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News: Due to BIP91, it would starting now be prudent to require 5 times more confirmations than usual before trusting transactions.
 
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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1935279 times)
tvbcof
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November 22, 2014, 04:47:24 AM
 #17881

Did gold stop being "Sound Money" when promissary notes arised?

comparing gold to Bitcoin is like comparing a horse buggy to a Ferrari.

Give me the horse and buggy any day if no gas stations are open.

You probably anticipated me saying something like that after the years (literally) that we've been going at it.


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November 22, 2014, 05:31:15 AM
 #17882

Gas station analogous to the internet. Without the net we are back to horse buggy
days and back to good old fashion non exponential growth and innovation!! good and bad

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
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November 22, 2014, 05:58:41 AM
 #17883

Gas station analogous to the internet. Without the net we are back to horse buggy
days and back to good old fashion non exponential growth and innovation!! good and bad
If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. We're going to have pain but the only path forward is with technology some technology's are so important we don't give them up, like the wheal and the plow, I think we'll add the internet to that list too.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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November 22, 2014, 06:07:45 AM
 #17884


If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. ...

Panic!  The sky is falling!  Run for the hills!  (But don't forget to give the 'sustainability' scammers everything they ask for so they might save us from the impending crisis.)

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/


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November 22, 2014, 06:28:56 AM
 #17885


If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. ...

Panic!  The sky is falling!  Run for the hills!  (But don't forget to give the 'sustainability' scammers everything they ask for so they might save us from the impending crisis.)

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

The root to sustainability is hard money, (and redefining personal property) centrally controlled sustainability is as sustainable as the FED. But the science is good we know the problem environments just haven't figured out who's responsible, hint it's not the EPA, or how to control it. (Yip over population is a central control idea)

A little deflation and and money supply contraction will be uncomfortable, we'll figure out what are and aren't priorities very quickly, and all of a sudden paper cups and disposable phones seem like stupid use of resources. There are lots of solutions Bitcoin is my favorite.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
BitMos
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November 22, 2014, 06:32:53 AM
 #17886

The war is more between the different central banks, and less between the governments.
That people confuse these sadly shows how much Bitcoin is a product of its time.
A country is not its currency.

LoL, please stop, same textbooks, same education, same cocktail, same goals, same ideologies: Inflation is good, because it motivates to work more, otherwise you would be lazy and would think to enjoy life. Exactly what a german dude planed. we never left war economies.


"In order to mitigate the potential impact of Bitcoin, the meaning of Article IV, Section 5 could be expanded to include digital currencies. Rather than limiting its scope to currencies used by colonies or overseas territories, the IMF could use Article IV Section 5 to label Bitcoin—or other digital currencies like it—a “separate currency.”159 As such, the IMF could require member nations to pay part of their subscription quota with Bitcoins.160 This would require member nations to purchase Bitcoins independently. They would then contribute that amount to the IMF’s general fund as part of their quota, receiving an amount of their own currency or special drawing rights equal to the value of the Bitcoins paid in exchange.161 In short, expanding the meaning of Article IV, Section 5 would grant the IMF a means of indirectly accumulating Bitcoins through its members."- from the paper quoted above

 Grin

Again is it a joke? You have still faith in those institution like they like to be called? I think it's idiotic. They want SDR, because they can print them... and enjoy life with the inflation (money printing) they do for themselves, meanwhile you have to work for a diminishing return, so they can keep their perks.

  Abolishing the CBs has never been easy.  Few people alive today remember a time when free of such.
As a nation the US struggled against the establishment of government banks repeatedly.  For the last 100 years that struggle has failed.

Exactly as it's an intergrant part of the USMC, and as the USMC is still at war... I don't see a way forward but a big confrontation. Or the USMC wins (which isn't in it's interest, otherwise no more USMC) or the USMC do it's job perfectly, manage the grow of the enemy (is there really an enemy?, or it's just a propaganda war to get a population distraction - management?). Freing humanity from such people is worth it. What ever the cost. it's that or slavery at their mercy.

