Phinnaeus Gage
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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
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July 29, 2012, 04:29:43 PM |
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I'll definitely co-operate with any police investigation by providing such information. However releasing the information in public isn't a good choice.
Even though as a community we can determine Chen Jianhai to be the hacker, he hasn't been proven guilty legally yet. That will only happen when he faces a criminal charge.
Also consider the irrationality of some community members I should refrain from posting anything that can potentially induce violence and personal attacks. It won't be good for Bitcoin's image and legal status (if you concern about it at all). I'll have to take into account my personal security as well.
I have his real information only because we were working on a legitimate business. He was introduced to me by a friend who works in a Shenzhen-based information security company (which does penetration tests for large corporations and government agencies). I have never considered Chen Jianhai as a "friend".
So who's this new friend, does he have a name and a phone number? edit: typo Sorry, Zhou, but from the looks a bit like this .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBze55fIgAwedit: I'm afraid that the ending (the end of the video) has the connotation (hidden meaning) ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) Why is that I always have to be the one to provide a better video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNAi2jB490 (BTW, yours was very good)
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dree12
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July 29, 2012, 04:30:23 PM |
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Exactly. The thief must have been someone who was not interested in Bitcoin. Zhou is likely not that person.
Fall of bitcoinica won't the fall of bitcoin. The market didn't even pay attention. If Zhou is innocent the court will clear him. You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them. This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
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vampire
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July 29, 2012, 04:33:31 PM |
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You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.
This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
Um as far I as know Zhou declared that he leaves the bitcoin world... Which makes the above statement irrelevant. Here his announcement, when he declares "I'll try to keep my gold bitcoin". You see no where he says he will keep bitcoins, more like I will only keep the gold one. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0
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Serge
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July 29, 2012, 04:33:35 PM |
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Since you've made your claim public on numerous times about owed 16000 and then 17000 BTC, would you be kind enough to provide proof that you've actually sent said amount to Bitcoinica in a form or blockchain's transaction id or a receiving bitcoin address? Then someone who is or was involved at Bitcoinca who would have had access to wallet which received these funds could confirm it. As it stands now your claim looks sketchy at best without any evidence.
1) CoinExchanger is Maria, but was already banned by the staff here once for spamming/scamming so he's just using Maria instead. 2) I've already confirmed that he holds no balance at Bitcoinica. 3) He has never provided any evidence otherwise. I hope you have -another- sockpuppet Leo, because Maria's on her way out too. Yes, many years ago, Leo and I decided to become one and he same. We complement each other in a way your small brain can not comprehend. As some of you may know, we own a private exchange that handles liberty reserve and bitcoin transactions. We also have similar platforms that run with Perfect Money and Pecunix in other languages. In the physical world, we own many different businesses that range from banana boat rentals, to restaurants, to real estate property. The reason why we are into cryptocurrencies is strictly because anonymity and the bitcoinica claims process wanted us to breach precisely that. Our deposits into bitcoinica came in many ways and forms all from our client base, so there is no way we can check the blockchain for transactions.Today, we still run and transfer thousands daily using Mt. Gox, Bitinstant, AurumXchange, CryptoXchange, and Campbx.. The lost of bitcoinica is only a thread of our financial spiderweb. Unfortunately it was one of my favorites until the events happened. There you have it guys. @Matthew I have more Skype conversations of you BEGGING for money for your BS projects. Good luck bum! Maria. If you can't support your claim with evidence of such transactions ever existed, how are you expecting Bitcoinica to honor or at the very least acknowledge what you claim is real? You claim you funded Bitcoinica from many different sources, ok, at the very least you must have had Bitcoinica's bitcoin address where funds were sent, let's see it (it's none of my business, but since you've made this whole thing loudly public with trowing threats instead of taking official Bitcoinica's path to make your claim, the public deserves to see if the claim is indeed to be somewhat valid by verifying it with blockchain and then possibly being confirmed by someone involved with Bitcoinica who have had or has access to provided bitcoin address)
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dree12
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July 29, 2012, 04:36:30 PM |
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You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.
