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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010315 times)
iCEBREAKER
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July 16, 2015, 01:45:12 AM
 #28861

hmmm, where did we hear this one before?:

How about this one:

Current situation where blocks are getting full from artificial 1MB cap:
Attacker: large miners like f2pool
Attack: spam network from one of its wallets to another. Drive up overall fees of regular users.
Success: 100%

Wow, you totally anticipated Cryddit's Golden Ratio Attack.  Amazing.

And that why you are indisputably the LebRon Jones of Bitcoin!

/ Roll Eyes


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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July 16, 2015, 01:48:19 AM
 #28862

hmmm, where did we hear this one before?:

How about this one:

Current situation where blocks are getting full from artificial 1MB cap:
Attacker: large miners like f2pool
Attack: spam network from one of its wallets to another. Drive up overall fees of regular users.
Success: 100%

Wow, you totally anticipated Cryddit's Golden Ratio Attack.  Amazing.

And that why you are indisputably the LebRon Jones of Bitcoin!

/ Roll Eyes

why thank you iCEBlow!  i'm glad you recognize brilliance when you see it.  you may kiss my ass now.
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July 16, 2015, 02:31:39 AM
 #28863

The block size limit is not a problem.



Kim Jong-iCE will know exactly when we need more space.

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
iCEBREAKER
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July 16, 2015, 02:56:07 AM
 #28864


I suspect we agree that should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern (EG, if we see actual congestion resulting in appropriate fees no longer prioritizing their tx) the controversy will rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus.

Kim Jong-iCE will know exactly when we need more space.

The Democratic People’s Republic of Corea thanks you for recognizing my prescience and leadership in addressing this important matter.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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cypherdoc
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July 16, 2015, 02:59:12 AM
 #28865

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.
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July 16, 2015, 03:00:47 AM
 #28866


I suspect we agree that should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern (EG, if we see actual congestion resulting in appropriate fees no longer prioritizing their tx) the controversy will rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus.

no, the eye doctor says you're a blind fool.
iCEBREAKER
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July 16, 2015, 03:11:48 AM
 #28867


I suspect we agree that should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern (EG, if we see actual congestion resulting in appropriate fees no longer prioritizing their tx) the controversy will rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus.

no, the eye doctor says you're a blind fool.

Why do you say that?

Do you believe the controversy will *not* rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus, should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern?


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██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
cypherdoc
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July 16, 2015, 03:26:21 AM
 #28868


I suspect we agree that should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern (EG, if we see actual congestion resulting in appropriate fees no longer prioritizing their tx) the controversy will rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus.

no, the eye doctor says you're a blind fool.

Why do you say that?

Do you believe the controversy will *not* rapidly dissipate and be replaced by emergent rough consensus, should 1MB blocks become an undeniably urgent concern?

you and the other Cripplecoiner's are blind fools to what is happening right now as a result of the 1MB choke you are inflicting on Bitcoin.  you don't have the vision to determine when there is urgency.
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July 16, 2015, 03:29:42 AM
 #28869

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.

well someone was kind enough to spare us the effort to "rekt" your hypocritical "concern" on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct4yc63

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 16, 2015, 03:33:32 AM
 #28870

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.

well someone was kind enough to spare us the effort to "rekt" your hypocritical "concern" on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct4yc63

brg444 jumping to rektless conclusions again.  i actually have a response i have yet to use to eragmus. 
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July 16, 2015, 04:01:44 AM
 #28871

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.

well someone was kind enough to spare us the effort to "rekt" your hypocritical "concern" on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct4yc63

brg444 jumping to rektless conclusions again.  i actually have a response i have yet to use to eragmus. 

And as expected, a wholly unoriginal reply rehashing tired and disingenuous arguments. See my reply  Wink

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 16, 2015, 04:05:03 AM
 #28872

On the topic of "what is a conflict of interest," I think this explanation (from a high impact factor academic journal) is good:

Quote from: EMBO Journal Author Guidelines
Conflicts of interest

In the interests of transparency and to help editors and reviewers assess any potential bias, the journal requires authors of original research papers to declare any competing commercial interests in relation to the submitted work. It is difficult to specify a threshold at which a financial interest becomes significant, but as a practical guideline, we would suggest this to be any undeclared interest that could embarrass you were it to become publicly known. Referees and editors are also subject to Conflict of Interest regulations.

As an example, let's say I had a company (perhaps that was still in stealth mode) that performed the service, similar to what BlockCypher does, of calculating "confidence factors" for 0-confirm transactions.  

Now let's imagine I write an academic paper that presents data on double-spend statistics and shows how one can use network heuristics to reliably accept 0-confirm transactions for certain business models.  

What I present in the paper may be entirely factual and unbiased, but I still have a conflict of interest and I should declare that fact to the public.  A conflict of interest is not, in and of itself, a bad thing.  In fact, since we're imagining I'm in the business, I'm probably pretty knowledgeable on the topic!  Nonetheless, I should still be transparent and allow others to assess the results and any biases I may have for themselves.  

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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July 16, 2015, 04:09:55 AM
 #28873

On the topic of "what is a conflict of interest," I think this explanation (from a high impact factor academic journal) is good:

Quote from: EMBO Journal Author Guidelines
Conflicts of interest

In the interests of transparency and to help editors and reviewers assess any potential bias, the journal requires authors of original research papers to declare any competing commercial interests in relation to the submitted work. It is difficult to specify a threshold at which a financial interest becomes significant, but as a practical guideline, we would suggest this to be any undeclared interest that could embarrass you were it to become publicly known. Referees and editors are also subject to Conflict of Interest regulations.

As an example, let's say I had a company (perhaps that was still in stealth mode) that performed the service, similar to what BlockCypher does, of calculating "confidence factors" for 0-confirm transactions.  

