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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1950751 times)
Odalv
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November 23, 2014, 11:08:21 PM
 #18001

Splitting the currency unit from the blockchain? Who's lame brain idea is that anyways?

1. It is crystal clear that you will not stop Blockstream devs from implementing SPV proof.
2. I'm quite sure that OP_SIDECHAINVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very very fast. -> they have no problem to take fees in BTC verifying side chain data.
3. I want to ask you -> what will you do then ?

does it matter?

I am curious. Maybe you are just paid by Blockstream to use inverted psychology and you are only advertising SC.

Is this your real intentions ? (advertise and adopt SC ?)

there would have to be a much easier to do that if true.

given all my arguments, it is quite clear what my concerns are and that i think SC's are a bad idea.

so what will you do in this case Huh (it is 1 of N possible cases)
1. Blockstream devs will implement SPV proof.
2. OP_SIDECHAINPROOFVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very fast. (let's say it will take 1 month)


the spvp is no where near being implemented.  much work needs to be done, afaik.

btw, i asked you before but never got an answer.  what mathematical proof is being used for the 2wp with all these federated servers you're claiming are in use?

Federated servers use multisig (bitcoin already support multisig). One server(one owner) has one signature. You choose how much server do you trust N and how many of them have to sign M.  => M of N  ( eq. 3 of 5 )

can you answer now ? "what will you do then ? "
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cypherdoc
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November 23, 2014, 11:10:44 PM
 #18002

Splitting the currency unit from the blockchain? Who's lame brain idea is that anyways?

1. It is crystal clear that you will not stop Blockstream devs from implementing SPV proof.
2. I'm quite sure that OP_SIDECHAINVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very very fast. -> they have no problem to take fees in BTC verifying side chain data.
3. I want to ask you -> what will you do then ?

does it matter?

I am curious. Maybe you are just paid by Blockstream to use inverted psychology and you are only advertising SC.

Is this your real intentions ? (advertise and adopt SC ?)

there would have to be a much easier to do that if true.

given all my arguments, it is quite clear what my concerns are and that i think SC's are a bad idea.

so what will you do in this case Huh (it is 1 of N possible cases)
1. Blockstream devs will implement SPV proof.
2. OP_SIDECHAINPROOFVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very fast. (let's say it will take 1 month)


the spvp is no where near being implemented.  much work needs to be done, afaik.

btw, i asked you before but never got an answer.  what mathematical proof is being used for the 2wp with all these federated servers you're claiming are in use?

Federated servers use multisig (bitcoin already support multisig). One server(one owner) has one signature. You choose how much server do you trust N and how many of them have to sign M.  => M of N  ( eq. 3 of 5 )

can you answer now ? "what will you do then ? "

ah, that's interesting.

it doesn't matter what i do.  i'm irrelevant, remember?
BlindMayorBitcorn
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November 23, 2014, 11:13:21 PM
 #18003

I keep clicking on your thread thinking it's my thread Grin


Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
Odalv
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November 23, 2014, 11:19:47 PM
 #18004

Splitting the currency unit from the blockchain? Who's lame brain idea is that anyways?

1. It is crystal clear that you will not stop Blockstream devs from implementing SPV proof.
2. I'm quite sure that OP_SIDECHAINVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very very fast. -> they have no problem to take fees in BTC verifying side chain data.
3. I want to ask you -> what will you do then ?

does it matter?

I am curious. Maybe you are just paid by Blockstream to use inverted psychology and you are only advertising SC.

Is this your real intentions ? (advertise and adopt SC ?)

there would have to be a much easier to do that if true.

given all my arguments, it is quite clear what my concerns are and that i think SC's are a bad idea.

so what will you do in this case Huh (it is 1 of N possible cases)
1. Blockstream devs will implement SPV proof.
2. OP_SIDECHAINPROOFVERIFY will be accepted by majority of miners very fast. (let's say it will take 1 month)


the spvp is no where near being implemented.  much work needs to be done, afaik.

btw, i asked you before but never got an answer.  what mathematical proof is being used for the 2wp with all these federated servers you're claiming are in use?

Federated servers use multisig (bitcoin already support multisig). One server(one owner) has one signature. You choose how much server do you trust N and how many of them have to sign M.  => M of N  ( eq. 3 of 5 )

can you answer now ? "what will you do then ? "

ah, that's interesting.

it doesn't matter what i do.  i'm irrelevant, remember?

You have the rights
a) do not use it
b) troll at bitcointalk
c) ... 1 million other options :-)  .. and that is my question "what will you do then ? "
tabnloz
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November 24, 2014, 04:28:18 AM
 #18005

Following on from yesterday re: CB's, currency, govt etc. Here is head of Russia's CB (and Putins former economics advisor) announcing to Russian parliament that they have purchased 150 tons of gold.