This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
Um as far I as know Zhou declared that he leaves the bitcoin world... Which makes the above statement irrelevant. Here his announcement, when he declares "I'll try to keep my gold bitcoin". You see no where he says he will keep bitcoins, more like I will only keep the gold one. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0He has stated multiple times that he has savings in BTC. This implies he still considers them valuable. So, why would he sell them? He's not stupid enough to blow his cover that way if he was the thief.
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naima53
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July 29, 2012, 04:37:27 PM |
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Am I the only one who considers it absurd?
No. I also think that someone else was involved. It's all a big lie, (including the charges against Zhou). It is unclear what the purpose of the conspirators. Send an investigation on the wrong track? Get rid of those who may know too much? Anything else? I think they did not think that will go that far. Now decided to return back the clock? Operation "save bitkoin" succeed, but it became difficult to return the money (greed? Disagreement in the team? Betrayal member? What else?) I think, is guilty of a very respected member, and the whole team wants to hide it .. .just the assumption ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) ...
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vampire
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July 29, 2012, 04:40:04 PM |
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He has stated multiple times that he has savings in BTC. This implies he still considers them valuable. So, why would he sell them? He's not stupid enough to blow his cover that way if he was the thief.
You mean the gold coin, yea its about $1500 in gold :-) We can't really check if he sold or not the bitcoins, so somewhat a moot point. He made a lot of mistakes already, thief or not he's already implicated up to his ears in this crime.
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dree12
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July 29, 2012, 04:42:21 PM |
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Am I the only one who considers it absurd?
No. I also think that someone else was involved. It's all a big lie, (including the charges against Zhou). It is unclear what the purpose of the conspirators. Send an investigation on the wrong track? Get rid of those who may know too much? Anything else? I think they did not think that will go that far. Now decided to return back the clock? Operation "save bitkoin" succeed, but it became difficult to return the money (greed? Disagreement in the team? Betrayal member? What else?) I think, is guilty of a very respected member, and the whole team wants to hide it .. .just the assumption ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) ... Notice how aurumxchange froze the funds. Where do these funds go? If aurumxchange doesn't turn them in, who makes a profit?
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tbcoin
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July 29, 2012, 04:42:51 PM |
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You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.
This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
Um as far I as know Zhou declared that he leaves the bitcoin world... Which makes the above statement irrelevant. Here his announcement, when he declares "I'll try to keep my gold bitcoin". You see no where he says he will keep bitcoins, more like I will only keep the gold one. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0nameterrific.com accept bitcoins ...
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vampire
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July 29, 2012, 04:46:18 PM |
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nameterrific.com accept bitcoins ...
Ok, so he contradicts himself constantly... One more fact.
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bitcoinBull
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July 29, 2012, 05:01:17 PM |
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This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
When the breach of LastPass and bitcoinica's mtgox account was announced, I found it equally plausible that it was a random thief rather than an insider (ie one of Patrick/steve_bobs, zhoutong/stevejobs, etc.). It's totally possible that someone would have verified that info@bitcoinica.com is a LastPass account (this can be verified since LastPass leaks account registration status through the Forgot Password option), and then tried the MtGox API key after the source code leak. But anyone could have done that, literally anyone (seriously, I kicked myself for having not tried it myself). But the particular person who did exploit this, also happened to be one of a very few people who also knew the password to zhoutong's stevejobs807@gmail.com. Of all the numerously possible potential thiefs who had equal opportunity to log-in to LastPass, the breach was in fact highly likely, all the info was there. And of all those possibilities, what is likelihood that the one person who first took advantage also knew zhoutong's private throw-away gmail password, so that they could frame him? The probability is highly suspicious.
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College of Bucking Bulls Knowledge
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naima53
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July 29, 2012, 05:12:50 PM |
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Why use Zhou account? It's simple: ( can I place it? ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) ) just where the threshold was increased withdrawal. (verified account, by the way, why the mail "for the experiments of vulnerability" is set to account Gok, who has a great opportunity to withdraw a lot of money?)