If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. We're going to have pain but the only path forward is with technology some technology's are so important we don't give them up, like the wheal and the plow, I think we'll add the internet to that list too.

yes of course I have to pay for those that can't control their legs and open them all the time without thinking on how they are gonna raise their children. better to beg. fsa.


money is faster...
Zarathustra
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November 22, 2014, 10:42:10 AM
 #17887


If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. ...

Panic!  The sky is falling!  Run for the hills!  (But don't forget to give the 'sustainability' scammers everything they ask for so they might save us from the impending crisis.)

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

The root to sustainability is hard money, (and redefining personal property) centrally controlled sustainability is as sustainable as the FED. But the science is good we know the problem environments just haven't figured out who's responsible, hint it's not the EPA, or how to control it. (Yip over population is a central control idea)


The root to sustainability is the stateless community, which is anarchy, autarchy and selfsufficiency beyond an economy. An economy has never ever been something different than a "state bastard" (Paul C. Martin). State, money and debt (= organised violence) is the root of the collectivist rise-and-fall-society (communism, feudalism, capitalism, idiotism).

http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/Martin-Symp.pdf

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November 22, 2014, 11:02:53 AM
 #17888


If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. ...

Panic!  The sky is falling!  Run for the hills!  (But don't forget to give the 'sustainability' scammers everything they ask for so they might save us from the impending crisis.)

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/


The greatest anthropocentric and religious bullshit ever. That is as if the gorilla (or the lion) would explain to the other species, that it doesnt matter if they populate the planet by a million or 10 billion individuals (with an equivalent of 50 energy slaves on top of each one = 500 billion).

http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2012/03/28/the-sixth-great-extinction-a-silent-extermination/

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November 22, 2014, 02:32:34 PM
 #17889

http://uncovermichigan.com/content/22019-asteroid-mining-its-way

Gold soon irrelevant?
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November 22, 2014, 04:28:31 PM
 #17890

like i said, just allow Bitcoin to function as Sound Money and we will win!  do not separate the unit from its BC!  think nom, nom, nom...

Bitcoin-transactions will most likely be VAT-exempt in The Netherlands (Dutch Source)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2n2unb/bitcointransactions_will_most_likely_be_vatexempt/
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November 22, 2014, 05:09:09 PM
 #17891

Did gold stop being "Sound Money" when promissory notes arose?
According to Bernanke, yes it stopped.  lol

Ron Paul: "Do you think gold is money?"
Ben Bernanke: "No"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJnL10vZ1Y at 4:25

Federal Reserve Notes are the king of the promissory notes.  People even still call them Dollars.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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November 22, 2014, 05:31:12 PM
 #17892

The war is more between the different central banks, and less between the governments.
That people confuse these sadly shows how much Bitcoin is a product of its time.
A country is not its currency.

LoL, please stop, same textbooks, same education, same cocktail, same goals, same ideologies: Inflation is good, because it motivates to work more, otherwise you would be lazy and would think to enjoy life. Exactly what a german dude planed. we never left war economies.

An economy is also a different thing than a currency.
I don't know if my text book is anything like yours, but maybe a dictionary would help you?  
There are different definitions for all three of these "economy" "currency" "country".

I can't see what point you are making here other than "we never left war economies", I would agree with you on that.
War is typically what ends sound money.  The threat of WWI ended gold and silver current money in the USA and brought the 3rd central bank.

The War of 1812 brought the 2nd.

So yes, for so long as there is a central bank, you can say "we" never left war economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_central_banking_in_the_United_States

My point is slightly different though.  You can end the currency quite nicely without ending the country.
(At least twice so far in the USA, if not counting the Civil War currencies of Lincoln's greenback and the Confederate script - we got 2 new central banks out of that war one for each side, both also ended)

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
BitMos
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November 22, 2014, 05:33:37 PM
 #17893

The root to sustainability is the stateless community, which is anarchy, autarchy and selfsufficiency beyond an economy. An economy has never ever been something different than a "state bastard" (Paul C. Martin). State, money and debt (= organised violence) is the root of the collectivist rise-and-fall-society (communism, feudalism, capitalism, idiotism).

