Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[myshownow]

I now understand your crude methodology. Psuedo-Intellectualism at its BEST. This is why Russia is FUCKED.

Wow, so heavy, man, Hats off!!! I'm really baffled!!!

You know THAT word?

Seriously, congratulations, you know the word "Pseudo-intellectualism", after all? Where did you find it? Good to know even the most stupid can mistakenly pick up the word "pseudo-intellectualism" from the streets...

Well, we need the entertainment. So many bluffs are going around us (even World War war bluffs, mind you) that we need to find the irony in the most ridiculous. The main thing about the Ukraine fiasco is that RIDICULOUS seemed to be the mantra of delusion.

It's the end of an era... the Anglo-Zionist dark empire is finally bankrupt... there's no mistaking it... that makes even the most ridiculous tolerable. For now.

Again, congratulations! You should treat your mother, you were not too stupid after all...  
(... at least, you know how to pick words from the streets... )

[DarkForces]

I now understand your crude methodology. Psuedo-Intellectualism at its BEST. This is why Russia is FUCKED.

Wow, so heavy, man, Hats off!!! I'm really baffled!!!

You know THAT word?

Seriously, congratulations, you know the word "Pseudo-intellectualism", after all? Where did you find it? Good to know even the most stupid can mistakenly pick up the word "pseudo-inellectualism" from the streets...

Well, we need the entertainment. So many bluffs are going around us (even World War war bluffs, mind you) that we need to find the irony in the most ridiculous. The main thing about the Ukraine fiasco is that RIDICULOUS seemed to be the mantra of delusion.

It's the end of an era... there's no mistaking it... that makes even the most ridiculous tolerable. For now.

Again, congratulations! You should treat your mother, you were not too stupid after all...  

I TREAT your mother all the time...

[Rassah]

You guys need to get your stories straight. You say the only ones left are Aidar Nazis, others are saying Mariupol has lots of Ukrainian army and separatists can't invade, another said NAF was pushed out by Ukrainian army... Please get your lies in order so you don't make up conflicting stories.

The Ukrainian troops currently stationed in Mariupol number somewhere between 4,000 and 6,000. Of them, only a small minority are regular Ukrainian soldiers. The remaining is drawn from various neo-Nazi units such as Dnepr, Donbass, Azov, Krym, Aidar.etc, in addition to the Nazi-majority National Guard.

You obviously don't have any sources on that (except maybe something only from Russia), so I'm just going to call bullshit on that.

[Rassah]

Apparently, you've missed it - there was an anti-Maidan movement in Mariupol, but it was brutally suffocated by Ukrainian forces in June. Batallion 'Azov' played key role - for those less informed, 'Azov' is notorious Ukrainian paramilitary gang whose mentors are ultra-nationalists

Thanks for the info. Researched, and looks like confirmed. So now the picture is a bit clearer: Putin, who's country is ultra-nationalist and has a whole lot of its own neo-Nazis, tried to destabilize Ukraine with fearmongering propaganda and military support (whom he claimed were "volunteers," but finally admitted were Russian military), but probably didn't count on Ukraine having its own set of ultra-nationalist volunteers to contend with. I guess this war isn't ending any time soon. Probably fine for Putin, as long as no one starts mining that gas in Eastern Ukraine, or let's Ukraine join NATO.

Are you you sure about that? http://hrw.org/news/2014/08/28/ukraine-rebel-forces-detain-torture-civilians

I am not saying that rebels are angels, there are nutjobs within their ranks too but... HRW? Please. It's just a tool in the hands of American administration. They will tell whatever is needed to be told in any given situation. Amnesty International can be pretty biased, but these guys are professional liars.

News source has a story I like? They might be biased, but I believe them!
News source has a story I don't like? Please! They're obviously lying!

Two weeks ago United Nations’ refugee agency stated that the fighting in Ukraine had displaced more than a million people, vast majority of them seeking for shelter in Russia: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/world/europe/more-than-a-million-ukrainians-have-been-displaced-un-says.html?_r=0.

I was searching for refugee numbers that moved further into Ukraine, and stumbled onto this:
"At the beginning of August, the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner (UNHRC), estimated that the number of individuals displaced by fighting in the eastern Ukraine Donetsk and Lugansk regions was around 102,600." (http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2014-08-28/refugees-from-the-fighting-in-eastern-ukraine-flood-kiev)

This probably refers to just the ones in Kiev, not the total amount, since there are a few articles claiming "almost a million to Russia," but I wonder if that could also just be newspapers reprinting a story they heard from other newspapers. There are news reports of Ukrainian refugees in Lviv and other parts of Ukraine as well (including first hand witness by my Kiev friend who said the schools are overcrowded with refugee kids), but I can't seem to find any numbers on them. Probably for the same reason: they are living with friends or family, and are hard to track, especially when they don't have to cross borders into foreign countries.