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bitcoinBull
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July 29, 2012, 05:28:38 PM |
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Why use Zhou account? It's simple: ( can I place it? ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) ) just where the threshold was increased withdrawal. (verified account, by the way, why the mail "for the experiments of vulnerability" is set to account Gok, who has a great opportunity to withdraw a lot of money?) The stevejobs807@gmail.com mtgox account was only "verified" as in "click this link to confirm your e-mail address", not an MtGox identity-verified account. Zhou has a different mtgox account for his real identity, plus the bitcoinica mtgox account, at least. the stevejobs gmail was only used at mtgox a long time ago, this time it was used at AurumXchange. It was Chris Heaslip's mtgox account which was used to buy more bitcoin with some of the $40k USD mtgox codes, and then withdraw the bitcoin. It's not a verified account. Only the email is verified. [...]
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College of Bucking Bulls Knowledge
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John (John K.)
Global Troll-buster and
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Away on an extended break
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July 29, 2012, 05:30:22 PM |
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After reading a lot of posts, i actually suspect zhoutong is the thief who stolen money. A lot of persons & posts told him to go to a lawyer & stop posting. He never did it. Simple reason is if he goes to a lawyer, he has to tell full story & even the lawyer can threaten him in future. But their is also another important point he has to tell. The Chinese guy who is a multimillionaire, a some what don, collecting antique items & speculating with it. If he tells about the Chinese to lawyer then the Chinese must face court & criminal charges.
But anyone think that a relic collector & speculator, multimillionaire, doing underworld illegal things, will use the toughest method of money making which run by mostly computer professionals & geeks called Bitcoin, which cant be understood easily by others & cheat customers?
A true criminal will never use a way to cheat when he don't understand it. Besides a true criminal always use & cheat people when he knows a lot about the thing he use to cheat. Basically a successful criminal will never use a way he don't understand & depending on others. A successful criminal always want to be independent then only he can cheat & never have assets or money in his/her name & also in his family persons names.
This means only one thing their is a real Chinese criminal, which was/is active now & when his name comes in tv or news wont feel happy. If zhoutang goes to lawyer ,then the Chinese criminal has to face court.
Zhoutong USING the name of a well known criminal & if he tells this to his lawyer then the Chinese guy even try kill zhoutong for using his name in a crime which he never did. Zhoutong is just fooling & cheating every one by telling daily new & new stories.
Zhoutong saw & heard many Bitcoin hacks & thought he can also steal & put it on an unknown hacker, so no one will find him & he will go free. But many didn't believe his story, so he now connected a Chinese guy & building story around it. If he goes to lawyer then he has to face Chinese guy & they wont let him go. Zhoutong WILL NEVER go to lawyer & also never stop posting.
He is posting daily for only one reason. If some one not replies or post , then the victims will get angry & try to find him by using detective methods or ip address....... So, he daily replying & coming online & showing victims that he didn't vanished or absconded. He know very clearly that until he response in forum, no one will do any harsh things, like finding him, threatening him, threatening parents....etc etc etc...
Also he know clearly that its not that easy to put against him for Bitcoin fraud, coz Bitcoin can't be understood easily by normal people. So, if some one files case against him,. then the lawyer & police MUST have know what is Bitcoin & how he used it to cheat....
Also when i read all his posts, i don't think he is 17 year old person. He using English language very well & not typing as a normal 17 year old do , like using smileys, acronyms....slang language, meme.... I think he must be at least 25+ years old to type with out using any normal 17 guys use to chat. His replies shows a professionalism.
So, in total, zhoutong took money & try to cheat every one, but caught in the middle, now daily replying posts & keep on passing time. He also MAY give back all the money, coz the money never went to any Chinese guy & if it goes legal then he not only has to face law, but also has to face an angry Chinese criminal gang. He is just telling stories, so that no one will come & find his real place & real life.
I don't find anything suspicious with his English proficiency. Kids nowadays in South East Asia countries such as Singapore and Malaysia usually have a strong command of the English language due to over-zealous parents preparing to send them overseas for their tertiary study. (especially the Chinese ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) ) In many cases, English have become their first language, and their command of their native languages have waned considerably due to the advent of English-based education. Having studied at Singapore, Zhou Tong's English proficiency is not a wonder at all. This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.
