Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[solex]

Awesome bubble-burst for some schadenfreude...



Of course, without the bailout it's chart would look like Enron, not gold's.

[1714304903]

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[lunarboy]

Our task to fight them, we are doing well.

Actually we don't even need to fight, just build an alternative system that is completely outside of their facist control.

Enough with the BS compromise and 'working with regulators' memes, these are all essentially sops to the facists when examined closely.

The problem being faced is that changing someone's 'money' is a very difficult and in many cases the ideas and concepts are more ingrained and personal than their religion.

what does the adoption curve of Atheism look like ?

[Zarathustra]

it's not just ridiculous, it's dangerous.

yeah.  it just goes to show you how far down the totalitarian rabbit hole these guys have gone.  really scary shit.

This is a war. The so called economy has never been something different than a war, because its root and ground is Organized Violence (state and church). It is the society. Beyond the society of the citizens (which per se is war and collectivism) you'll find the real human, the absence of the society: the community (autarchy, anarchy, self-sufficiency = the absence of the economy).

„We are literally in a race between our ability to build and deploy technology, and their ability to build and deploy laws and treaties. Neither side is likely to back down or wise up until it has definitively lost the race.“

John Gilmore

[cypherdoc]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/04/opinion/julian-assange-on-living-in-a-surveillance-society.html?_r=1&referrer=

[tabnloz]

Keep in mind, this is only what was caught, not what was missed, no telling how much.

True, although bear in mind that "caught" (and fines paid) doesn't necessarily mean guilty in the casual sense either. Often times the actual offense being charged or investigated (and then settled) are technical violations of recordkeeping requirements, failure to follow the bank's own AML policies, etc. These may or may not relate directly to actual criminal activity. This doesn't mean they aren't guilty of course. For example, one reason a bank might settle is to stop the digging before it uncovers something worse.

There shouldn't be this grey area. If you break the law you should be held accountable. If it is technical, then it can be considered, but there should be admissions of guilt and extra compliance required. Unfortunately there are many many instances when the law is broken and the 'guilty' party pays a fine without admitting guilt.  The US prosecutorial bodies have an ironic policy of opting for penalties over prison. It stems from Eric Holder's Clinton era memo (that was actually relatively aggressive - the ironic part) that contained the sentence "prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense". Meant to mean that there may be other ways to punish to stop people losing jobs etc if a company was shut, it became putty in the hands of rooms full of lawyers, especially after the Bush era Arthur Andersen case fell apart.

All in all, it is a case of two systems; if I run a business I can be shut down for any level of infraction and I absolutely will if I defraud the public on a large scale. I won't get a fine (that is less than the profit I made) and not have to admit guilt.

[dnaleor]

Dan Morehead ‏@dan_pantera
Bidding closed for US Marshals #Bitcoin auction.  Pantera placed bids below the market.  Results out tomorrow by 2pm PST.  Probably earlier.

 

markets are not gonna like this

I think Pantera is not going to like it. Tim Draper is nuts for Bitcoin and will bid aggressively.

 

that's also what I'm thinking. Tim or someone else. Pantera, I believe, only bids as a syndicate and I would expect those to bid low

or they publicly say they bid below market but in reality bid higher 
What is "market price" anyway

[cypherdoc]

[cypherdoc]

[NewLiberty]

Awesome bubble-burst for some schadenfreude...



Of course, without the bailout it's chart would look like Enron, not gold's.

That, and the House of Saud bought in at pretty much the post crash low.

[Adrian-x]

Citigroup Chief Economist GOLD is Effectively SHINY BITCOIN  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdUZHgieISc (nothing new but the ideas peculating into the public sphere.)

[NewLiberty]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

[Adrian-x]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

[Kupsi]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

Tourism

[Adrian-x]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

Tourism

nice, that's a good one, it has a few drawbacks to over come, Virgin loosing a pilot defiantly put a dampener on space tourism, and I think Ebola is working to minimize the will to sit in confined spaces and travel to Africa.

