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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013826 times)
Melbustus
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November 27, 2014, 06:01:44 PM
 #18081

if Citi's William Buiter can think of Bitcoin as gold, why can't we?  this is THE opportunity we cannot afford NOT to seize going forward:

"Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny bitcoin," he wrote in his note to clients.

http://www.coindesk.com/citi-chief-economist-bitcoin-closest-commodity-gold/

This is the Chief Economist of Citibank panicking that their huge naked short position on paper gold could be a mistake. 

He just sold any credibility that he had with this.  He says:  Gold has no intrinsic value (like bitcoin), and that the Swiss Central Bank should instead buy derivatives and ETFs...

He is a tool, and anyone that follows his advice is a fool.

I do see a reason to buy the ETFs and derivatives though, when Citi and the rest have to unwind their positions, being leveraged on the right side of that trade will be worth a lot, but since you and I don't know when that is going to happen, why buy the paper with its time-costs?

Stick to bitcoin, and the PM phys.  Hodl a balanced portfolio of those and then when BTC surges, you can re-balance a little, if you like.


Anyone who gets hung up on notions of "intrinsic value" shouldn't be talking about money or economics. It's nuts that Citi's Chief Economist has these hang-ups. While it's nice that he's at least realized gold doesn't have some will-always-be-super-valuable status, he hasn't yet realized that the concept of intrinsic value is just a weird, very limiting, term for a specific type of demand. How he can think about economics every day and not come to this realization is beyond me.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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cypherdoc
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November 27, 2014, 06:07:43 PM
 #18082

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/
adamstgBit
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November 27, 2014, 06:16:13 PM
 #18083

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

cypherdoc
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November 27, 2014, 06:23:30 PM
 #18084

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

let your imagination run free, young Jedi.
sickpig
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November 27, 2014, 07:27:08 PM
 #18085

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

Adam you're back, I'm glad. I was worried I feel better now.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
ssmc2
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November 27, 2014, 07:40:53 PM
 #18086

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

I imagine the leap from rock scooping to mining is much less than the leap from just viewing asteroids with a telescope to being able to land on one.
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November 27, 2014, 08:33:57 PM
 #18087

i used to think asteroid mining for gold was a joke until Philae:

http://www.valuewalk.com/2014/11/nasa-investigating-asteroid-mining/

scoping a few rock samples off the face of an asteroid  !=  mining

I imagine the leap from rock scooping to mining is much less than the leap from just viewing asteroids with a telescope to being able to land on one.

You never know when you will get caught out by a new innovation. There is a minuscule amount of gold in each gallon of sea water. However there must be hundreds of tons of gold in an ocean.

Anyone who figures out how to extract it will be rich. Starting it up might be a little cheaper than sending mining rockets to asteroids too.
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November 27, 2014, 10:25:23 PM
 #18088

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.
cbeast
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November 27, 2014, 11:54:52 PM
 #18089

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.
It seems to be a reasonable Op-ed.

Quote
But the resources consumed in this process are necessary, given the safeguards that have to enforced to ensure the integrity of the payment system.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Peter R
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November 27, 2014, 11:55:21 PM
 #18090

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

How is this a fail?  David Andolfatto is pointing out that bitcoin miners serve a more socially-useful purpose than gold miners: bitcoin miners process transactions and secure the ledger (in addition to finding new bitcoins), while gold miners just find new gold.  In other words, the resources spent mining bitcoin are a necessary evil while the resources spent mining gold aren't (because we don't need gold miners to find new gold in order for the "gold ledger" to remain secure and for gold to be useful as a medium of exchange).  

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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November 28, 2014, 01:11:42 AM
 #18091

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

This is all so funny, David Andolfatto doesn't seem to be advocating Bitcoin over gold he also has a narrow understanding of Bitcoin Mining incentives, more over he seems to be supporting the pro fiat argument by criticizing the Bitcoin gold analogy in Willem Buiter City - paper. notably overlooked is the possibility of a Fiat bubble.  

