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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010858 times)
sickpig
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July 25, 2015, 06:03:10 PM
 #29281

Garzik Predicts ‘Chaos’ If Changes Made to Both Fee Structure and Block Size

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114966/garzik-predicts-chaos-if-changes-made-to-both-fee-structure-and-block-size

Quote from: Jeff Garzik
“First, users & market are forced through this period of chaos by ‘let a fee market develop’ as the whole market changes to a radically different economic policy, [one] the network has never seen before. Next, when blocks are consistently full, the past consensus was that block size limit will be increased eventually. What happens at that point? Answer — Users & market are forced through a second period of chaos and disruption as the fee market is rebooted again by changing the block size limit.”

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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July 25, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
 #29282

Garzik Predicts ‘Chaos’ If Changes Made to Both Fee Structure and Block Size

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114966/garzik-predicts-chaos-if-changes-made-to-both-fee-structure-and-block-size

Quote from: Jeff Garzik
“First, users & market are forced through this period of chaos by ‘let a fee market develop’ as the whole market changes to a radically different economic policy, [one] the network has never seen before. Next, when blocks are consistently full, the past consensus was that block size limit will be increased eventually. What happens at that point? Answer — Users & market are forced through a second period of chaos and disruption as the fee market is rebooted again by changing the block size limit.”

I've you conceptualize that core  dev determination of block size is central planning, then  it becomes clear why it doesn't  work.
Erdogan
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July 25, 2015, 06:37:31 PM
 #29283

Converted to 0.10.2 XT. Eagerly awaiting the largeblocks version.

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July 25, 2015, 07:00:19 PM
 #29284

Converted to 0.10.2 XT. Eagerly awaiting the largeblocks version.


I have 6 nodes ready and waiting.
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July 25, 2015, 07:01:52 PM
 #29285

Small blocks equal small minds.
bucktotal
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July 25, 2015, 07:06:47 PM
 #29286

Converted to 0.10.2 XT. Eagerly awaiting the largeblocks version.


I have 6 nodes ready and waiting.

how much does it cost you per node per month?

also, i asked before but you missed it... where are you getting those hash rate distribution graphs from? they dont match up with blockchain.info and others.

tvbcof
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July 25, 2015, 07:11:29 PM
 #29287


Small blocks equal small minds.

Go to your XT fork and get it over with already.  Please! This will be the best thing which ever happened for Bitcoin and more importantly, for distributed crypto-currencies in a general sense.  I do wish you would get with it, but I predict that if it gets enough traction to happen at all it will coincide with an event which would make people otherwise look to Bitcoin as a wealth preservation tool.


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July 25, 2015, 08:17:38 PM
 #29288

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)
inca
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July 25, 2015, 08:51:24 PM
 #29289

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

PLease explain how bitcoin will proceed over the next few years with the blocksize fixed at 1mb and continue to be successful Odalv.
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July 25, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
 #29290

Quote
Multiple Choice Question:
Do you see bitcoin in the future as:
A) a scaling peer to peer network with ultra cheap transactions, for anyone globally to use, with bitcoin functioning as internet cash, avoiding financial intermediaries or banks.
B) a settlement layer for banks, fin tech companies and early adopters, with a low volume expensive to transact upon blockchain

C) all of the above, and more

It's a trick question (false dilemma fallacy), because of the duality of big-B Bitcoin (the first successful e-cash implementation) and small-b bitcoin (blockchain technology).

Small-b bitcoin has already forked, in the form of alts, so as to ensure ultra cheap p2p global tx for all mankind.

Big-B Bitcoin, still in its early life cycle, is in the phase where it distinguishs itself and diverges  from Bitcoin-like blockchains, on the way to becoming the (ultra-secure, expensive, low volume) Mother of All settlement layers and global reserve e-cash.

The commonplace category error plaguing us at the moment results from failing to recognize this bifurcation (and reading Satoshi's Whitepaper in that context), or refusing to countenance the existence of alts (IE small-b bitcoin) because of some nutty Maximalist Monopolist Fundamentalist Supremacist ideological stance.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
iCEBREAKER
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July 25, 2015, 09:09:21 PM
 #29291

PLease explain how bitcoin will proceed over the next few years with the blocksize fixed at 1mb and continue to be successful Odalv.

Already been explained.  It's called "scaling."

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114945/lightning-network-could-strike-sooner-than-expected

So we'll soon have additional tps capacity in the forms of:

-Sidechains on Mainchain

-Sidechains on Altchains

-Lightning on Mainchain

-Lightning on Altchains

-Lightning on Sidechains(Mainchain)

-Lightning on Sidechains(Altchains)

So much for the 'capacity crunch.'   Smiley

Pro tip: bloating is not scaling, bloating is just more of the same (only with negative marginal return).