One needs to catch people - get them to book - when they are feeling rich, so boom bust cycles for tourism may coincide with Bitcoin growth spurts, (bitcoin may prove to be a little unstable as a SoV over there if 3rd world tourist destinations are buying at the tops.)

[Kupsi]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

Tourism

nice, that's a good one, it has a few drawbacks to over come, Virgin loosing a pilot defiantly put a dampener on space tourism, and I think Ebola is working to minimize the will to sit in confined spaces and travel to Africa.

One needs to catch people - get them to book - when they are feeling rich, so boom bust cycles for tourism may coincide with Bitcoin growth spurts, (bitcoin may prove to be a little unstable as a SoV over there if 3rd world tourist destinations are buying at the tops.)

According to coinmap.org there are 130 places which take bitcoin in Buenos Aires. Argentina had 5.28 million visitors in 2010 according to Wikipedia. If everyone left some bits there...

And we have BitPagos

https://www.bitpagos.com/en/

[NewLiberty]

Places where Bitcoin use should be expanded.
For the health and welfare of the people.

There is a challenge, it is unlikely that any of the nations on that list have mined a lot of Bitcoins.
So there are very few ways Bitcoin can find there way there. it is likely most of those on the list have very stringent exchange controls so buying Bitcoin to import is difficult.

Quite a few have cheep energy cost, so mining could be a viable way to export cheep subsidized electricity. (I've glanced at Ukraine and suspect while bitcoin is readily available its probably very expensive when sold at one of over 4000 ATM's, and some one has taken advantage of the there highly subsidized electricity - GHash.io possibly paying as low as $0.026 US per kWh )

As for the majority though energy costs are relatively high given the cost of living so entrepreneurs might find it more practical to find a commodity to export in-order to earn Bitcoin. (ie they are going to be slow to adopt) Surprisingly Canada electricity cost in comparison with cost of living is surprisingly cheep.

Just looking at these numbers there are some great opportunities, Egypt stands out, if you could come up with a decentralized mining solution that substituted for some existing electric heating application, you could employ a nation wide distributed mining farm for just pennies per kWh.  

Please consider whether it would be a more ore interesting comparison than:
Mining-electricity cost / Cost of living
would be
Mining-electricity cost / local value of bitcoin

I suspect that anyone that has expenses in the local currencies of these countries would do VERY well to be mining, as bitcoin would trade at a high premium in places where inflation is high. 

So Venezuela in particular, where energy is highly subsidized, should be a Bitcoin Mining Boom Town.

[Adrian-x]

Please consider whether it would be a more ore interesting comparison than:
Mining-electricity cost / Cost of living
would be
Mining-electricity cost / local value of bitcoin

I suspect that anyone that has expenses in the local currencies of these countries would do VERY well to be mining, as bitcoin would trade at a high premium in places where inflation is high.  

So Venezuela in particular, where energy is highly subsidized, should be a Bitcoin Mining Boom Town.

Thinking about it Mining-electricity cost / Cost of living is just a relative risk criteria.
The cool thing with Bitcoin is it's global so the biggest markets set the price and local markets just adapt to supply and demand the more effective the exchange controls and the more oppressive the inflation the higher the premium on Bitcoin.

The great thing about mining in those places is you are forced to cover your overhead in those markets. So adoption is almost a product of doing Bitcoin business there. And profits can move freely on the blockchain.

Those Venezuelans if they new it should be importing mining equipment or we should be setting up mining farms over there. Help them export that subsidized electricity.

I'm also liking https://www.bitpagos.com/en/ business idea.

[NewLiberty]

Help them export that subsidized electricity.

This...
And preserve the economic liberty of those that "get it" in country.

Folks who have expenses elsewhere are not so keen on taking the Venezuelan Bolivar especially when it looks like it could get "stepped on" :
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=VEF&view=10Y

Places like that don't have to wait for bitcoin emission halving for price appreciation, they have that on their own schedule...

[cypherdoc]

this is good.  Sergio Lerner:

http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-foundation-sergio-lerner-security-role/

[cypherdoc]

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/541021169198305281