http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/Martin-Symp.pdf

In stateless community there is violence too. The only difference is that you have to do justice yourself. I prefer the efficiency of a giant USMC. I think that people that don't support collectivization of defense have an agenda... that will ultimately result in them being some kind of afg bad warlords. I hope that you will have time to develop counter measure against the Imperial fleets once you start to commit violent act in a pacified territory belonging to the Empire... or else where... I wish you gl, you will need it Cheesy. What's your opinions on Imperialism, and the emperorless Empire version, aka THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

money is faster...
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November 22, 2014, 05:34:12 PM
 #17894


If you've ever thought Bitcoin was in a bubble, you should look at the population explosion, we're at a point were there are more people alive than have ever died in the history of humanity. ...

Panic!  The sky is falling!  Run for the hills!  (But don't forget to give the 'sustainability' scammers everything they ask for so they might save us from the impending crisis.)

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

The root to sustainability is hard money, (and redefining personal property) centrally controlled sustainability is as sustainable as the FED. But the science is good we know the problem environments just haven't figured out who's responsible, hint it's not the EPA, or how to control it. (Yip over population is a central control idea)


The root to sustainability is the stateless community, which is anarchy, autarchy and selfsufficiency beyond an economy. An economy has never ever been something different than a "state bastard" (Paul C. Martin). State, money and debt (= organised violence) is the root of the collectivist rise-and-fall-society (communism, feudalism, capitalism, idiotism).

http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/Martin-Symp.pdf

This understanding is growing, our community is local but interconnected globally. There is a lot of FUD with globalization, it's all to do with centralized global management. But decentralized local and global cooperation is the future.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
brg444
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November 22, 2014, 05:37:07 PM
 #17895

like i said, just allow Bitcoin to function as Sound Money and we will win!  do not separate the unit from its BC!  think nom, nom, nom...

Bitcoin-transactions will most likely be VAT-exempt in The Netherlands (Dutch Source)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2n2unb/bitcointransactions_will_most_likely_be_vatexempt/

 Undecided

How many times are we going to tell you that the unit (value) will be seperated by multiple different schemes whether or not SPVP is implemented.

Also, it matters little what happens of the unit. The concern is where the value is assigned and whether that value is safely stored and congruent with the ledger.

Sound Money is a function of the ledger. If the ledger is distributed on multiple blockchains but is kept intact and secure then the Sound Money property lives on.

edit : maybe you want to adopt the more reasonable or rational stance related to the danger of changing mining incentives. that is at least a defendable opinion.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 22, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
 #17896

The root to sustainability is the stateless community, which is anarchy, autarchy and selfsufficiency beyond an economy. An economy has never ever been something different than a "state bastard" (Paul C. Martin). State, money and debt (= organised violence) is the root of the collectivist rise-and-fall-society (communism, feudalism, capitalism, idiotism).

http://www.miprox.de/Wirtschaft_allgemein/Martin-Symp.pdf

In stateless community there is violence too. The only difference is that you have to do justice yourself. I prefer the efficiency of a giant USMC. I think that people that don't support collectivization of defense have an agenda... that will ultimately result in them being some kind of afg bad warlords. I hope that you will have time to develop counter measure against the Imperial fleets once you start to commit violent act in a pacified territory belonging to the Empire... or else where... I wish you gl, you will need it Cheesy. What's your opinions on Imperialism, and the emperorless Empire version, aka THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?
That has been the case throughout history but the source of all wealth then was land, we have transitioned to a knowledge based source of wealth now, we can always regress but we have an opportunity to move forward.

Introducing Sno-Caps - The People's Cap-And-Trade: http://youtu.be/fCtf9eumuhU
In the video above James D'Angelo, proposes an revolutionary idea, if you stretch your imagination you can envision such a decentralized system being used for property rights, managed by the living. And no need for the Mafia.

And a free anarcho capitalist world could exist without going out of balance.

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November 22, 2014, 05:55:47 PM
 #17897

like i said, just allow Bitcoin to function as Sound Money and we will win!  do not separate the unit from its BC!  think nom, nom, nom...

