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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010350 times)
cypherdoc
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November 23, 2014, 04:38:24 PM
 #17961


You forgot the period after UP.
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November 23, 2014, 04:39:56 PM
 #17962


Fixed:P

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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November 23, 2014, 06:26:29 PM
 #17963


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency. 

 Cheesy

You don't really believe these things you write do you?

You should know some people have motives beyond financial gains.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 06:32:29 PM
 #17964

Why is it assumed we need to implement fully decentralized smart platforms in the Bitcoin system?

Because Bitcoin is the one & only trusted ledger. If it isn't built within Bitcoin then you sacrifice trust.

Blockstream said it best : Can't be evil

Bitcoin & friends don't operate on trust, they use proof of work.  Have you even read the whitepaper?

And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.

Platforms are value neutral.  TCP/IP is being used for evil as MS/Google/Apple/Facebook aid and abet the creation of databases that would make Stalin and Honecker blush with embarrassment and shame.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
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Wilhelm
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November 23, 2014, 06:35:32 PM
 #17965

Why is it assumed we need to implement fully decentralized smart platforms in the Bitcoin system?

Because Bitcoin is the one & only trusted ledger. If it isn't built within Bitcoin then you sacrifice trust.

Blockstream said it best : Can't be evil

Bitcoin & friends don't operate on trust, they use proof of work.  Have you even read the whitepaper?

And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.

Platforms are value neutral.  TCP/IP is being used for evil as MS/Google/Apple/Facebook aid and abet the creation of databases that would make Stalin and Honecker blush with embarrassment and shame.

1. If both SHA256 and ECDSA are cracked then you still can't crack cold wallets with no outbound transactions.
2. If one would crack Bitcoin they would be stupid to drive the price to zero. You don't kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
3. Who says Bitcoin can't change it's proof of work algorithm?

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
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November 23, 2014, 06:47:34 PM
 #17966

If one would crack Bitcoin they would be stupid to drive the price to zero. You don't kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
Who says Bitcoin can't change it's proof of work algorithm?

BTC is destroying the traditional central/statist banking model and poised to begin the same process of disintermediation for stock exchanges.  Central banking and financial markets are two geese which lay very large golden eggs for some very powerful status quo powers that be.  They have an overwhelming interest in killing BTC before it kills their ability to collect rent.

If you are long Litecoin or otherwise short BTC, driving the price to zero would make you a fortune.

If BTC changes its PoW algorithm, it's not longer BTC because the ASIC-based infrastructure currently securing its blockchain would be useless.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
brg444
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November 23, 2014, 06:55:54 PM
 #17967


And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.


 Cheesy


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 07:00:02 PM
 #17968

...
If BTC changes its PoW algorithm, it's not longer BTC because the ASIC-based infrastructure currently securing its blockchain would be useless.

WTF???  Bitcoin is only Bitcoin because is makes ASIC gear non-useless?  Um...OK.  Whatever you say chief.


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November 23, 2014, 07:03:34 PM
 #17969

BTC=Gold  LTC=Silver  XMR=Platinum  BBR=Palladium  XPM=Nickel  XCN=Copper  VIA=Zinc  XDN=Aluminium



 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I sure hope you don't truly believe this.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 07:04:06 PM
 #17970


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency. 

 Cheesy

You don't really believe these things you write do you?

You should know some people have motives beyond financial gains.



I absolutely believe this.

Because if you're depending on gmax luke jr to understand the economics and game theory behind Bitcoin, you're going to have a bad time. 
brg444
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November 23, 2014, 07:07:53 PM
 #17971


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency. 

 Cheesy

You don't really believe these things you write do you?

You should know some people have motives beyond financial gains.



I absolutely believe this.

Because if you're depending on gmax luke jr to understand the economics and game theory behind Bitcoin, you're going to have a bad time. 

You can bet these guys are buying tons of BTC off market. But they're venture capitalists, their job is to fund companies, not invest in speculative assets.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 07:08:36 PM
 #17972


And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.


 Cheesy

What's so funny?  Being smug isn't an argument, just an admission of ignorance.

LTC in particular is punching far above its weight class in terms of market cap vs volume:

Bitcoin  $ 4,916,312,384    $ 11,867,000    
Litecoin $ 121,242,367    $ 1,628,240

I see you are a newb who just registered this year, so you can't be expected to remember LTC went to the moon last time BTC suffered a bit of technical difficulty in the form of a chain fork.   Grin


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
brg444
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November 23, 2014, 07:11:52 PM
 #17973


And Bitcoin is far from being "the one & only trusted ledger."  Litecoin, Peercoin, and Primecoin have been doing very well for a couple of years, TYVM.  Why would you only trust only one form of proof of work?  If a SHA256 or ECDSA exploit is found, BTC goes to zero.