[Rassah]

Just realized something. A lot of anti-Ukraine people here are worried about a monopolar world, or whatever, where there is only one economic superpower, and are French kissing Putin's asshole because they think he is the only one left to stand in that power's way, and the only one capable of bringing about a multipolar world.

But, who is sanctioning China? Who is planning military attacks against it? Many in US acknowledge it as the second most powerful economic power in the world, and even accept that it has a very good chance to surpass USA within a few decades. They look at it from the point of US power being in decline, sigh sadly, and shrug their shoulders, thinking the only solution is to either work harder and do better, or accept our fate and let another superpower have the spotlight for a while. No one is proposing going to war with China, or undermining it politically with coups. US and many Americans still see China as a valuable business partner and at least somewhat of a friend, even if one they can't fully trust. Russia, by contrast, has an almost negligible economic power, and yet is considered very hostile. So obviously it's not because of their possible superpower status.

[Rassah]

What this means for Russia: not much, since Russian government owns the oil and the energy companies that most of Russia's income comes from (this is called fascism or communism BTW, depending on whom you ask).

Is Norway fascist or communist, or its 67% stake in Statoil is not enough?

Socialist. Their state owned entities are owned by politicians who are actually subject to elections and can be voted out of power. I.e. they have an actual democracy, so it's the democratically elected government that owns the company, not a single party ruling elite.

If you're talking with a bit educated person then it's state capitalism

That's, like, almost the definition of fascism, since there's really no such thing as actual state capitalism.

Also, LOL! Right, "your girlfriend"   Having trouble defending your positions, so now being forced to run to your girlfriend for extra help. Hah!

[Rassah]

The NAF is now leveling every square inch of the Donetsk Airport using Grad rockets.

Very good... I think they should bomb Mariupol too...

Excellent! Feels good to admit that you're all for bombing a civilian area, as long as it's not one you support, doesn't it?

Of course, just like in Ukraine, the CIA has these trolls who are very angry in forums

Lol! Wtf? I know Russia always claims that it's the other side that's doing the things they are doing (having Nazi problems, shelling civilians, spreading lies in the media, etc.) but CIA trolls, too? While there are Kremlin trolls for sure, I assure you there are no CIA trolls in any forums. That's not even their job!

[Rassah]

I think, Russians give too much leeway to the games of the bankrupt EU states. Remember, these countries are past their prime, they are on their way out, so it's time to introduce new methods of doing things. It may not tally with their old script, but their script is already outdated, time to introduce other ways of doing things...

Hey, this is a question to the rest of you anti-Ukraine junta. Do you guys actually agree with what this nutcase is saying? How can your site both be against military expansion and spreading political ideology to other countries that "need" it (like you claim "The West" does), AND at the same time be for military expansion and spreading political ideology to other countries that "need it?" I mean, I'd love to paint you all with the same crazy brush as this Nazi nutcase here, but he's so far out that it wouldn't even be fair!

[Rassah]

quote author=niothor link=topic=518645.msg8816424#msg8816424 date=1410704883]
The rockets from the NAS that hit the airport are coming from inside the city.
Why are the launchers located there?

The truth is that the Ukraine army fires at residential areas because as they are losing the war and it is done in vengeance.. they have no other recourse. Also, it heavily demoralizes the NAF troops to witness such death.

[/quote]

If they witness the deaths, then they ARE there? What are they doing in civilian areas, shooting at Ukrainian army? They are putting civilians at risk! Since you admitted they are there, answer niothor's question!

[bryant.coleman]

If they witness the deaths, then they ARE there? What are they doing in civilian areas, shooting at Ukrainian army? They are putting civilians at risk!

The NAF forces, in most cases are not stationed near the civilian residential areas. However, in case of casualties occurring as a result of the Kiev shelling, they are called to the scene in order to remove the dead bodies and rescue the trapped civilians. And yes... it demoralizes them, as almost all of them are natives of the Donbass region, unlike the neo-Nazis who are imported from Lvov and Ternopol.

[Rassah]

If they witness the deaths, then they ARE there? What are they doing in civilian areas, shooting at Ukrainian army? They are putting civilians at risk!

The NAF forces, in most cases are not stationed near the civilian residential areas. However, in case of casualties occurring as a result of the Kiev shelling, they are called to the scene in order to remove the dead bodies and rescue the trapped civilians.

