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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010894 times)
Melbustus
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November 24, 2014, 05:47:43 AM
 #18001

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
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brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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November 24, 2014, 06:01:39 AM
 #18002

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).


I think we can do it within a decade.

We'd need Bitcoin to shoot past gold's market cap.

It won't be so much economic rationality that awakens them from their slumber but economic reality. It's a long way down for gold IMO

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 24, 2014, 07:54:02 AM
 #18003

It's a long way down for gold IMO

Eventually I found out somehing both you and cypher agree on :-)

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 04:29:29 PM
 #18004

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.
Cortex7
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November 24, 2014, 05:14:15 PM
 #18005

...
The old school still view the world through this gold prism.
...


Yeah, that can probably go on for a few more decades. The youngest people who remember dollars as being tied to gold in their everyday life are probably in their 50-60s now. So another 20-30 years before those who viscerally internalize gold as money no longer run humanity to any meaningful degree. So the question for the next 20-30 years is: will economic rationality win out, or will those visceral childhood associations, and the power wielded by those who have them, be enough for a monetary resurgence of gold? I think it's a coin toss (and not a gold coin; too heavy).

Kinda doesn't matter, though, in the bitcoin vs gold discussion. Upside potential for bitcoin is considerably larger, with, in my opinion, greater probability of hitting the success case. The only spot where gold shines is if you want to be certain that your holding won't go to zero in the next 20-30 years (could still go -80%, though).


It's not a sentimental thing, Gold's a little deeper than that, it does have POW behind it and a very long history of working just fine because of it.

I would argue that "youngsters" stupidly tolerate fiat, over 99% of people haven't a clue what money is. I'd take a 10 year position in gold over toilet paper any day.

Gold and Bitcoin are pretty similar economically. Fiat is our common enemy, but nobody seems to mind it too much, someone was lauding the emergence of "cryptofiat" recently, I told him it was an oxymoron.
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November 24, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
 #18006

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.

Thanks for the link, will be an interesting and insightful read hopefully.

edit, so far, it is.
unpure
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November 24, 2014, 05:25:47 PM
 #18007

here's why you're better off just buying BTC instead of investing into Bitcoin companies:

http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/the-correct-strategy-of-bitcoin-entrepreneurship/

yes, this is for you Blockstream.

Too many frauds and unregulated securities.

Even successful one cut investors out of the profit.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
 #18008

Reggie Middleton gets it.  even tho i disapprove of Ultracoin, at least his headline about Bitcoin is correct.  Bitcoin is set to consume fiat currency ala the Forex and gold markets.  why screw it all up by letting a conflicted financially motivated company called Blockstream insert a source code change that will change the mining equilibrium for sure and, as i submit, Bitcoins Sound Money principles based on the inextricable link btwn the currency unit and the blockchain?:

Faith, Math and Circular Logic: Why Bitcoin is More Valuable Than ANY Fiat Currency Today!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-24/faith-math-and-circular-logic-why-bitcoin-more-valuable-any-fiat-currency-today
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:29:58 PM
 #18009

this is why Bitcoin is destined to succeed; as long as we don't screw it up as Sound Money:

“Having analyzed this malware and looked at the [previously published] Snowden documents,” Prins said, “I’m convinced Regin is used by British and American intelligence services.”

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/11/24/secret-regin-malware-belgacom-nsa-gchq/

govt's worldwide are growing increasingly mistrustful of the NSA and GCHQ.  there will never be a worldwide ban on Bitcoin.
chriswilmer
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November 24, 2014, 06:30:58 PM
 #18010

Can we start posting about gold, stocks, and bitcoin again?
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 06:37:24 PM
 #18011

Can we start posting about gold, stocks, and bitcoin again?

we or me?

my shadow assassin has been taking up all my time.
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November 24, 2014, 06:57:10 PM
 #18012


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.



cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 07:08:42 PM
 #18013


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.





maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.
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November 24, 2014, 07:25:56 PM
 #18014

more evidence of exactly where Bitcoin wants to position itself.  forget speculative assets (anything not BTC):

"With [ECB President Mario] Draghi and [BOJ Gov. Haruhiko] Kuroda torpedoing China’s exports with bales of currency, Beijing may feel compelled to fire back," Arnold writes.

"All this money-printing would mean even more credit to Asia’s smaller economies and its weakest borrowers. But to those hopeful this brewing currency war would be good for Asia’s economies or real stock-market returns, a word of advice: curb your enthusiasm."