 Cheesy

What's so funny?  Being smug isn't an argument, just an admission of ignorance.

LTC in particular is punching far above its weight class in terms of market cap vs volume:

Bitcoin  $ 4,916,312,384    $ 11,867,000    
Litecoin $ 121,242,367    $ 1,628,240

I see you are a newb who just registered this year, so you can't be expected to remember LTC went to the moon last time BTC suffered a bit of technical difficulty in the form of a chain fork.   Grin

There is no silver to BTC, no copper, no aluminum.

There is only one.

Altcoins Aren't Money, They're Bitcoin's Casino
http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/altcoins-are-not-coins/
http://blog.oleganza.com/post/54121516413/the-universe-wants-one-money
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-coming-demise-of-altcoins/

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 07:17:23 PM
 #17974


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency. 

 Cheesy

You don't really believe these things you write do you?

You should know some people have motives beyond financial gains.



I absolutely believe this.

Because if you're depending on gmax luke jr to understand the economics and game theory behind Bitcoin, you're going to have a bad time. 

You can bet these guys are buying tons of BTC off market. But they're venture capitalists, their job is to fund companies, not invest in speculative assets.



They're begging to lose $21M then.

With a fixed supply currency, like Bitcoin, the upward trajectory has and will continue to exceed that of any Bitcoin related company because Bitcoin  is acting to siphon value away from the Forex and gold markets, the biggest on the planet.  That's why your federated server models for alternative assets won't work because ppl will hold BTC until the last moment before taking advantage of any theoretical benefit on those servers. There would be an opportunity cost, along with security cost to leaving it on a federated.
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November 23, 2014, 07:21:22 PM
 #17975

If one would crack Bitcoin they would be stupid to drive the price to zero. You don't kill the goose that lays golden eggs.
Who says Bitcoin can't change it's proof of work algorithm?

BTC is destroying the traditional central/statist banking model and poised to begin the same process of disintermediation for stock exchanges.  Central banking and financial markets are two geese which lay very large golden eggs for some very powerful status quo powers that be.  They have an overwhelming interest in killing BTC before it kills their ability to collect rent.

If you are long Litecoin or otherwise short BTC, driving the price to zero would make you a fortune.

If BTC changes its PoW algorithm, it's not longer BTC because the ASIC-based infrastructure currently securing its blockchain would be useless.

Yes I was implying individuals but I can see governments killing Bitcoin so we can still live in fairytale land Smiley However cracking Bitcoin would also crack their security Smiley

You are implying a fixed relationship between LTC and BTC. This might not always be true. Yes shorting would make you a fortune but milking BTC would make you more since you can sell stolen coins and resteal them.

Why is BTC no longer BTC if the PoW changes? Why are ASICs securing the blockchain? Anyone running the Bitcoin client can process transactions you don't specifically need an ASIC. Before and after all coins are minted people will fight over either the blocks or the transaction fees no matter which PoW scheme is used. If everyone would stop using their ASICs the difficulty would go down and people could process transactions with their GPU or even CPU.

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
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November 23, 2014, 07:35:18 PM
 #17976

They're begging to lose $21M then.

With a fixed supply currency, like Bitcoin, the upward trajectory has and will continue to exceed that of any Bitcoin related company because Bitcoin  is acting to siphon value away from the Forex and gold markets, the biggest on the planet.  That's why your federated server models for alternative assets won't work because ppl will hold BTC until the last moment before taking advantage of any theoretical benefit on those servers. There would be an opportunity cost, along with security cost to leaving it on a federated.

I agree with the first part, but that's beside the point. Some people have motives beyond financial gains.

These investors are worth billions, you think they give a damn about losing 1 million? This is a seed round. You're clowning this place acting as if Blockstream has billions to pay back investors and are desperate to "sell" sidechains to everyone.

If you don't believe these tech billionaires don't have their own small stash of Bitcoins "just in case" you are fooling no one but yourself.

I'm still trying to figure out the absurdity of your last claim. As for you what you have yet to figure out it seems is that there are a uses for sidechains beyond tying them to speculative assets. Like, tons of them.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 07:43:04 PM
 #17977

Why is BTC no longer BTC if the PoW changes? Why are ASICs securing the blockchain? Anyone running the Bitcoin client can process transactions you don't specifically need an ASIC. Before and after all coins are minted people will fight over either the blocks or the transaction fees no matter which PoW scheme is used. If everyone would stop using their ASICs the difficulty would go down and people could process transactions with their GPU or even CPU.