Ah, so like in that RT video of a grad firing rockets, they enter civilian areas, fire rockets at Ukrainian army, then quickly get the heck out of there, and then when Ukrainian army shots back, thinking they are still there, they have to return and get demoralized after removing the dead bodies. I get it now.

And yes... it demoralizes them, as almost all of them are natives of the Donbass region, unlike the neo-Nazis who are imported from Lvov and Ternopol.

Almost all... You know what would be great? If the ones who aren't would take their military hardware and go back to Russia where they came from, and stopped firing on Ukrainian army from civilian regions. I mean, what's the worst case that could happen? If they stay and fight, they either continue getting more of their own people killed, or at best if they win, they either lose all their independence completely if they are integrated into Russia (who is very strict with anyone even suggesting independence), or are allowed to be their own country, but are filled by actual neo-Nazis (remember pictures of them in Nazi uniforms?) who will undoubtedly continue to torture and kill people they think are not supportive of their regime (and it's a fact that nowhere near 100% want to break off, since only about 30% even voted in the poll asking whether to break of). On the other hand, if they give up and either ask for amnesty, or go to Russia, who is known to give amnesty to mass murderers (for example Yanukovich), then things go back to normal with the region staying under Ukraine, which as you guys keep repeating is a failing state, and thus has a weak government not able to force or oppress anything, and then vote to break off for real, all the refugees can return to their own homes and reclaim their stuff, and they can either get jobs and earn lots of money mining that gas, or even have real elections to see whether they want to break off, ones not presided by angry looking men holding machine guns.

Seriously, what kind of rosy ending do you suppose can happen here, when a neo-Nazis nationalist group from Russia is fighting a neo-Nazis nationalist group from Ukraine? Even if Russia wins this fight, it will likely end up the same way as when US won the war in Iraq, with Ukrainian nationalist continuing to fight and blow things up.

[myshownow]

OK, I will stoop down a few minutes today, this will be educational to a few creatures who can't believe they just can't hack it brain-wise:

Charity and mercy are good virtues. I thought it best to give you some reading assignments to improve your... well, you know what:

1. Read about sanctions done on China after the Tienanmen massacre. Despite those sanctions,, we know what happened to China- it is now the richest country in the world

It is becoming clear Russia  is shouldering the sanctions very well like China did (because Russia already has a strong economy when the sanctions were done while China was just starting when it was sanctioned) Look at figures , not at propaganda by the Anglo-Zionist media like Bloomberg, etc. THe fact is, the EU countries are the ones showing depressed economy (0.2% decline in Germany but Russia grew by 0.8%). IN short, a strong country can grow espite WEstern sanctions, especially now that these countries are all imploding.

 2. Of course, Sanctions can't be done now on China or the world will laugh. Why? REad about the assets and liabilities of the bankrupt WEStern countries. Their liabilities are far greater than their assets (read the Princeton studies that the US has $220 trillion unpaid liabilities vs its supposed $17 trillion income). That's why their sanctions on Russia failed and its the EU countries which are showing signs of suffering. As analogy, a fat man may look he has money to buy food but he can be easily taken down suddenly by cardiac arrest.THe WEstern countries can always boast their padded GDP values but their mountainous debts made them insolvent that they are really very weak. (BTW, the latest sanction round is just a political move which is not what we thought it was: why? REad about it then think deeply. Clue: Russia won that round.).

China is the banker of the US, but China actually was the one who initiated its partnership with Russia to fight the bankrupt WEstern financial system (Li immediately visited Russia when he became the Chinese head). THe WEstern propaganda, mimicked by UKrainian comedians, that it can make it appear it can separate China from Russia won't work (the old "Divide and conquer" gimmick of the Anglo-Zionist empire).

3. Read about Intellectual Dishonesty
That means you're fooling yourself too much just to force reinforcement of your bias: I quote you (this is the primary proof of what's wrong how your brain works)..

They look at it from the point of US power being in decline, sigh sadly, and shrug their shoulders, thinking the only solution is to either work harder and do better, or accept our fate and let another superpower have the spotlight for a while. No one is proposing going to war with China

JUST SIGH SADLY? AS the Pope said, we are already in a World War, only it is being done piecemeal.If you have a computer, browse and count the wars going on around the world. You will discover everything has the
hand of the US there. Why many wars? Why don't they just "shrug shoulder"? Or it because they are courting war because twice in history, the Anglo-Zionist faced bankruptcy and WW1 & WW2 broke out.

Now you know why I don't bother wasting my time with you. In a way, I'm imitating the cool style of my idol Putin. He knows the bankrupt US shadow players are using the UKrainian comedians to pull him into their suicide to solve their humiliation ( WW3) but Putin knows he can win anyway the financial war going on, so why bother? He can always use his military later on, and his enemies will be weaker after Russia & China are through with them.