Now let's imagine I write an academic paper that presents data on double-spend statistics and shows how one can use network heuristics to reliably accept 0-confirm transactions for certain business models.  

What I present in the paper may be entirely factual and unbiased, but I still have a conflict of interest and I should declare that fact to the public.  A conflict of interest is not, in and of itself, a bad thing.  In fact, since we're imagining I'm in the business, I'm probably pretty knowledgeable on the topic!  Nonetheless, I should still be transparent and allow others to assess the results and any biases I may have for themselves.  

Granted.

A bad thing is when people like cypherdoc derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 16, 2015, 04:11:35 AM
 #28874

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.

well someone was kind enough to spare us the effort to "rekt" your hypocritical "concern" on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct4yc63

brg444 jumping to rektless conclusions again.  i actually have a response i have yet to use to eragmus. 

And as expected, a wholly unoriginal reply rehashing tired and disingenuous arguments. See my reply  Wink

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct505jf
Peter R
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July 16, 2015, 04:15:06 AM
 #28875

Granted.

A bad thing is when people ... derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"

Right.  There's two things to consider:

(1) Does someone have a conflict of interest?

(2) Is that person acting upon his conflict of interest or is his opinion biased by his conflict of interest?

Granted, we don't know to what extent (2) holds for anyone at Blockstream.  But the answer to (1) is clearly "yes."  Would you agree?

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
cypherdoc
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July 16, 2015, 04:15:47 AM
 #28876

On the topic of "what is a conflict of interest," I think this explanation (from a high impact factor academic journal) is good:

Quote from: EMBO Journal Author Guidelines
Conflicts of interest

In the interests of transparency and to help editors and reviewers assess any potential bias, the journal requires authors of original research papers to declare any competing commercial interests in relation to the submitted work. It is difficult to specify a threshold at which a financial interest becomes significant, but as a practical guideline, we would suggest this to be any undeclared interest that could embarrass you were it to become publicly known. Referees and editors are also subject to Conflict of Interest regulations.

As an example, let's say I had a company (perhaps that was still in stealth mode) that performed the service, similar to what BlockCypher does, of calculating "confidence factors" for 0-confirm transactions.  

Now let's imagine I write an academic paper that presents data on double-spend statistics and shows how one can use network heuristics to reliably accept 0-confirm transactions for certain business models.  

What I present in the paper may be entirely factual and unbiased, but I still have a conflict of interest and I should declare that fact to the public.  A conflict of interest is not, in and of itself, a bad thing.  In fact, since we're imagining I'm in the business, I'm probably pretty knowledgeable on the topic!  Nonetheless, I should still be transparent and allow others to assess the results and any biases I may have for themselves.  

Granted.

A bad thing is when people like cypherdoc derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"

except that:

1.  i predicted something like this block size conflict would come up as a general concept; them preventing upgrades that would help Bitcoin.  and...

2.  they won't even acknowledge there's a conflict of interest.  in fact, they spend all their time around here denying it.
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July 16, 2015, 04:15:54 AM
 #28877

conflict of interest

n. a situation in which a person has a duty to more than one person or organization, but cannot do justice to the actual or potentially adverse interests of both parties. This includes when an individual's personal interests or concerns are inconsistent with the best for a customer, or when a public official's personal interests are contrary to his/her loyalty to public business. An attorney, an accountant, a business adviser or realtor cannot represent two parties in a dispute and must avoid even the appearance of conflict. He/she may not join with a client in business without making full disclosure of his/her potential conflicts, he/she must avoid commingling funds with the client, and never, never take a position adverse to the customer.

well someone was kind enough to spare us the effort to "rekt" your hypocritical "concern" on reddit :

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct4yc63

brg444 jumping to rektless conclusions again.  i actually have a response i have yet to use to eragmus. 

And as expected, a wholly unoriginal reply rehashing tired and disingenuous arguments. See my reply  Wink

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3dg1us/the_golden_ratio_attack_blocks_more_than_half/ct505jf

So this boils down to you trusting MIT more than Silicon Valley.

If only Aaron Swartz was here to answer this one.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 16, 2015, 04:16:21 AM
 #28878

A bad thing is when people like cypherdoc derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"
What actually happened is that when Blockstream was announced multiple noted that it created the appearance of a potential conflict of interest.

Instead of acknowledging this potential (fairly standard practice in many business situations!), the Blockstream founders took the bizarre route of denying even the possibility of a conflict of interest.

That choice of actions is what lead to ongoing concern about their motives, not the founding of Blockstream itself.
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July 16, 2015, 04:19:28 AM
 #28879

Granted.

A bad thing is when people ... derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"

Right.  There's two things to consider:

(1) Does someone have a conflict of interest?

(2) Is that person acting upon his conflict of interest or is his opinion biased by his conflict of interest?

Granted, we don't know to what extent (2) holds for anyone at Blockstream.  But the answer to (1) is clearly "yes."  Would you agree?

Well do you know of any "undeclared interest" that would embarrass blockstream devs were it made public?

You picked this threshold so I'm curious what information is it you possess that would enable you to answer with a clear "yes" to question (1)?


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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July 16, 2015, 04:20:32 AM
 #28880

A bad thing is when people like cypherdoc derive from the conflict of interest malicious intents without proof other than "I don't trust them"
What actually happened is that when Blockstream was announced multiple noted that it created the appearance of a potential conflict of interest.

Instead of acknowledging this potential (fairly standard practice in many business situations!), the Blockstream founders took the bizarre route of denying even the possibility of a conflict of interest.

That choice of actions is what lead to ongoing concern about their motives, not the founding of Blockstream itself.

which as you say actually compounds the problem b/c it brings up questions of maturity and transparency.  not to mention intent.
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