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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1978712 times)
cypherdoc
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November 19, 2014, 06:00:43 PM
 #17541

More good stuff from Back :

Quote
"There’s a lot of education that needs to occur, there’s a lot of communication, and we look forward to the coming months where we’re going to be publishing more details, more technical details, sample code on GitHub, and allow people to start experimenting with various parts of the technology stack," Hill said.

The CEO said that Blockstream will strive to illustrate how sidechains can be used to empower entrepreneurial development, and that for now, this means educating developers through workshops and co-development.

Hill

Quote
"The entire project was born out of the open-source community, so the idea that we would do anything that isn’t open source or isn’t decentralized or open permission-less innovation is anti-bitcoin"

bu bbbu bbbuttttt Blockstream are the only one that profit from sidechains, right?

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.
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justusranvier
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November 19, 2014, 06:00:54 PM
 #17542

who you talking about?
This thread is a good starting point:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122013
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November 19, 2014, 06:02:37 PM
 #17543

The sidechain would need Bitcoin in order to survive. It can't kill the hand that feeds it.

True up to a point.
After which it doesn't.

it depends on what will substitute bitcoin, after such a "point".
if it's a better bitcoin I'm all for it. I guess we won't know
until it will happen.

if you have understood cypers arguments it doesn't have to be a better Bitcoin, and if your understood the adjustment in the incentive dynamic one can make it look better for the user and the miners, however there are tradeoffs, many here will dismiss them as inconsequential, but the biggest one for me is environmental impact on running this decentralize world, and this conversation hasn't even filtered through to that level yet or (mainly the expertise aren't here, and most Liberians like to marginalize it to the outskirts of the free market.  

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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November 19, 2014, 06:06:28 PM
 #17544

What are the other implementations of the protocol besides Bitcoin Core available right now?
btcd is the most complete in that it supports new block generation.

libbitcoin and bitcoinj are probably on the next tier.

Bits of Proof would have made it to this list had it not been successfully executed.
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November 19, 2014, 06:10:05 PM
 #17545

What are the other implementations of the protocol besides Bitcoin Core available right now?
btcd is the most complete in that it supports new block generation.

libbitcoin and bitcoinj are probably on the next tier.

Bits of Proof would have made it to this list had it not been successfully executed.
Thanks, and how can we monitor and foster the adoption of these alternatives?


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brg444
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November 19, 2014, 06:16:51 PM
 #17546

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.

Oh please.  Cheesy

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

I don't see you name in the Bitcoin's whitepaper. I do see Adam Back's though.

At the end of the day, these guys will be responsible for having develop technology that fosters innovations and the creation of companies, industries around Bitcoin while you'll remain cypherdoc, a username with a popular thread on a forum.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 19, 2014, 06:18:39 PM
 #17547

More good stuff from Back :

Quote
"There’s a lot of education that needs to occur, there’s a lot of communication, and we look forward to the coming months where we’re going to be publishing more details, more technical details, sample code on GitHub, and allow people to start experimenting with various parts of the technology stack," Hill said.

The CEO said that Blockstream will strive to illustrate how sidechains can be used to empower entrepreneurial development, and that for now, this means educating developers through workshops and co-development.

Hill

Quote
"The entire project was born out of the open-source community, so the idea that we would do anything that isn’t open source or isn’t decentralized or open permission-less innovation is anti-bitcoin"

bu bbbu bbbuttttt Blockstream are the only one that profit from sidechains, right?

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.

With ZB we're now up to at least 5 people who have debunked that claim of yours. Maybe you'd like to work on your arguments.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
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November 19, 2014, 06:20:10 PM
 #17548

Zerg once asserted that i was probably the first venture capitalist to invest in Bitcoin back in 2011.  i believe he is right.

what i saw in Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV sound money system that had the potential to replace gold and silver and consume fiat currencies worldwide.  everybody knows i went out and acted on that belief by selling all my silver startingat its peak of 49 (avg out 44) in May 2011 and then almost all my gold in Aug 2011 (avg out around 1750).  i started buying BTC @ 1.60 the day before Easter Apr 2011 and for the rest of 2011 mostly into the bottom @1.98.  this vision has been more than fulfilled.

now i see an existential threat to the whole concept of Bitcoin as Money with this spvp.  it breaks the linkage btwn the BTC currency unit and its ultrasecure blockchain.  this will dilute the entire money function and potential for Bitcoin as Money.  expect the price of BTC to drop if this is implemented.  you will no longer be able to describe Bitcoin as digital cash or digital gold or even as "apolitcal" money.  that's b/c of Blockstream control and the conversion of Bitcoin to a WoW trading platform.  you will have to say that Bitcoin is a trading platform that now offers stocks, bonds, insurance, contracts, Truthcoin, and oh, btw, currency.  this will cause confusion and dilution.

what a shame.  we had a chance to change the world.
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November 19, 2014, 06:21:37 PM
 #17549

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.

