Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[cypherdoc]

this kinda reminds of the proliferation of mining nodes worldwide:

Growth for Bitcoin ATMs

http://www.coindesk.com/7-charts-show-year-growth-bitcoin-atms/

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[bitrider]

At this point, most of my friends are neutral or positive about Bitcoin... EXCEPT the academic economists. I think the fact that Bitcoin was not invented within the sphere of academic economics really bothers them (not that they would ever put it that way...)

Mark Twain nailed this one: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

Hayek phrased the problem more more succinctly as "the pretense of knowledge."

It's also the same reason people often lose their car keys: they know for sure they already looked somewhere that they actually haven't yet.

Money experts will be the last to come on board, because they think they already know what money is.

+1

+2

[Pruden]

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

Well-done in my mind since it does away with 2 widespread myths:

• money emerged to replace barter transactions (wrong, it emerged to track debt)

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

[molecular]

Bitcoin and the history of money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP0jCjyrew8

Well-done in my mind since it does away with 2 widespread myths:

• money emerged to replace barter transactions (wrong, it emerged to track debt)

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

Can't point to any study, but I read it on two occasions. One was when reading the german translation of Debt: The First 5,000 Years

Graeber explains the issue quite convincingly, citing many examples (very strange ones among them). I used to believe the barter-story, but after reading (parts of, I haven't finished it) that book, I'm now convinced money really came about as a means to track debt in groups of increasing size and/or accross groups.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Almost certainly the gift economy of small familial based tribes preceded barter and still is in widespread existence today, e.g. your father gives you some tomatoes he grew himself and you want to repay that by helping him with a ride to the airport, but is that really a debt as there is no expectation of repayment? ... whether money originated as a mechanism to track "debts" is a big stretch from familial gift economy.

[justusranvier]

maybe you need to go into the consulting business.

Too much work.

I'll just wait for them to finalize their framework and then publish methods for breaking it.

[Adrian-x]

Almost certainly the gift economy of small familial based tribes preceded barter and still is in widespread existence today, e.g. your father gives you some tomatoes he grew himself and you want to repay that by helping him with a ride to the airport, but is that really a debt as there is no expectation of repayment? ... whether money originated as a mechanism to track "debts" is a big stretch from familial gift economy.

It just happens to be what the empirical evidence suggests. Barter and then money evolved where there were relationships of low trust, your community was typically a high trust relationship so no need for money or barter.

[Adrian-x]

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

[cypherdoc]

You gotta be impressed. We have eyes everywhere:

SBIRS is a network of four geosynchronous and two elliptically orbiting infrared satellites, and is run by the US Space Command at Los Angeles Air Force Base in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25923-us-satellite-may-have-located-ukraine-missile-launch.html#.U8n_Jmlycuo

[zeetubes]

You gotta be impressed. We have eyes everywhere:

SBIRS is a network of four geosynchronous and two elliptically orbiting infrared satellites, and is run by the US Space Command at Los Angeles Air Force Base in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25923-us-satellite-may-have-located-ukraine-missile-launch.html#.U8n_Jmlycuo

The US government seems a little too keen to pin the blame on the Russians, but under the circumstances I guess I can see why. What are the odds that Malaysia Airlines loses two 777s in the space of six months and both under suspicious circumstances? Probably just an unpleasant coincidence but I wonder if the Malaysian government has stepped on anyone's toes recently.

[User705]

You gotta be impressed. We have eyes everywhere:

SBIRS is a network of four geosynchronous and two elliptically orbiting infrared satellites, and is run by the US Space Command at Los Angeles Air Force Base in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25923-us-satellite-may-have-located-ukraine-missile-launch.html#.U8n_Jmlycuo

The US government seems a little too keen to pin the blame on the Russians, but under the circumstances I guess I can see why. What are the odds that Malaysia Airlines loses two 777s in the space of six months and both under suspicious circumstances? Probably just an unpleasant coincidence but I wonder if the Malaysian government has stepped on anyone's toes recently.