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
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inca
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July 25, 2015, 09:12:36 PM
 #29292

Quote
Multiple Choice Question:
Do you see bitcoin in the future as:
A) a scaling peer to peer network with ultra cheap transactions, for anyone globally to use, with bitcoin functioning as internet cash, avoiding financial intermediaries or banks.
B) a settlement layer for banks, fin tech companies and early adopters, with a low volume expensive to transact upon blockchain

C) all of the above, and more

It's a trick question (false dilemma fallacy), because of the duality of big-B Bitcoin (the first successful e-cash implementation) and small-b bitcoin (blockchain technology).

Small-b bitcoin has already forked, in the form of alts, so as to ensure ultra cheap p2p global tx for all mankind.

Big-B Bitcoin, still in its early life cycle, is in the phase where it distinguishs itself and diverges  from Bitcoin-like blockchains, on the way to becoming the (ultra-secure, expensive, low volume) Mother of All settlement layers and global reserve e-cash.

The commonplace category error plaguing us at the moment results from failing to recognize this bifurcation (and reading Satoshi's Whitepaper in that context), or refusing to countenance the existence of alts (IE small-b bitcoin) because of some nutty Maximalist Monopolist Fundamentalist Supremacist ideological stance.

Unless you expect bitcoin to have hundreds of sidechains (not altcoins) performing 'ultra cheap p2p global tx for all mankind' then your argument is flawed.

The bitcoin chain only has value because it is first and because people expect it to retain (or increase) it's value in the future through increased (or continuing) adoption. Early adopters might not see that this is a problem if bitcoin remains limited or crippled by a small blocksize but to those of us who just missed that early boat and joined the party in 2013 or later it is an issue. The reason being that to all non-early adopters the speculative value of bitcoin over alternate blockchains is based in part upon the expectation of a significantly growing userbase and ultimately exchange price of each bitcoin. If it becomes clear that bitcoin is not going to scale or remain the cheapest blockchain out there for new users then it won't just be new users who migrate to alternate chains, it will be the value that early adopters enjoy currently, too.

Edit: Pro-tip: lightning is vapour currently so wind your neck in..
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July 25, 2015, 09:26:56 PM
 #29293

Small blocks equal small minds.

Small is beautiful.  Small is defensible.

Quote
The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

We will not allow Bitcoin to succumb to cheap bloating attacks and lazy slouching towards the negative marginal returns, and inevitable extinction, of gigantism.

A comet will eventually hit Planet Bitcoin.  When that happens it needs to still be a nimble mammal, not a bloated dinosaur.

LOL, your 6 SX nodes are 6% of their total and a mighty 1.55% of the network!

Fear the wrath of the Gavinistas!   Cheesy


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Erdogan
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July 25, 2015, 09:33:46 PM
 #29294

Converted to 0.10.2 XT. Eagerly awaiting the largeblocks version.


I have 6 nodes ready and waiting.

how much does it cost you per node per month?

also, i asked before but you missed it... where are you getting those hash rate distribution graphs from? they dont match up with blockchain.info and others.


No idea, not much. I have an i7, 12GB machine bought a few years ago, and a 25/25 Mb/s fiber to the home. The node runs in the background, I hardly notice it.

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July 25, 2015, 09:36:59 PM
 #29295

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

Small blocks, small dicks.

iCEBREAKER
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July 25, 2015, 09:41:55 PM
 #29296

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

Small blocks, small dicks.


Does your mom know you're staying up late and sneaking on to her laptop just to act like a jackass?

Here son, have a clue:

Quote
The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004


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██████████████████████
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██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Erdogan
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July 25, 2015, 09:45:14 PM
 #29297

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

Small blocks, small dicks.


Does your mom know you're staying up late and sneaking on to her laptop just to act like a jackass?

Here son, have a clue:

Quote
The only way to make software secure, reliable, and fast is to make it small. Fight Features. - Andy Tanenbaum 2004

My mother died at the age of ninety a few years ago. Changing the blocksize do not add to the size of the bitcoin node.

Odalv
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July 25, 2015, 09:51:07 PM
 #29298

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

Small blocks, small dicks.


I want to say "the only dick here is you" but it is not true. cypherdoc is here too :-)
Erdogan
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July 25, 2015, 09:58:35 PM
 #29299

So we have the asics. After a few rounds of minimalization, we will be at the smallest size asics that can be made.

Next step is a special processor for lookup in the blockchain database. Maybe a special cache that can hold the transaction indexes, maybe some prediction built in so the whole chain from the coinbase can be loaded into the cache in paralell. And a special cache for holding whole transactions, or at least an output address and the number of satoshis in each cache line. One machine cycle to verify each output, at 8 GHz. That would be something. Well, ideas are cheap.

Erdogan
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July 25, 2015, 10:00:00 PM
 #29300

Small blocks equal small minds.

lol, small blocks equal smart minds.   (contrary big and stupid)

Small blocks, small dicks.


I want to say "the only dick here is you" but it is not true. cypherdoc is here too :-)

But there is no poetry in that.

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