Quote form article:

This announcement is unusual and to our knowledge has not happened before. The announcement by the Russian central bank governor was likely coordinated with Putin and the Kremlin and designed to signal how Russia views their gold reserves as a potential geopolitical and indeed financial and currency war weapon.

https://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20141119160332-16388259-gold-rises-after-unusual-russian-gold-buying-announcement

The old school still view the world through this gold prism. Lets hope through necessity Bitcoin changes that
Melbustus
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November 24, 2014, 05:47:43 AM
 #18006

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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November 24, 2014, 06:01:39 AM
 #18007

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).


I think we can do it within a decade.

We'd need Bitcoin to shoot past gold's market cap.

It won't be so much economic rationality that awakens them from their slumber but economic reality. It's a long way down for gold IMO

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
sickpig
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November 24, 2014, 07:54:02 AM
 #18008

It's a long way down for gold IMO

Eventually I found out somehing both you and cypher agree on :-)

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 04:29:29 PM
 #18009

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.
Cortex7
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November 24, 2014, 05:14:15 PM
 #18010

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).


It's not a sentimental thing, Gold's a little deeper than that, it does have POW behind it and a very long history of working just fine because of it.

I would argue that "youngsters" stupidly tolerate fiat, over 99% of people haven't a clue what money is. I'd take a 10 year position in gold over toilet paper any day.

Gold and Bitcoin are pretty similar economically. Fiat is our common enemy, but nobody seems to mind it too much, someone was lauding the emergence of "cryptofiat" recently, I told him it was an oxymoron.

Pierre11
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November 24, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
 #18011

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.

Thanks for the link, will be an interesting and insightful read hopefully.

edit, so far, it is.
unpure
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November 24, 2014, 05:25:47 PM
 #18012

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.

Too many frauds and unregulated securities.

Even successful one cut investors out of the profit.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
 #18013

Reggie Middleton gets it.  even tho i disapprove of Ultracoin, at least his headline about Bitcoin is correct.  Bitcoin is set to consume fiat currency ala the Forex and gold markets.  why screw it all up by letting a conflicted financially motivated company called Blockstream insert a source code change that will change the mining equilibrium for sure and, as i submit, Bitcoins Sound Money principles based on the inextricable link btwn the currency unit and the blockchain?:

Faith, Math and Circular Logic: Why Bitcoin is More Valuable Than ANY Fiat Currency Today!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-24/faith-math-and-circular-logic-why-bitcoin-more-valuable-any-fiat-currency-today
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:29:58 PM
 #18014

this is why Bitcoin is destined to succeed; as long as we don't screw it up as Sound Money:

“Having analyzed this malware and looked at the [previously published] Snowden documents,” Prins said, “I’m convinced Regin is used by British and American intelligence services.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/24/secret-regin-malware-belgacom-nsa-gchq/

govt's worldwide are growing increasingly mistrustful of the NSA and GCHQ.  there will never be a worldwide ban on Bitcoin.
chriswilmer
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November 24, 2014, 06:30:58 PM
 #18015

Can we start posting about gold, stocks, and bitcoin again?
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:37:24 PM
 #18016

Can we start posting about gold, stocks, and bitcoin again?

we or me?

my shadow assassin has been taking up all my time.
Odalv
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November 24, 2014, 06:57:10 PM
 #18017


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.



cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 07:08:42 PM
 #18018


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.





maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 07:25:56 PM
 #18019

more evidence of exactly where Bitcoin wants to position itself.  forget speculative assets (anything not BTC):

"With [ECB President Mario] Draghi and [BOJ Gov. Haruhiko] Kuroda torpedoing China’s exports with bales of currency, Beijing may feel compelled to fire back," Arnold writes.

"All this money-printing would mean even more credit to Asia’s smaller economies and its weakest borrowers. But to those hopeful this brewing currency war would be good for Asia’s economies or real stock-market returns, a word of advice: curb your enthusiasm."


Barron's Arnold: China Currency War Would Be Bad for Asia

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Barrons-Asia-currency-war-dollar/2014/11/22/id/609026/
Adrian-x
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November 24, 2014, 07:26:58 PM
 #18020


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.


no, you've overlooked why we want Bitcoin it's not because we want to get rich. That's a bonus you get for doing the right thing.
Farmers and merchants do a great job, they need better money, they don't need added layers of trust,  they just need better money to be better at planning what they do. And you won't value or trust there goods and services any more, if you need to use a sidechain to interact with or secure your interaction with them.

Wow, you got me thinking I see SC as the perfect way to run a Monopsony, or cooperative. This market monopoly approach would be ideal way to manage many suplyers in a free and open social network based market.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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