Oh please.  Cheesy

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

I don't see you name in the Bitcoin's whitepaper. I do see Adam Back's though.

  

you make it sound as if Adam and Austin are crucial for Bitcoins future success. (they aren't)

why would i want to put my name on a paper with a flawed assumption?
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November 19, 2014, 06:23:14 PM
 #17550

Thanks, and how can we monitor and foster the adoption of these alternatives?
Build businesses and products that use them.
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November 19, 2014, 06:23:33 PM
 #17551

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

hey, the money i pumped in played a part no doubt.

also, the constant evangelizing and trench wars i fought right here in this forum went a long way in convincing others also.

but i'm not a dev though so i'm sure that doesn't count in your book.
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November 19, 2014, 06:24:02 PM
 #17552

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.

Oh please.  Cheesy

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

I don't see you name in the Bitcoin's whitepaper. I do see Adam Back's though.

  

you make it sound as if Adam and Austin are crucial for Bitcoins future success. (they aren't)

why would i want to put my name on a paper with a flawed assumption?

I would bet they will be largely more relevant to the future of Bitcoin than you are.

I was referring to Bitcoin's white paper, not Sidechains'. You know, the one were Adam Back is credited with developing the proof-of-work system that Bitcoin runs under.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 19, 2014, 06:28:09 PM
 #17553

I was referring to Bitcoin's white paper, not Sidechains'. You know, the one were Adam Back is credited with developing the proof-of-work system that Bitcoin runs under.
Adam Back figured that proof of work could be useful and not where it could most usefully be employed.

He deserves credit for what he accomplished, and that credit in no way absolves him of proving his case in future endeavours.

Adam Back has to show his work, just like anybody else. Even Satoshi would be in that same category.

Past returns are not a guarantee of future results.
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November 19, 2014, 06:31:05 PM
 #17554

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

hey, the money i pumped in played a part no doubt.

also, the constant evangelizing and trench wars i fought right here in this forum went a long way in convincing others also.

but i'm not a dev though so i'm sure that doesn't count in your book.

I can recognize this.

But the fact that you so conveniently dismiss the works of people who have been involved in crypto since before you even knew about Bitcoin says a lot about your character.

These guys have been developing for years some of the very technology that underlies Bitcoin.

I think that deserves some respect

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
brg444
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November 19, 2014, 06:35:47 PM
 #17555

I was referring to Bitcoin's white paper, not Sidechains'. You know, the one were Adam Back is credited with developing the proof-of-work system that Bitcoin runs under.
Adam Back figured that proof of work could be useful and but where it could most usefully be employed.

He deserves credit for what he accomplished, and that credit in no way absolves him of proving his case in future endeavours.

Adam Back has to show his work, just like anybody else. Even Satoshi would be in that same category.

Past returns are not a guarantee of future results.

And they absolutely plan to show it.

I simply have some issues seeing people's reputation be ignorantly attacked when they are in part responsible for the existence of Bitcoin or have contributed to the technology and movement that spawned Bitcoin before most of us here even considered it possible or desirable

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 19, 2014, 06:35:52 PM
 #17556

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

hey, the money i pumped in played a part no doubt.

also, the constant evangelizing and trench wars i fought right here in this forum went a long way in convincing others also.

but i'm not a dev though so i'm sure that doesn't count in your book.

I can recognize this.

But the fact that you so conveniently dismiss the works of people who have been involved in crypto since before you even knew about Bitcoin says a lot about your character.

These guys have been developing for years some of the very technology that underlies Bitcoin.

I think that deserves some respect

you're continuing to use selective memory loss.

if you go back, i've acknowledged Adam's contributions many times in this thread.  i'm not sure about Austin's.

the only reason we're talking about these "contributions" is b/c you brought their names into the recent discussion as examples of the only ones we should be listening to in regards to SC's.  you've also given preference to dev opinion as more important to Bitcoins success.  this is wrong as this is a community you know and involves much more than just code.
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November 19, 2014, 06:41:05 PM
 #17557

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

hey, the money i pumped in played a part no doubt.

also, the constant evangelizing and trench wars i fought right here in this forum went a long way in convincing others also.

but i'm not a dev though so i'm sure that doesn't count in your book.