While everybody has a right to debate, every fool can fool himself he can do it and I'm not a fool to waste my time on a fool

Good luck improving your IQ.What remains of Ukraine will need it.

[niothor]

It is becoming clear Russia  is shouldering the sanctions very well like China did (

Barney Ruble just hit 38 this morning .
Highest in 52 weeks was 31.

[bryant.coleman]

Almost all... You know what would be great? If the ones who aren't would take their military hardware and go back to Russia where they came from

So far, the facts from the war in Donbass says that what you are posting here is BS.

Out of the 1,500 or so NAF soldiers killed so far in the War in Donbass, more than 80% were born in the Donetsk or Lugansk oblasts. Some 15% were from other regions of Ukraine, while less than 5% were foreign volunteers (from Russia, Serbia, Abkhazia.etc).

http://goo.gl/PxAENm

On the other hand, taking a look at the official casualty list released by the Kiev junta, it can be seen clearly that no more than 2% of the KIA were from Donetsk / Lugansk. Take a look by yourself:

http://goo.gl/t5As8y

[myshownow]

It is becoming clear Russia  is shouldering the sanctions very well like China did (

Barney Ruble just hit 38 this morning .
Highest in 52 weeks was 31.

Try harder, my Romanian tobarish:

Note, the financial war Russia & China are doing is "De-dollarization". Russia is getting out of the dollar system. We are witnessing here the birth of an alternative financial system not based on the imploding dollar.

The Ruble-Dollar rate is  just a ready propaganda tool of the WEst but anybody well-versed on economics knows the grain from the hulls. For all its worth, that SNAPSHOT rate is fluctuating,  and it could change anytime,- in fact, it would recover later down the line after every sanction round. Since the start of this year, that has been the primary propaganda highlight of the WEst but look whose economy is holding and actually growing... it's Russia... and the supposedly "rich" EU shrinking...

[bryant.coleman]

The latest map on the ground situation from NAF:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/kot_ivanov/71733898/33492/33492_original.jpg

Six Ukrainian army pockets remain inside the NAF territory, and at least one of them (Donetsk airport) is currently engaged in fierce fighting with the rebels. The NAF has withdrawn completely from Mariupol and the strategically important village of StaroIgnatovka.

[Balthazar]

Agitation near the Arbitration Court of Moscow City:



 

[myshownow]

Agitation near the Arbitration Court of Moscow City:

Yeah, the compromises somewhat suck but it's obvious that at least, there was the start of give and take. I can guess the long-term script, however. So it's enough at this point in time.

I still prefer Novorussia, from Kharkov to Odessa though. So it doesn't mean it's time to be complacent now. ..

[Paya]

According to pro-Kiev Burkonews, Ukrainian Security service (SBU) is arresting locals in Odessa, Mykolaiv, Volnovakha and Krasnoarmisk for the alleged subversive activities and connection with the resistance movement.

[blablahblah]

I see that the Russian propagandists have been given new instructions. They are no longer bothering to deny the presence of Russian troops and aggression on Ukrainian soil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

Yeah, I agree that ignorance could be painful.

You deleted the second half of my post from your quote. Accident??

The new tactic is intimidation.

You are simply building a straw man, which also serves as a red herring to distract attention.

Anyone can read from the last couple of pages:

LOL, so I see you got your article from a future Russian. I actually think, it's time that Russia should get serious and get the Baltics again. I know it will be a walkover , no big challenge,

Russia can do anything, the world will always applaud it.

Russia has the license to do anything because it is seen as the hero, the world will always applaud it...

The NAF is now leveling every square inch of the Donetsk Airport using Grad rockets. Earlier, there were artillery attacks towards the Donetsk city residential areas from the Airport. Casualties were reported in that attack, and the NAF seems to be pretty pissed off with it. Eyewitness reports indicate that the whole area is burning as a result of the attack.

Very good... I think they should bomb Mariupol too...

Russia has a stronger military than China...

I think, Russians give too much leeway to the games of the bankrupt EU states. Remember, these countries are past their prime, they are on their way out, so it's time to introduce new methods of doing things. It may not tally with their old script, but their script is already outdated, time to introduce other ways of doing things...

Is it just a coincidence that myshownow's aggressive stance and barrage of distractions came shortly after Pagan posted an article, which exposed the Russian war methods? There's no need to thank me for explaining your dirty tricks. I'm sure you would like your readers to be well-informed about how red herrings are a useful propaganda technique.