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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1807508 times)
cypherdoc
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July 19, 2015, 04:44:01 PM
 #29041

hey iCEBlow,

was it you accusing me a few weeks ago about using sockpuppets on Reddit?  sorry i didn't make the list.  but a couple of your BS core devs did.  Grin:

https://github.com/aehaynes/reddit_authorship/blob/master/sock_rankings.txt
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cypherdoc
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July 19, 2015, 05:11:22 PM
 #29042

while certainly the Bitcoin network can "handle" the spam tx load and has the capacity for much bigger blocks, that doesn't mean it can't be "congested" for relatively little money esp when the goal is to disrupt new user growth:

BitcoinAddress 3 points an hour ago

A rough guess would be:

Assume:

    6 months = 365/2 * 24*6 = 26,280 blocks
    50,000 txn backlog desired
    500 spam txn's needed to maintain backlog per block confirmed

50,000 txns + (500 txn/block * 26,280 blocks) = 13,190,000 txns

@ network fee cost of 0.0001 BTC = 1,319 BTC

@ $250/BTC market price = $330K

So somewhere between 300K and a Million is my guess. Pennies for big fish.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dty9w/looks_like_the_latest_stress_test_is_over/ct8pa67
Patel
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July 19, 2015, 06:43:22 PM
 #29043

What is this thread, "gold collapsing, bitcoin up?"  Yeah, that.  Without commenting on stuff like vaultoro.com partnering with shapeshift.io (kind of interesting hybrid development), I'll just throw this out there and let you chew on it:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sn3lqs

nice
LucyLovesCrypto
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July 20, 2015, 01:29:27 AM
 #29044

a store-of-value that can't offer anything for the micropayments of the fledgling Knowledge Age, is going no where in terms of network effects.

Bitcoin is going to monopolize network effects in the NWO paradigm that most of the masses will fall into. If you are going to create an alternative, then you must identify the unique network effects of the alternative market.

Micropayments are only feasible given a prunable mini-blockchain like XCN's, or perhaps vaporware such as the Lightening Network.

Bitcoin is not here to create monopolies, it is here to destroy them.  And it brought a friend...

Bitcoin is the good cop; Monero is the bad one.  One hand washes the other, like salt and pepper:

Quote
Monero’s Allure

Furthermore, potential attackers are at a disadvantage for another reason. Monero tends to oppose organizations rather than people. Even someone who stands to lose from Monero by not reacting to it, such as a banker or government agent, stands to gain a great deal by buying now. Only the very wealthiest people might reasonably expect to be worse off attempting to buy up as much as possible now than if it were gone. (This could happen if their attempt to buy caused the price to rise too fast relative to their ability to acquire additional Moneros, to the point that they ultimately had less influence over the future Monero economy than they have over the economy of today.) Thus, the agency problem with Monero affects Monero competitors as well as Monero holders.

Nearly any government agent who begins to see Monero as a potential threat must also simultaneously see it as an opportunity. He, too, can invest in Monero. And why shouldn’t he? Monero may be a threat to his livelihood, but it may well be making him an offer he can’t refuse. How can an organization that stands to lose by the adoption of Monero provide its members with a better opportunity for staying loyal than Monero provides for defection?

Even those who might resist the temptation to defect would have to think about the defection of his fellows. How quickly is adoption happening? Is there time to mount an attack before Monero becomes too powerful? How easily could the resources for such an attack be amassed, given both the ignorance and treachery of the other agents. If such an attack would be unlikely to succeed, then buying now would be the only intelligent action. Regardless of whether he liked Monero, it would be futile to continue pursuing a doomed cause.

Potential Monero attackers are in a Prisoner’s Dilemma. In the same way that the people cannot easily rebel against the king owing to a lack of coordination on their part, governments cannot rebel against Monero for the same reason. The government puts the people in a Prisoner’s Dilemma against one another, and Monero does the same to government agents.

Monero is like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Monero attracts inside men to act as covert saboteurs. There have long been predictions from both Moneroers and naysayers of impending government attacks, but I think there is a possibility that Monero could win without suffering much resistance. Moreover, although I said above only that any legal Monero attack could be perverted, the considerations discussed in this section tend to make such diffusion very likely.

Monero defends itself by being obscure, but once it has attracted someone’s attention, its best interest is for that person to understand the logic presented here. For then he will also understand that his best course is to deny Monero’s threat to his superiors and quietly to become its willing slave.

Because of the automatic availability of privacy with the opt-in alternative of transparency, everything true about BTC is twice as true for XMR.

IE, defection previously impossible or too risky using BTC is now enabled via XMR's radical opacity.   Cool

Very interesting analysis.  I don't necessarily think the events above will happen soon, but when they do they could happen quickly. I see many hero members make positive and negative comments about Monero. Are they any bitcoin core developers that have a public position on its cryptography one way or the other?