If you want conspiracy theories check out which airlines avoided Ukraine and which ones didn't.  I'll save you the suspense.  British Airways and Air France did.  Germanys Lufthansa didn't. 

[molecular]

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

The regression theorem is on shaky feet since bitcoin anyway.

[Erdogan]

This is the second time in a few days that I read this. Could you point to studies on the matter? I like that not even Austrians seem to be aware of this.

It's going to have to be forced down there throats, it shakes Mises's regression theorem at the core. At first I couldn't accept it but the earlier linked video sugar coats it and makes it taste nice.

This changes nothing. A person living in a non-money economy will take something of value when he goes to a merchant to have some painkillers. How do we know this? Because it is going on today. That is barter. It also happens for other reasons, like tax avoidance, and if two persons just happens to both have something of value that they don't need. No mystery.

Gift economies is live and well in stable, tight local communities. It is debt, it is based on trust that you will get something back when you give. People think this is nice; I see some problems: The community has to be exclusive to have this level of trust. There is always a black sheep that is exclueded, also newcomers, and it falls apart when there are turbulent changes in the group. Also the payments are not exact, so some individuals may sacrifice themselves too much, others can get away with very little production (if they are pretty or smiling or lying or somehow can believably hold forth that they are worthy receivers).

Historical seasonal markets based on debt has been envisioned, don't know about hard evidence but it is completely likely. In a money-scarce economy, people meet to trade, and temporarily use a ledger to enable trade, and clear out at the end of the market. Debt based markets using promissary notes is even better and can be used anywhere today, and is used where bank loans are hard to get. Privately issued "credits" are used in local markets all over the place, for example nowadays in Argentina. Denoted in the local government currency, but has normally a lower value. They are usable due to "localism" and "big corporations fucked-us-ism", and possible due to misunderstanding of what money is.

So this is nothing new, and not contrary to austrian money theory. Debt is an extension to money to some degree, the easier transferable the more money-like. The money supply that ultimately decides the prices (together with demand to hold) is the combined supply of money plus debt.

[boumalo]

You gotta be impressed. We have eyes everywhere:

SBIRS is a network of four geosynchronous and two elliptically orbiting infrared satellites, and is run by the US Space Command at Los Angeles Air Force Base in California.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25923-us-satellite-may-have-located-ukraine-missile-launch.html#.U8n_Jmlycuo

The US government seems a little too keen to pin the blame on the Russians, but under the circumstances I guess I can see why. What are the odds that Malaysia Airlines loses two 777s in the space of six months and both under suspicious circumstances? Probably just an unpleasant coincidence but I wonder if the Malaysian government has stepped on anyone's toes recently.

If you want conspiracy theories check out which airlines avoided Ukraine and which ones didn't.  I'll save you the suspense.  British Airways and Air France did.  Germanys Lufthansa didn't. 

Air France said it was because it is their usual route to avoid Ukraine

The Malaysian Airline flight used not to take this route and went further north this time; Russia closed routes that the flight was about to take before the flight entered russian airspace

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

MH17 the 07/17/2014 (2+1+4=7) cf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

[Pruden]

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

There are thousands of facts everyday. By pure chance, some will seem to align in a pattern the same way you will from time to time get the same number 5 times in a row when rolling a die.

[cypherdoc]

2 B777 of the same company destroyed for external reasons in a few months is a VERY strange coincidence

There are thousands of facts everyday. By pure chance, some will seem to align in a pattern the same way you will from time to time get the same number 5 times in a row when rolling a die.

if you believe the audio intercepts I posted above, it sounds like an accident.

[cypherdoc]

Amnesty, or at least a fair trial, would be a good thing:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/19/edward-snowden-case-amnesty?CMP=twt_gu

[cypherdoc]

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/490513180649865216

[cypherdoc]

From bad to worse

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/19/mh17-armed-rebels-chaos-corpses-ukraine

[World]

I know it's just his opinion but ...
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2b5hzy/fred_wilson_clueless_about_bitcoin_implies/