greBit
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August 02, 2012, 12:10:21 PM |
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Private conversations with Zhou Tong that make sense and match exactly what he said on the forum (without being snide, why is it that no one is talking to Zhou? Why are they just repeating the same mindless snot in this thread? Ask him yourself.). I'll ask him if it's okay if I post it here, but it might make sense for him to get the money back from the thief before producing evidence that the theft happened in order not to disrupt the process.
Totally agree that this kind of evidence could back up his story a lot, and yes it would be silly for him to post things that could influence the recuperation of funds. I imagine though that for a lot of people the more important question is `who is the real person behind the online identity "zhou tong"?` I also agree that the best way to settle this question is to talk to Zhou directly, and this could be done simply and efficiently via a skype video chat. Or is this not a reasonable proposal?
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DarkEmi
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August 02, 2012, 12:13:28 PM |
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With that said, I still believe ZT is innocent and is doing his best, but I reserve my judgement and I respect other people rights to voice their opinion.
Right - and you've got a huuge stake in this issue. May I ask you why you think he's innocent because from where I'm sitting it sure does seem like he's more guilty than he is innocent? As I said, I reserve my judgement : If he is proven guilty then I would probably be very angry toward him and expect a lot more. Right now, everything is confused, at least he is very active and show willingness to help, so so far I cant really blame him.
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vampire
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August 02, 2012, 12:18:50 PM |
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Private conversations with Zhou Tong that make sense and match exactly what he said on the forum (without being snide, why is it that no one is talking to Zhou? Why are they just repeating the same mindless snot in this thread? Ask him yourself.). I'll ask him if it's okay if I post it here, but it might make sense for him to get the money back from the thief before producing evidence that the theft happened in order not to disrupt the process.
Until he produces a police report against Chen, Chen is a figure of his fantasy. An imaginary friend.
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Inedible
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 02, 2012, 12:29:01 PM |
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Private conversations with Zhou Tong that make sense and match exactly what he said on the forum (without being snide, why is it that no one is talking to Zhou? Why are they just repeating the same mindless snot in this thread? Ask him yourself.). I'll ask him if it's okay if I post it here, but it might make sense for him to get the money back from the thief before producing evidence that the theft happened in order not to disrupt the process.
Until he produces a police report against Chen, Chen is a figure of his fantasy. An imaginary friend. It would be a bad idea to release those conversations even with ZT's permission if it would negatively impact recuperating the stolen funds. A police report from China really isn't what you think it would be. If like me, you live in a Western country and have a decent police force you might be mistaken in thinking that this would be a good way to go about things. In China, you can 'influence' how a police officer sees things with something as simple as a carton of cigarettes. If you don't want to deal with a strong headed police officer then you can see the political head of that region and explain to them why the matter should go away. Also, when you're not present locally, it would be very hard to make a report, especially for something so complex. It's one thing for the local police in China to deal with a local theft of physical goods but it's quite another for them to deal with a crypto-currency with multiple international jurisdictions. My personal opinion is that going to the police before funds are recovered for those with a financial interest in this case would be detrimental. It would also hinder ZT from recovering the funds from his business associate. Also, if anyone were to file a claim, shouldn't it be Bitcoinica? Am I right in saying that this attack happened after the sale?
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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vampire
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August 02, 2012, 12:33:31 PM |
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It would be a bad idea to release those conversations even with ZT's permission if it would negatively impact recuperating the stolen funds.
A police report from China really isn't what you think it would be. If like me, you live in a Western country and have a decent police force you might be mistaken in thinking that this would be a good way to go about things.
In China, you can 'influence' how a police officer sees things with something as simple as a carton of cigarettes. If you don't want to deal with a strong headed police officer then you can see the political head of that region and explain to them why the matter should go away. Also, when you're not present locally, it would be very hard to make a report, especially for something so complex.
It's one thing for the local police in China to deal with a local theft of physical goods but it's quite another for them to deal with a crypto-currency with multiple international jurisdictions.
My personal opinion is that going to the police before funds are recovered for those with a financial interest in this case would be detrimental. It would also hinder ZT from recovering the funds from his business associate.
Also, if anyone were to file a claim, shouldn't it be Bitcoinica? Am I right in saying that this attack happened after the sale?
Chen stole Zhou's identity. Used it for credit card fraud and steal money from Bitcoinica. Australian police would suffice, Zhou resided there during the theft. And whatever you just wrote above directly applies to Zhou, he claimed that he got funds back from Chen by threatening with Chinese police. As of right now Zhou is black mailing.
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greBit
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August 02, 2012, 12:37:27 PM Last edit: August 02, 2012, 12:52:16 PM by greBit |
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Zhou Tong is directly linked to the recent hack. This is not debatable - he says that he was a victim of identity theft, through which Chen stole lots of cash. So it is fairly normal for people to question his version of events is it not? People have lost a lot of money after all. Reasoning for this line of thought:
Users have claimed Zhou Tong is guilty of stealing Bitcoinica funds without any proof of it whatsoever.
Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is guilty of money laundering without understanding Chinese culture.
Yes people should not make unfounded accusations. Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is lying because he has not backed up his response with evidence, yet neglect to have the same line of reasoning with the suspiciously quiet AurumXChange's Roberto.
We cannot take one person's version of events, (either for or against ZT), at face value without sufficient evidence. It is just logical. I don't really see the connection with Roberto, sounds like a separate issue for another thread. Users have claimed that Zhou Tong is not really Zhou Tong and someone else entirely-- this is quite bizarre considering he has numerous bank accounts with his name on them, businesses registered in his name, and has never once done anything to make anyone think otherwise.
Again it seems like a reasonable thing to want to know the real identity behind a business, responsible for storing peoples money. Zhou Tong is not an exception and neither should any of the people involved with BTC businesses. Being new here I have probably missed something - can you point me to the thread about his bank accounts and such. [Edit] Found the ZT photos link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86594.msg953155#msg953155Seems convincing though a photo-ID would have been nice Users have claimed that Zhou Tong works with criminals -- Yahoo's last CEO Scott Thompson lied about his tech degree, that must mean Yahoo are all liars and work with liars. ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) Kevin Mitnick is a known hacker who has broken numerous laws, numerous big companies ask for his advice in protecting against fraud. This does not make those companies criminals. Wasn't that part of ZT's version of events, that he worked for a criminal relic collector? So it is apparently true. But yes this does not necessarily incriminate ZT.
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IIOII
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August 02, 2012, 12:41:22 PM |
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... This thread does not decide who is guilty or innocent. This thread merely discusses possibilities. The fact that there are so many people here with their minds "made up" and "ready to take action" should remind the rest of us what bitcoiners look like to the rest of the world-- like wackos. ...
... My personal opinion is that going to the police before funds are recovered for those with a financial interest in this case would be detrimental. It would also hinder ZT from recovering the funds from his business associate. ...
Why do I get the feeling that a lot of FUD is being spread here? Well, I don't know. ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) Please ZT, can I be on your payroll too?
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drrussellshane
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August 02, 2012, 12:47:37 PM |
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What's all this I hear about a "criminal relic collector"? ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_V4w18ZWaPas%2FS6vBWHEgQ6I%2FAAAAAAAAFqM%2FIXnNvgr2qv0%2Fs1600%2FIndiana-Jones-V-Lao-Che.jpg&t=665&c=PIv9TVckg0CAtw)
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Buy a TREZOR! Premier BTC hardware wallet. If you're reading this, you should probably buy one if you don't already have one. You'll thank me later.
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DarkEmi
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August 02, 2012, 12:54:42 PM |
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This thread does not decide who is guilty or innocent. This thread merely discusses possibilities. The fact that there are so many people here with their minds "made up" and "ready to take action" should remind the rest of us what bitcoiners look like to the rest of the world-- like wackos.
I dont know what "real world" you live in, but in mine people gets shit over and beaten for less than 1k and just suspicions And for bigger sum they can be locked up till everything is cleared so, then sentenced to prison. So imagine for 400k ? I bet a lot of people have died for less than that. I am not threathening Zhou in any way and I am not supporting any violent action, I just want to clear the fact that this is not a small matter
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Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
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August 02, 2012, 01:00:17 PM |
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This thread does not decide who is guilty or innocent. This thread merely discusses possibilities. The fact that there are so many people here with their minds "made up" and "ready to take action" should remind the rest of us what bitcoiners look like to the rest of the world-- like wackos.
I dont know what "real world" you live in, Were you quoting "real world" as if I had said "real world", which I didn't? Or were you just being sarcastic? in mine people gets shit over and beaten for less than 1k and just suspicions
I think you should move. And for bigger sum they can be locked up till everything is cleared so, then sentenced to prison.
Yep, you should probably move. So imagine for 400k ?
Whoa, what? What 400k? Did anyone steal 400K? Is Zhou connected to someone stealing 400k? Where did you get that figure from? The last time I checked this thread, Aurumxchange was holding $40k of Zhou's money or something to that nature, and Chen was caught stealing something as well, which Zhou is trying to get back from him. Refresh my memory.
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DrFred
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August 02, 2012, 01:03:54 PM Last edit: August 02, 2012, 02:03:10 PM by Maged |
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So imagine for 400k ?
Whoa, what? What 400k? Did anyone steal 400K? Is Zhou connected to someone stealing 400k? Where did you get that figure from? The last time I checked this thread, Aurumxchange was holding $40k of Zhou's money or something to that nature, and Chen was caught stealing something as well, which Zhou is trying to get back from him. Refresh my memory. The users funds they are still holding and haven't returned. Until that money is returned they have stolen over 400k USD.
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Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
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August 02, 2012, 01:06:43 PM |
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So imagine for 400k ?