Compared to the biased XMR and DASH threads this seemed like a good place to come for an unbiased opinion.

I am not a cryptographer so seek opinions from those better informed than myself
iCEBREAKER
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July 20, 2015, 01:46:08 AM
 #29045

hey iCEBlow,

was it you accusing me a few weeks ago about using sockpuppets on Reddit?  sorry i didn't make the list.  but a couple of your BS core devs did.  Grin:

https://github.com/aehaynes/reddit_authorship/blob/master/sock_rankings.txt

Nope, not me.  I've on several occasions told you I don't post at Reddit and despise the venue.

If you think the core devs are BS, I suggest you stop running their code.

Biting the hands which feed you is considered impolite, and performative contradictions destroy credibility.

Not that you have much left after the failed 20MB jihad, failed XT putsch, failed anti-sidechain/lightning FUD, gmax administered spankings, embarrassing Chicken Little falling sky routine, and logical contortions in the Gavin "financial crisis is over" kerfuffle.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
iCEBREAKER
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July 20, 2015, 01:59:01 AM
 #29046

Bitcoin is not here to create monopolies, it is here to destroy them.  And it brought a friend...

Because of the automatic availability of privacy with the opt-in alternative of transparency, everything true about BTC is twice as true for XMR.

IE, defection previously impossible or too risky using BTC is now enabled via XMR's radical opacity.   Cool

Very interesting analysis.  I don't necessarily think the events above will happen soon, but when they do they could happen quickly. I see many hero members make positive and negative comments about Monero. Are they any bitcoin core developers that have a public position on its cryptography one way or the other?

Yes, Monero is considered by many legendary/hero members to be the next step in crypto.  No other coin even comes close.

Peter Todd says XMR's crypto is legitimate: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368

gmax has an XMR address on his profile (which can expect a nice Halving Day present from me).

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
LucyLovesCrypto
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July 20, 2015, 02:03:00 AM
 #29047

Bitcoin is not here to create monopolies, it is here to destroy them.  And it brought a friend...

Because of the automatic availability of privacy with the opt-in alternative of transparency, everything true about BTC is twice as true for XMR.

IE, defection previously impossible or too risky using BTC is now enabled via XMR's radical opacity.   Cool

Very interesting analysis.  I don't necessarily think the events above will happen soon, but when they do they could happen quickly. I see many hero members make positive and negative comments about Monero. Are they any bitcoin core developers that have a public position on its cryptography one way or the other?

Yes, Monero is considered by many legendary/hero members to be the next step in crypto.  No other coin even comes close.

Peter Todd says XMR's crypto is legitimate: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368

gmax has an XMR address on his profile (which can expect a nice Halving Day present from me).

Thank you for the Peter Todd and Greg Maxwell citations!

Are there any more core developers with a position either positive or negative on Monero?

tvbcof
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July 20, 2015, 02:18:16 AM
 #29048


Checkpoint.  People are waking up and we crossed the 30/70 threshold...even here on on the defective wording of cypherdoc (Generalissimo, Free Shit Army.)

Quote
Question:    Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes    200 (69.9%)
2.  no    86 (30.1%)
Total Voters: 286


iCEBREAKER
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July 20, 2015, 02:19:25 AM
 #29049

Peter Todd says XMR's crypto is legitimate: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368

gmax has an XMR address on his profile (which can expect a nice Halving Day present from me).

Thank you for the Peter Todd and Greg Maxwell citations!

Are there any more core developers with a position either positive or negative on Monero?

Adam Back worked on ring signatures, but IDK his position on Monero.  He was considering a more efficient (less blockchain bloating) version of them, a task recently completed by gmax.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2015, 02:20:58 AM
 #29050

hey iCEBlow,

was it you accusing me a few weeks ago about using sockpuppets on Reddit?  sorry i didn't make the list.  but a couple of your BS core devs did.  Grin:

https://github.com/aehaynes/reddit_authorship/blob/master/sock_rankings.txt

Nope, not me.  I've on several occasions told you I don't post at Reddit and despise the venue.

If you think the core devs are BS, I suggest you stop running their code.

Biting the hands which feed you is considered impolite, and performative contradictions destroy credibility.

Not that you have much left after the failed 20MB jihad, failed XT putsch, failed anti-sidechain/lightning FUD, gmax administered spankings, embarrassing Chicken Little falling sky routine, and logical contortions in the Gavin "financial crisis is over" kerfuffle.

haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:

majamalu
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July 20, 2015, 02:21:53 AM
 #29051

Gold collapsing.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
ssmc2
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July 20, 2015, 02:28:18 AM
 #29052

Gold collapsing.

