was not the amount they're claiming they need.

He clearly stated that V named 500 BTC as what they actually need.  If they have that, they can continue with the project.

Stop saying they're demanding 30,000 BTC from investors.  Apparently its not factual.  Or its lacking some information.

If this became a 500 BTC IPO .... would that make people happier? 

---------------------

I need some clarification please. 

Lets say someone invests 10 BTC ...

Why does everyone say they won't get much ROI?  I realize its going to gradually decrease in value, but this seems bewildering to me. 

Nobody is going to invest in something declared ahead of time to decrease in value.  So there's information missing from this response as well.

Someone said you *might* double your money after a few years.  Is that really the likely outcome?  I probably would save my $10,000 in BTC for something else if I have to wait 3-5 years for it to go to a whopping $20,000.  I would appreciate a response to this from someone who actually understands the system.  That eliminates 90% of people in this thread.

-B-

[ThePatient]

^Well for one, do you really think that when mining starts and trading on exchanges happen, that the price will be .1btc for 100 ethers?

Probably not. I highly doubt it will start that high. Right there, you lose money.