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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1806600 times)
iCEBREAKER
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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


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July 18, 2015, 11:31:00 PM
 #29021


Birds of a free shit army feather flock together.

I am not shocked to find Generalissimo Frap.doc of the FSA pushing the anti-gold Keynesian 'barbarous relic'/Bernankian 'not real money' party line.

He just wants to add our gold to his stash, on the cheap.



6,000 years of civilization say Frap.doc is full of it (it being hubris).

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
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smooth
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July 18, 2015, 11:39:47 PM
 #29022

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.

Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2015, 11:49:50 PM
 #29023

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.



Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.


So why haven't they attacked?
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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July 18, 2015, 11:53:25 PM
 #29024

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.



Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.


So why haven't they attacked?

Because they have no incentive to? You do know that's how the game works right?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
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July 18, 2015, 11:57:14 PM
 #29025

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.



Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.


So why haven't they attacked?

Because they have no incentive to? You do know that's how the game works right?

Why don't you explain it to us?
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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July 19, 2015, 12:00:06 AM
 #29026

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.



Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.


So why haven't they attacked?

Because they have no incentive to? You do know that's how the game works right?

Why don't you explain it to us?

What is there to explain? Can you not imagine a scenario where an entity controls more than 51% of the network yet decides it is in their best interest not to attack it?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
cypherdoc
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July 19, 2015, 12:02:07 AM
 #29027

Occam's Razor applies perfectly well here to mining.



Sure it does, and the simplest explanation is simply that huge miners hide their scary network % by breaking them up. Anything else requires a convoluted and unlikely explanation to negate the natural economies of scale for industrial mining.


So why haven't they attacked?

Because they have no incentive to? You do know that's how the game works right?

Why don't you explain it to us?

What is there to explain? Can you not imagine a scenario where an entity controls more than 51% of the network yet decides it is in their best interest not to attack it?

If that's what you think you should sell your coins now.
brg444
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July 19, 2015, 12:08:44 AM
 #29028


If that's what you think you should sell your coins now.

I don't necessarily believe that is the case right now but certainly won't pretend this is not possible, see smooth's comment again for explanation.

The point is we have no way to know and it is a big enough risk that we shouldn't ignore its existence even if we are to pretend the odds for this to occur are small

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
iCEBREAKER
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July 19, 2015, 12:12:50 AM
 #29029



Wait..for...it...











Wait..for...it...











































The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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July 19, 2015, 12:14:56 AM
 #29030


If that's what you think you should sell your coins now.

I don't necessarily believe that is the case right now but certainly won't pretend this is not possible, see smooth's comment again for explanation.

The point is we have no way to know and it is a big enough risk that we shouldn't ignore its existence even if we are to pretend the odds for this to occur are small

No one ever said ignore the possibility. But since you are so adamant about the need to worry about it, what do you propose we do?
brg444
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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks


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July 19, 2015, 12:17:33 AM
 #29031



Wait..for...it...


Later that day....



 Cheesy

man is desperate

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
brg444
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July 19, 2015, 12:20:34 AM
 #29032


If that's what you think you should sell your coins now.

I don't necessarily believe that is the case right now but certainly won't pretend this is not possible, see smooth's comment again for explanation.

The point is we have no way to know and it is a big enough risk that we shouldn't ignore its existence even if we are to pretend the odds for this to occur are small

No one ever said ignore the possibility. But since you are so adamant about the need to worry about it, what do you propose we do?

 Huh

I thought I told you already not to twist my or anyone's words

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
kazuki49
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July 19, 2015, 12:49:10 AM
 #29033

Interesting post by smooth on another thread, thanks to the last optimizations Monero can actually get near VISA-levels of TPS:

Speaking of block size...what's Monero's capacity in terms of txs per second?

Monero has a very scalable block size solution. It is "adaptive" as it changes with the amount of information going through the Monero network.

Okay, thanks. I'd prefer a number, but what you wrote will do. Smiley

What he said was right. There is no hard limit in the protocol. Noodle Doodle's recent benchmarks on an i7-2600K show 2.5 ms average tx verification time (per core) so that would max out at 1600 tx/second.

Usage at that level would require a lot of bandwidth and CPUs slower than a 2011 quad core desktop would not be able to keep up and would need to drop off.

tvbcof
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July 19, 2015, 03:17:36 AM
 #29034



Wait..for...it...


Later that day....



 Cheesy

man is desperate

On the contrary, that is about the only thing I can think of where I agree with Hearn nearly 100%.

That said, it does seem to me that in terms of overall design (which is all I am even vaguely informed enough to critique) 'old school' in the way Hearn seems to have meant it and to me that is a very good thing.  Back in the day, resources of many types were scarce and people had to, by necessity, expend a lot of energy thinking about how to make things efficient.  From what I can tell Satoshi thought a fair bit about some of these things.  In some cases it seems like he had some ideas which were abandoned half way through though.  For instance, the idea of spending all your money and having change returned opens the door for some significant preening but the actually leveraging it to it's potential was something which really never happened.

It is worth note that when the dimension of time is introduced, modern resource availability is not nearly as much of a panacea as it is for someone just trying to get the next release out to a customer or deployment.  Tight and well considered 'old school' designs have a place even in the 'modern' world in some corner-case efforts.  Bitcoin is a classic example of one of these.

s/blast from the past/old school/g

MarketNeutral
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July 19, 2015, 03:22:33 AM
 #29035

Once again, Nick Szabo is spot on correct. Kudos!
ABISprotocol
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ABISprotocol on Gist


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July 19, 2015, 05:14:38 AM
 #29036

What is this thread, "gold collapsing, bitcoin up?"  Yeah, that.  Without commenting on stuff like vaultoro.com partnering with shapeshift.io (kind of interesting hybrid development), I'll just throw this out there and let you chew on it:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn3lqs

ABISprotocol (Github/Gist)
http://abis.io
Cconvert2G36
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July 19, 2015, 06:09:27 AM
 #29037

Interesting post by smooth on another thread, thanks to the last optimizations Monero can actually get near VISA-levels of TPS:

Speaking of block size...what's Monero's capacity in terms of txs per second?

Monero has a very scalable block size solution. It is "adaptive" as it changes with the amount of information going through the Monero network.

Okay, thanks. I'd prefer a number, but what you wrote will do. Smiley

What he said was right. There is no hard limit in the protocol. Noodle Doodle's recent benchmarks on an i7-2600K show 2.5 ms average tx verification time (per core) so that would max out at 1600 tx/second.

Usage at that level would require a lot of bandwidth and CPUs slower than a 2011 quad core desktop would not be able to keep up and would need to drop off.




The good news, re:groundbreaking study detailing scaling capability in the face of exploding demand, has yet to permeate down to the traders. Early bird gets the worm.

smooth
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July 19, 2015, 06:22:20 AM
 #29038



The good news, re:groundbreaking study detailing scaling capability in the face of exploding demand, has yet to permeate down to the traders. Early bird gets the worm.

Looks a lot like



I'm not sure what to make of either graph, other than to say that speculative interest in cryptocurrencies has waned quite a bit over the past 12-18 months.
sidhujag
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July 19, 2015, 09:02:48 AM
 #29039

To me spec interest in crypto is at all time high. we just dont see result as of yet. Devs and whales dumping i think depressed prices but not interest
solex
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100 satoshis -> ISO code


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July 19, 2015, 10:11:18 AM
 #29040



What goes up must come down?
or Damned lies and statistics? (squish the x-axis and truncate the y for dramatic effect)

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