Bitcoin.....  Wink
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2015, 02:31:01 AM
 #29053

Gold collapsing.

haha.  this is SO beautiful, eh iCEBlow?  for all your blow and bluster, i can't wait to see your face tomorrow when i put up the chart of my DZZ:  DOUBLE SHORT!

iCEBREAKER
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July 20, 2015, 02:45:35 AM
 #29054

haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:

Gold collapsing.png

That's right, pretend you didn't just falsely accuse me of saying you used sock puppets at Reddit.  No need to apologize for being wrong...

You used to like it when I bumped your thread.  Are you waffling over that too?

I didn't make out like a bandit from the HF venture, but at least I don't have hungry pitbulls from Katten chomping on my leg, desperate for blood.   Cheesy

Failure in XMR?  Bro, I'm up ~100% in XMR, whose crowdfunded development and whale onboarding balls are just starting to accrete snow.   Wink

Remember when we told you 25 cent XMR was a steal, but you were too fucking stubborn to listen?  Yeah, good times.

As for gold and silver collapsing, I am buying, not selling, at these prices and welcome the opportunity to stack Eagles and Maples for ~$20 each!

My Hecla stock isn't going to zero, and they are benefiting from dirt cheap fire sale acquisitionsDitto for New Gold, my other favorite miner.   Cool

I've already learned all you have to teach me ("HOLD!").  I appreciate that, and am trying to return the favor.

The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy.  David Chaum 1996
Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect.  Adam Back 2014
"Monero" : { Private - Auditable - 100% Fungible - Flexible Blocksize - Wild & Free® - Intro - Wallets - Podcats - Roadmap - Dice - Blackjack - Github - Android }


Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016
Blocks must necessarily be full for the Bitcoin network to be able to pay for its own security.  davout 2015
Blocksize is an intentionally limited resource, like the 21e6 BTC limit.  Changing it degrades the surrounding economics, creating negative incentives.  Jeff Garzik 2013


"I believed @Dashpay instamine was a bug & not a feature but then read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg13017231#msg13017231
I'm not against people making money, but can't support questionable origins."
https://twitter.com/Tone_LLT/status/717822927908024320


The raison d'être of bitcoin is trustlessness. - Eric Lombrozo 2015
It is an Engineering Requirement that Bitcoin be “Above the Law”  Paul Sztorc 2015
Resiliency, not efficiency, is the paramount goal of decentralized, non-state sanctioned currency -Jon Matonis 2015

Bitcoin is intentionally designed to be ungovernable and governance-free.  luke-jr 2016

Technology tends to move in the direction of making surveillance easier, and the ability of computers to track us doubles every eighteen months. - Phil Zimmerman 2013

The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

"Hard forks cannot be co
Cconvert2G36
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July 20, 2015, 02:46:03 AM
 #29055


haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:


Does this mean what I think it does? If so, put down the rock doc, it's such a nice glass house.
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2015, 02:56:32 AM
 #29056


haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:


Does this mean what I think it does? If so, put down the rock doc, it's such a nice glass house.

At least one of them made out like a bandit tho...

assuming one of them actually did something wrong tho...
BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 20, 2015, 03:05:00 AM
 #29057


haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:


Does this mean what I think it does? If so, put down the rock doc, it's such a nice glass house.

At least one of them made out like a bandit tho...

assuming one of them actually did something wrong tho...

Well, the jury is still out on that imho. It seems calling 'shill' in this place is like yelling 'fire' at an apathy convention.  Undecided

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
majamalu
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July 20, 2015, 03:06:28 AM
 #29058


Everything is collapsing or about to collapse, except Bitcoin. Deal with it.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
cypherdoc
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July 20, 2015, 03:08:23 AM
 #29059


haha.  poor little iCEBlow.  such a failure in all his investments.  a failure in HF, a failure in XMR, and a failure in gold.  no wonder you have to spend all your time following me around hoping i rub off on you:


Does this mean what I think it does? If so, put down the rock doc, it's such a nice glass house.

At least one of them made out like a bandit tho...

assuming one of them actually did something wrong tho...

Well, the jury is still out on that imho. It seems calling 'shill' in this place is like yelling 'fire' at an apathy convention.  Undecided

Shill

A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.
Who are you shilling for?

Ignore the n00b, he's just here to shill.
BlindMayorBitcorn
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July 20, 2015, 03:12:07 AM
 #29060


Everything is collapsing or about to collapse, except Bitcoin. Deal with it.

Look up and imagine what this would do to the PLT market!

‘Platinum’ asteroid potentially worth $5.4 trillion to pass Earth on Sunday

Forgive my petulance and oft-times, I fear, ill-founded criticisms, and forgive me that I have, by this time, made your eyes and head ache with my long letter. But I cannot forgo hastily the pleasure and pride of thus conversing with you.
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