ASIC are securing blockchains in order to mine coins.

Absent BTC's massive advantage in network security provided by ASICs, it becomes just another crypto, subject to much more feasible 51% attacks.

There is no silver to BTC, no copper, no aluminum.

There is only one.

That's for the market to decide, not silly greenhorn noobs like you.

If you had been around longer, you'd realize your argument is exactly the same as what the Buttcoiners say about BTC ('It's a ponzi casino funny Monopoly money scam and the US dollar will be king forever').


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
brg444
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November 23, 2014, 07:48:24 PM
 #17978

Why is BTC no longer BTC if the PoW changes? Why are ASICs securing the blockchain? Anyone running the Bitcoin client can process transactions you don't specifically need an ASIC. Before and after all coins are minted people will fight over either the blocks or the transaction fees no matter which PoW scheme is used. If everyone would stop using their ASICs the difficulty would go down and people could process transactions with their GPU or even CPU.

ASIC are securing blockchains in order to mine coins.

Absent BTC's massive advantage in network security provided by ASICs, it becomes just another crypto, subject to much more feasible 51% attacks.

There is no silver to BTC, no copper, no aluminum.

There is only one.

That's for the market to decide, not silly greenhorn noobs like you.

If you had been around longer, you'd realize your argument is exactly the same as what the Buttcoiners say about BTC ('It's a ponzi casino funny Monopoly money scam and the US dollar will be king forever').

No these are simply the rules of economics and the network effect of money/value.

Money substitutes existed because of physical limitations of traditional money, amongst other things.

Digital money has none of these limitations. I'm sorry for you if after so many more years than me looking at and investing in Bitcoin you still have not come to that conclusion.

There absolutely needs to be one ledger to rule them all. One to be trusted.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 23, 2014, 08:30:46 PM
 #17979

Why is BTC no longer BTC if the PoW changes? Why are ASICs securing the blockchain? Anyone running the Bitcoin client can process transactions you don't specifically need an ASIC. Before and after all coins are minted people will fight over either the blocks or the transaction fees no matter which PoW scheme is used. If everyone would stop using their ASICs the difficulty would go down and people could process transactions with their GPU or even CPU.

ASIC are securing blockchains in order to mine coins.

Absent BTC's massive advantage in network security provided by ASICs, it becomes just another crypto, subject to much more feasible 51% attacks.

There is no silver to BTC, no copper, no aluminum.

There is only one.

That's for the market to decide, not silly greenhorn noobs like you.

If you had been around longer, you'd realize your argument is exactly the same as what the Buttcoiners say about BTC ('It's a ponzi casino funny Monopoly money scam and the US dollar will be king forever').

No these are simply the rules of economics and the network effect of money/value.

Money substitutes existed because of physical limitations of traditional money, amongst other things.

Digital money has none of these limitations. I'm sorry for you if after so many more years than me looking at and investing in Bitcoin you still have not come to that conclusion.

There absolutely needs to be one ledger to rule them all. One to be trusted.
.

Yes,  and that does not include SC's. At least how they're proposed.
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November 23, 2014, 08:33:39 PM
 #17980

Why is BTC no longer BTC if the PoW changes? Why are ASICs securing the blockchain? Anyone running the Bitcoin client can process transactions you don't specifically need an ASIC. Before and after all coins are minted people will fight over either the blocks or the transaction fees no matter which PoW scheme is used. If everyone would stop using their ASICs the difficulty would go down and people could process transactions with their GPU or even CPU.

ASIC are securing blockchains in order to mine coins.

Absent BTC's massive advantage in network security provided by ASICs, it becomes just another crypto, subject to much more feasible 51% attacks.

There is no silver to BTC, no copper, no aluminum.

There is only one.

That's for the market to decide, not silly greenhorn noobs like you.

If you had been around longer, you'd realize your argument is exactly the same as what the Buttcoiners say about BTC ('It's a ponzi casino funny Monopoly money scam and the US dollar will be king forever').

No these are simply the rules of economics and the network effect of money/value.

Money substitutes existed because of physical limitations of traditional money, amongst other things.

Digital money has none of these limitations. I'm sorry for you if after so many more years than me looking at and investing in Bitcoin you still have not come to that conclusion.

There absolutely needs to be one ledger to rule them all. One to be trusted.
.

Yes,  and that does not include SC's. At least how they're proposed.

Sidechains ledgers are derived from and can reconcile with the main ledger on the protocol level.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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