Barron's Arnold: China Currency War Would Be Bad for Asia

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/Barrons-Asia-currency-war-dollar/2014/11/22/id/609026/
Adrian-x
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November 24, 2014, 07:26:58 PM
 #18015


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.


no, you've overlooked why we want Bitcoin it's not because we want to get rich. That's a bonus you get for doing the right thing.
Farmers and merchants do a great job, they need better money, they don't need added layers of trust,  they just need better money to be better at planning what they do. And you won't value or trust there goods and services any more, if you need to use a sidechain to interact with or secure your interaction with them.

Wow, you got me thinking I see SC as the perfect way to run a Monopsony, or cooperative. This market monopoly approach would be ideal way to manage many suplyers in a free and open social network based market.


Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
Odalv
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November 24, 2014, 07:28:30 PM
 #18016


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.





maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.

If we all stop working and we will be only waiting then there will be nothing you will be able to buy with bitcoin.
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 07:35:29 PM
 #18017

listen carefully to this Keynote by James Grant at the 32nd Annual Monetary Conference at the Cato.  i subbed to his Grants: Interest Rate Observer for years.  he is one smart guy.  here, he clearly articulates what the major problem in finance is today:  Sound Money.  this is what Bitcoin was meant to solve:

http://www.cato.org/multimedia/events/32nd-annual-monetary-conference-opening-keynote
Adrian-x
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November 24, 2014, 07:38:16 PM
 #18018


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.



maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.

If we all stop working and we will be only waiting then there will be nothing you will be able to buy with bitcoin.


Here understanding the economics is important. If everyone stopped working the demand for the lack in skills would increase, and the demand would reflect in the cost of goods and services.

Having hard money would allow the market to react efficiently.

At the moment we are over supplied with cheep goods and services provided by corporations who have access to or the ability to create cheap fiat.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
cypherdoc
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November 24, 2014, 07:41:15 PM
 #18019


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.





maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.

If we all stop working and we will be only waiting then there will be nothing you will be able to buy with bitcoin.


you're smarter than this.  i'm not talking about absolutes here where everyone would want to invest in Bitcoin.  i'm talking about Bitcoiner's; the one's who care about this stuff we're doing here.  

as Adrian says above, those farmers will always love farming.  that is what they do best.  however, if Bitcoin takes over as the global reserve currency and farming becomes denominated in BTC, their lives will improve orders of magnitude.  look at them now; forced to hedge continually in financial markets through rigged futures markets that are just as volatile and unpredictable as Bitcoin.  all those business cycles they have to endure all facilitated by fiat printing by the Fed.  all that shit would go away with Bitcoin as sound money.
Odalv
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November 24, 2014, 08:00:34 PM
 #18020


The cynic in me would consider whether all the trolling you are doing here is for the benefit of the Blockstream investment pool to get some low-cost Due Diligence work out of us.  The sort of analysis you are getting from some of the folks here is pure gold. Wink

And my advice to Blockstream investors is to shut the company down now while you still have a chance and buy $21M worth of bitcoin right now while we're at a long term bottom.

The reason? There's no way in hell any bitcoin company will ever be able to outperform the BTC currency.  

Maybe farmer do better if he stops farming ... sells everything and only buys bitcoin.

Same must be best for merchant. He has to sell all goods and only buys bitcoin.





maybe so.

what investment in the world has done better than Bitcoin since its birth in 2009?   answer:  nothing.

plus, given all the fiat that has been and is being wasted in Bitcoin startups, altcoins, appcoins, that is how you tell we are not in a bubble.

If we all stop working and we will be only waiting then there will be nothing you will be able to buy with bitcoin.


you're smarter than this.  i'm not talking about absolutes here where everyone would want to invest in Bitcoin.  i'm talking about Bitcoiner's; the one's who care about this stuff we're doing here.  

as Adrian says above, those farmers will always love farming.  that is what they do best. however, if Bitcoin takes over as the global reserve currency and farming becomes denominated in BTC, their lives will improve orders of magnitude.  look at them now; forced to hedge continually in financial markets through rigged futures markets that are just as volatile and unpredictable as Bitcoin.  all those business cycles they have to endure all facilitated by fiat printing by the Fed.  all that shit would go away with Bitcoin as sound money.

those crypto anarchists from Blockstream will always love to improve crypto currency. that is what they do best ... and they was building crypto for
decades.

SC is really amazing idea.  SCs + MC together create great new blockchain 2.0.  So try to look at it  "block-chain-2 = MC + N*SC".   And  BTC(currency) is not separated from block-chain but Blockstream found a way how to improve old block-chain.
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