Whoa, what? What 400k? Did anyone steal 400K? Is Zhou connected to someone stealing 400k? Where did you get that figure from? The last time I checked this thread, Aurumxchange was holding $40k of Zhou's money or something to that nature, and Chen was caught stealing something as well, which Zhou is trying to get back from him. Refresh my memory. The users funds they are still holding and haven't returned. Until that money is returned they have stolen over 400k USD. So the poster DarkEmi was confusing this event related to a identity theft for a small amount with Bitcoinica's funds (which are held by Intersango/Tihan)?
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Inedible
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
August 02, 2012, 01:08:51 PM |
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Zhou Tong is directly linked to the recent hack. This is not debatable - he says that he was a victim of identity theft, through which Chen stole lots of cash.
Sure. So it is fairly normal for people to question his version of events is it not? People have lost a lot of money after all.
Absolutely - it's just that some people aren't just questioning. If people had only questioned and voiced their doubts, we'd have a whole lot more information from ZT. Right now he's probably keeping information to himself in case police involvement prevents him from getting his/his friend's $40K back.
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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Inedible
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August 02, 2012, 01:09:55 PM |
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Chen stole Zhou's identity. Used it for credit card fraud and steal money from Bitcoinica. Australian police would suffice, Zhou resided there during the theft.
And whatever you just wrote above directly applies to Zhou, he claimed that he got funds back from Chen by threatening with Chinese police.
As of right now Zhou is black mailing.
That being the case, can ZT give us some indication as to why you've not gone to the Australian police? (If your reasons would make you vulnerable to the angry mob you could at least acknowledge the question). Agreed that police involvement would appear to scare 'Chen' into co-operating. It's actually also part of the reason why I have doubts as to whether Chen exists. That being said, I believe ZT has additional leverage on Chen (e.g. knowing other information on him/family). It's fair to say there's very little info here and what there is could conceivably be made up (i.e. Chen doesn't exist).
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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Inedible
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August 02, 2012, 01:12:01 PM |
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I may be missing something, but where is the evidence of identity theft? Do you have other sources apart from a post made by the `Zhou Tong` ?
This is a fair point. I suspect that if there is any additional proof it would only be available from the exchanges. It's unlikely the exchanges are going to make this public any time soon.
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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Matthew N. Wright
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August 02, 2012, 01:13:49 PM |
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It's unlikely the exchanges are going to make this public any time soon.
It's funny how that works. They don't mind libeling and breaking their privacy agreement with a user to make claims that he's a crook publicly, but they don't want to post proof and run off of the forums with their tails between their legs once legal action is threatened. Priceless.
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Inedible
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August 02, 2012, 01:15:12 PM |
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Why do I get the feeling that a lot of FUD is being spread here? Well, I don't know. ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) Please ZT, can I be on your payroll too? Always good to be sceptical. I'm not trying to spread FUD. Any uncertainty and doubt already exists and if you read my posts, I'm neither for or against ZT so I'd be poor value as a paid sock-puppet. It would be foolish to accept anything I say as fact because I've no more credibility than the next person but I've not made any claims and I'm unlikely to as I don't have access to any new information.
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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DarkEmi
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August 02, 2012, 01:20:22 PM |
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Whoa, what? What 400k? Did anyone steal 400K? Is Zhou connected to someone stealing 400k? Where did you get that figure from?
The last time I checked this thread, Aurumxchange was holding $40k of Zhou's money or something to that nature, and Chen was caught stealing something as well, which Zhou is trying to get back from him. Refresh my memory.
You seem totally biased. Yes, someone stole 40k btc and 40k$ or around that figure, in bitcoins and $, which amount if I am correct to around 400k$, and yes, someone connected to Zhou stole that amount. I am not saying that Zhou did it, I indeed think he did not and is "just" connected to the thief, but please get down from your high horses.
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Inedible
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August 02, 2012, 01:21:25 PM |
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It's unlikely the exchanges are going to make this public any time soon.
It's funny how that works. They don't mind libeling and breaking their privacy agreement with a user to make claims that he's a crook publicly, but they don't want to post proof and run off of the forums with their tails between their legs once legal action is threatened. Priceless. I've been looking through the thread but I don't see anything conclusive that says they pointed the finger. I've probably missed it as there are 50 pages. Did they do the finger pointing first? I.e. they made it public first AND also disclosed private information. Can I also clarify that this isn't AurumXchange we're talking about here but Bitcoinica?
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If this post was useful, interesting or entertaining, then you've misunderstood.
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sadpandatech
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August 02, 2012, 01:31:17 PM |
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So imagine for 400k ?
Whoa, what? What 400k? Did anyone steal 400K? Is Zhou connected to someone stealing 400k? Where did you get that figure from? The last time I checked this thread, Aurumxchange was holding $40k of Zhou's money or something to that nature, and Chen was caught stealing something as well, which Zhou is trying to get back from him. Refresh my memory. There was 40k BTC and 40k USD taken. ZT stated something along the lines of the BTC being sold at $7.25? was it? (might have to spend a bit more time reading and less time playing public defender to find it) 40k x 7.25 = $290000 + $40k = $330,000 The current retail value of that 40k puts the total at or over $400,000....
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If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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