I can recognize this.

But the fact that you so conveniently dismiss the works of people who have been involved in crypto since before you even knew about Bitcoin says a lot about your character.

These guys have been developing for years some of the very technology that underlies Bitcoin.

I think that deserves some respect

you're continuing to use selective memory loss.

if you go back, i've acknowledged Adam's contributions many times in this thread.  i'm not sure about Austin's.

the only reason we're talking about these "contributions" is b/c you brought their names into the recent discussion as examples of the only ones we should be listening to in regards to SC's.  you've also given preference to dev opinion as more important to Bitcoins success.  this is wrong as this is a community you know and involves much more than just code.

this was all in reference to you stupid "devs gon devs" meme.

Austin founded Zero Knowledge Systems in 1997. If you want to debate vision. This guy has loads of it.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 19, 2014, 06:43:58 PM
 #17558

where were those 2 guys and you back in 2011 when the real war was being fought from 32 down to 1.98?  my whole argument and vision at the time was that Bitcoin was the ultimate SOV and sound money which had the potential to replace gold.  hence, the birth of this thread in 8/11 just before the peak in gold @1923 and my constant and incessant evangelizing of Bitcoin.  which yes, happens to rival and probably exceed in terms of hours many of the devs who have worked on Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a community if you hadn't noticed that involves all types, not just devs.  we've all worked towards its success as much as you would like us to think otherwise.

now Blockstream wants to change Bitcoin into a WoW trading platform which will dilute the money function which in my opinion is its strongest potential to change the fiat world.  the genesis block even indirectly references this in Satoshi's statement as he did many times in his posts.

and all it takes is for us to "keep our eye on the ball" as to what brought us to where we are today.

Oh please.  Cheesy

You make it sound as if you are the reason for Bitcoin's success.

I don't see you name in the Bitcoin's whitepaper. I do see Adam Back's though.

Bitcoin's killer app is SoV, those who have put cold hard cash create the liquidity we all so value, those are the heroes. Businesses who look to find win win and tax us are welcome, but businesses who want to change the rules of the game, so they can extract value and influence the network growth, at the protocol level need to stand up to a whole new paradigm of scrutiny.  Who cares if its open source, we'r talking about the rules, it has as much value as saying its a free market and sure anyone can start a bank and compete in this open market under the rules of the FED, and if you dont like the rules start a political campaign and change them when you have a majority.  

The parallels to the banking collapses in the late 1800 and early 1900 and the failed Bitcoin companies, and the Bitcoiners attitudes are uncanny, and to top it all off the solution is comparable to the FED backing banks but only this time its a network backed by the worlds greatest Network tightens, and if you hadn't realized Bitcoin is a network, not a bank.

 

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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November 19, 2014, 06:49:55 PM
 #17559


Austin founded Zero Knowledge Systems in 1997. If you want to debate vision. This guy has loads of it.

again, if they were so smart, how come they didn't get Bitcoin until 2013?  even with their noses buried within it?

how come some cypherdoc dude did?

facts are facts.

all i'm saying is your character assassination attempts towards me are just propaganda.  it's a good thing you're not associated with Blockstream, b/c if you are, that could turn out to be a big problem for them.
Adrian-x
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November 19, 2014, 07:15:40 PM
 #17560


With ZB we're now up to at least 5 people who have debunked that claim of yours. Maybe you'd like to work on your arguments.

brg444, your insolence is backfiring. I for one posted a very benign assessment of some concerns I has with the SC proposal on the day it was released, it didn't result in a discussion in the tread, but a PM telling me I was full of BS and clueless.

Naturally I wanted to know why, so I followed the discussion, anyone cowardly to attack me with a PM but not reply to my post made me think there is a problem here. So I looked, and sure enough this idea has problems, I don't hold all the same concerns as cypher, but I can't dismiss them either he is just exploring the defects to there very probable outcome, so I do see his points and can even imagine that many of the probabilities have higher odds of success than say Bitcoin did in 2010.

FYI if you weren't so closed minded I wouldn't have explored ways to engage with you, so thank you for that, the results are below.

It seems someone thought it a good idea to post my comments and cyphers on r/Bitcoin

I was surprised to see the community over there overwhelmingly 83% of over 300 votes feel we have valid ideas.  (that's about a 33% voter participation if you follow r/Bitcoin a lot.)


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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