Quote from: Willem Buiter - Gold: a six thousand year-old bubble revisited
Gold as an asset is equivalent to shiny Bitcoin.

Central bank fiat paper currency and fiat electronic currency are socially superior to gold and Bitcoin as currencies and assets.

I just smell the fear, he's loving quantitative easing a little too much, and still trying to justify Bitcoins relevance. this looks like the "then they laugh at you" stage, and the binging of "Grief, stage 3 Bargaining"

I'm thinking Bitcoin is still strong but in for a rough ride if these types have any influence we may be testing the bottom over the next few months.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
STT
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November 28, 2014, 03:17:55 AM
 #18092

Mining of gold keeps it relative to the wider economy.  A large part of gold costs are the price of oil to fuel various machines and the smelting.    If gold were a totally enclosed market its price would be less accurate.
Also the availability of gold does relate to its trading use as not just one country has control of it, its a widely distributed element.

We recognise that in bitcoin, that if all mining becomes based in China ASIC farms that there is a danger the network is no longer as secure.  Distributed peer to peer transactions help improve accuracy and reliability of the total bitcoin worth and market effectiveness.   Mining in gold and the possibility of even the relatively amateur masses to find gold does help keep it a peoples currency not just central bank vault candy.  

 Capitalism is the widely distributed and equal worth of a currency freely exchanged, we are living in a world of QE and central controlled worth and we no longer recognise what capitalism was



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cypherdoc
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November 28, 2014, 03:41:48 AM
 #18093

Fleeing from rubles:

Adrian-x
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November 28, 2014, 03:55:30 AM
 #18094


That's interesting.

I'm surprised the Ukraine hasn't kicked in with some demand for BTC, apparently BTC has been available at over 4900 ATM's and they're seeing double digit fiat inflation. Not to mention the The National Bank over there prohibiting the use of Bitcoin in direct exchange for goods and services. So obviously taking precautions to protect it's fiat but Bitcon still available as an investment.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
smooth
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November 28, 2014, 10:10:24 AM
 #18095

http://wallstreetpit.com/106363-the-false-analogy-between-gold-and-bitcoin/

The fails just keep on coming. I love his note at the bottom.

How is this a fail?  David Andolfatto is pointing out that bitcoin miners serve a more socially-useful purpose than gold miners: bitcoin miners process transactions and secure the ledger (in addition to finding new bitcoins), while gold miners just find new gold.  In other words, the resources spent mining bitcoin are a necessary evil while the resources spent mining gold aren't (because we don't need gold miners to find new gold in order for the "gold ledger" to remain secure and for gold to be useful as a medium of exchange).  

Gold mining is necessary as well. Without an ongoing completive effort at mining, there is no way to know that gold is really as scarce as we think it is.



smooth
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November 28, 2014, 10:12:24 AM
 #18096

You never know when you will get caught out by a new innovation. There is a minuscule amount of gold in each gallon of sea water. However there must be hundreds of tons of gold in an ocean.

More like millions of tons! source

NewLiberty
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November 28, 2014, 11:36:46 AM
 #18097

You never know when you will get caught out by a new innovation. There is a minuscule amount of gold in each gallon of sea water. However there must be hundreds of tons of gold in an ocean.

More like millions of tons! source

Combine with wave power energy generators...
http://www.pelamiswave.com/

You can mine gold from the water that flows through the area, and if the gold concentration falls you can use the electricity to mine bitcoin and the water for cooling.

So who's in?

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
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cypherdoc
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November 28, 2014, 03:54:09 PM
 #18098

Gold collapsing.  Bitcoin UP.
cypherdoc
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November 28, 2014, 05:54:18 PM
 #18099

perhaps the most important chart of the day:

3eme
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November 28, 2014, 06:51:45 PM
 #18100

What do you guys make of the recent negative GOFO rate, could the bullion banks be about to default? paper gold prices could well collapse but physical metal will trade at astronomic levels

https://www.quandl.com/OFDP/GOLD_3-LBMA-Gold-Forward-Offered-Rates-GOFO
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