When the breach of LastPass and bitcoinica's mtgox account was announced, I found it equally plausible that it was a random thief rather than an insider (ie one of Patrick/steve_bobs, zhoutong/stevejobs, etc.). It's totally possible that someone would have verified that info@bitcoinica.com is a LastPass account (this can be verified since LastPass leaks account registration status through the Forgot Password option), and then tried the MtGox API key after the source code leak. But anyone could have done that, literally anyone (seriously, I kicked myself for having not tried it myself). But the particular person who did exploit this, also happened to be one of a very few people who also knew the password to zhoutong's stevejobs807@gmail.com. Of all the numerously possible potential thiefs who had equal opportunity to log-in to LastPass, the breach was in fact highly likely, all the info was there. And of all those possibilities, what is likelihood that the one person who first took advantage also knew zhoutong's private throw-away gmail password, so that they could frame him? The probability is highly suspicious. I'd agree, there is a point here. I've mulled over the details carefully, but something seems amiss in this case. The guy could just have used a simple throwaway anonymous email account, but yet used one of his anonymous email accounts (purportedly to be created just for 'sockpuppeting'), and hoping that they could frame him easily? If they wanted to frame him, using this anonymous email account (which had no obvious connection to him) seems like not the brightest thing ever. Also, if they wanted to frame him just to put the limelight off their backs, it would make no sense at all to own up after an hour or so of phone talks, plus they could just make an completely anonymous throwaway email account and have no existing connection to this case at all. Unless it was Zhou Tong being careless and reusing an old sockpuppet email that he thought to have no connections to himself... I'm not implying anything here in this thread, I'm just voicing out my thoughts here. I'll be grateful if someone could pick out the errors in my train of thought.
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naima53
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July 29, 2012, 05:51:28 PM |
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The stevejobs807@gmail.com mtgox account was only "verified" as in "click this link to confirm your e-mail address", not an MtGox identity-verified account. Zhou has a different mtgox account for his real identity, plus the bitcoinica mtgox account, at least. the stevejobs gmail was only used at mtgox a long time ago, this time it was used at AurumXchange.
It was Chris Heaslip's mtgox account which was used to buy more bitcoin with some of the $40k USD mtgox codes, and then withdraw the bitcoin. Oh, sorry, I'm confused, it's really a long soap opera, my brain was fucked many times, I really wonder I ever get my money back? *begin_sarcasm br / (I understand that all involved want to wait for prices to 100 dollars per coin and \ or do not pay \ pay a gesture of vanity?)*and_sarcazm
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virtuallylaw
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July 29, 2012, 05:57:57 PM |
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I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.
He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.
The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV. Thank you Zhou for your cooperation. I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants. Thank you, Patrick Murck Principal | Engage Legal PLLC
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Coinoisseur
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July 29, 2012, 06:50:34 PM |
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This has yet to be addressed by Zhou.
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augustocroppo
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July 29, 2012, 07:28:59 PM |
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There is more than a single person behind the user zhoutong. There is a ghost writer following the instructions of another person which dictates every answer. A single person could not express such astonishing English skills so well garnished with technical details.
There is enough contradictions in every response from zhoutong which indicates the information is consistently fictional.
Not one single character or description is factual.
A script is in place and the user zhoutong is only following the lines.
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dree12
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July 29, 2012, 07:32:01 PM |
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There is more than a single person behind the user zhoutong. There is a ghost writer following the instructions of another person which dictates every answer. A single person could not express such astonishing English skills so well garnished with technical details.
There is enough contradictions in every response from zhoutong which indicates the information is consistently fictional.
Not one single character or description is factual.
A script is in place and the user zhoutong is only following the lines.
Please, be rational. It seems that either people claim Zhou Tong and Chen Jinghai are one person, or that people claim Zhou Tong is more than one person. Wouldn't it be rational to claim that Zhou Tong is one person, and Chen Jinghai is another?
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