Bitcoin-transactions will most likely be VAT-exempt in The Netherlands (Dutch Source)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2n2unb/bitcointransactions_will_most_likely_be_vatexempt/

 Undecided

How many times are we going to tell you that the unit (value) will be seperated by multiple different schemes whether or not SPVP is implemented.

Also, it matters little what happens of the unit. The concern is where the value is assigned and whether that value is safely stored and congruent with the ledger.

Sound Money is a function of the ledger. If the ledger is distributed on multiple blockchains but is kept intact and secure then the Sound Money property lives on.

edit : maybe you want to adopt the more reasonable or rational stance related to the danger of changing mining incentives. that is at least a defendable opinion.


There is no we, just an insolent you.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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November 22, 2014, 05:58:25 PM
 #17898

like i said, just allow Bitcoin to function as Sound Money and we will win!  do not separate the unit from its BC!  think nom, nom, nom...

Bitcoin-transactions will most likely be VAT-exempt in The Netherlands (Dutch Source)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2n2unb/bitcointransactions_will_most_likely_be_vatexempt/

 Undecided

How many times are we going to tell you that the unit (value) will be seperated by multiple different schemes whether or not SPVP is implemented.

Also, it matters little what happens of the unit. The concern is where the value is assigned and whether that value is safely stored and congruent with the ledger.

Sound Money is a function of the ledger. If the ledger is distributed on multiple blockchains but is kept intact and secure then the Sound Money property lives on.

edit : maybe you want to adopt the more reasonable or rational stance related to the danger of changing mining incentives. that is at least a defendable opinion.


There is no we, just an insolent you.

I think it is pretty clear that multiple people in this thread have supported this opinion and illustrated why cypher's "theory" holds no ground.

I'm quite sure even yourself have come to that conclusion and would agree to an extent. Of course you have your own concerns but I think it is necessary, if we want to have an honest debate, to recognize that the link between the BTC and the blockchain will inevitably be "seperated", sidechains or not, and one could argue this whole mechanism has existed ever since the introduction of off-chain schemes.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 22, 2014, 06:04:28 PM
 #17899

Sustainability in the context of human survival means we must use our limited resources in more and more innovative ways otherwise we are forced to move to mars.

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
Pay with Bitcoin, ZCash and many more
For more visit Syscoin.org  ★☆★
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November 22, 2014, 06:05:38 PM
 #17900

like i said, just allow Bitcoin to function as Sound Money and we will win!  do not separate the unit from its BC!  think nom, nom, nom...

Bitcoin-transactions will most likely be VAT-exempt in The Netherlands (Dutch Source)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2n2unb/bitcointransactions_will_most_likely_be_vatexempt/

 Undecided

How many times are we going to tell you that the unit (value) will be seperated by multiple different schemes whether or not SPVP is implemented.

Also, it matters little what happens of the unit. The concern is where the value is assigned and whether that value is safely stored and congruent with the ledger.

Sound Money is a function of the ledger. If the ledger is distributed on multiple blockchains but is kept intact and secure then the Sound Money property lives on.


Lets set aside whether "the ledger" can be coherently discussed as being on multiple block chains for now.  I'll continue to think of it as reconcilable multiple ledgers (via SPV), and you can think of it as only one.  We both know what the other means now, I think.

A single block chain is not always "congruent" with itself.  When that happens, we call it a reorganization, or at a smaller level, we get orphaned blocks.
When these reorganizations occur, what remains is the longest chain and a log entry, and life goes on.  Usually when it has happened it is just a few blocks.  On a faster chain it happens more frequently though.

One of the highly sought after SC is for faster transactions.  
Merge mined chains are more vulnerable than those that aren't.

The kept intact and secure part is going to need some work to manage what happens when there is a reorganization occurs that bridges outside the confirmation period.

The Blockstream whitepaper gives this period a day or two.  That may be sufficient to make it mathematically impractical (maybe even if it is merge mined), or it might not.  Or other folks might compete with Blockstream and offer SC with a shorter confirmation period.  There is a lot of flexibility here, a SC can be most anything.

These single-ledger sound-money links can break.  They may not do so anytime soon, but it is one of those risks we want to address.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
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