Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack

[disclaimer201]

Bitcoinica experienced the third major hack on July 12, 2012. According to Bitcoinica's announcement, 40,000 BTC and $40,000 were stolen.

[…]

Chen Jianhai has agreed to return at least $140,000 and 20,000 BTC under the condition that Bitcoinica LP will not start a police investigation about the hack. I have made it clear to him that I will have zero tolerance on this wrong-doing and if the promised amount is not paid back, I will make his identifiable information available to the police, and possibly public.

Out of curiosity: could you offer him this guarantee? Did you receive this guarantee from Bitcoinica? According to Tihan Seale, none of the board of the directors member was moving or talking, so whose decision was it?

Does this also mean that you do not intend to collaborate with the investigators should a legal action be started, and that you will withhold the identifiable information you possess about Chen Jianhai while you know that he committed the crime and did not return the whole stolen property (especially given today Bitcoin exchange rates) belonging to Bitcoinica creditors? Wouldn't that make you an accessory of the crime?

To be convicted of an accessory charge, the accused must generally be proved to have had actual knowledge that a crime was going to be, or had been, committed. Furthermore, there must be proof that the accessory knew that his or her action, or inaction, was helping the criminals commit the crime, or evade detection, or escape.

Obviously, I can't. But I sort of made up his mind for him. Even if police investigation has to take place, the punishment will be much less if he can return majority of the funds in a reasonable timeframe.

I believe that in any case I have no liability for offering him this guarantee, regardless of the outcome. I just want the money back, more than anything else. I have never said that I would not co-operate with any investigation.

EDIT:

For me, there's no trust or whatsoever with Chen Jianhai. In my previous dealing with him, all was about his experience in credit card fraud. I acted like sort of a journalist who paid some insiders to know truths.

If you get the money back, what will you do with it? Pay back customers, or give it to the Intersango boys?

[1715385357]

1715385357

[1715385357]

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[BitBuster]

if he can return majority of the funds in a reasonable timeframe.

Hows that going?


BB.

[guruvan]

I, for one, wanted to puke at the shameless plugs in that email zhoutong,.

Oh, yeah, where's the damn money? All I see is a bunch more bullshit, and no money.

You perpetuate the joke of a reputation you've developed for yourself. Your whining in that letter was pathetic.

Shut up, and return the stolen money.

[aq]

I, for one, wanted to puke at the shameless plugs in that email zhoutong,.

Oh, yeah, where's the damn money? All I see is a bunch more bullshit, and no money.

You perpetuate the joke of a reputation you've developed for yourself. Your whining in that letter was pathetic.

Shut up, and return the stolen money.

Well, both ZT and to some extent Amir (genjix) wanted to make a fast pay back of the funds, which has been prevented by Donald and Patrick. So, if ZT offer to handle this would have not been denied by the this incapable consultancy, the theft would not have happened, because we would have had our money back since ages.

[carafleur]

Zouthong: Any update about the claim database backup ? I don't want to bring bad luck, but many mistakes have been made in the past, so maybe it would be a good thing to send this precious backup to several trustworthy persons.
BTW I wanted to thank you for your last email, I found it very moving. I really hope the best for you, it's a shame you're in the front line of this mess, but it's all of your honor to keep trying to sort it out.
Once you'll have overcome this shitstorm, I believe you'll be able to take some good and well deserved rest
Cheers

[naima53]

I just leave it here ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOS7-vfFNJQ#t=0m55

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Zouthong: Any update about the claim database backup ? I don't want to bring bad luck, but many mistakes have been made in the past, so maybe it would be a good thing to send this precious backup to several trustworthy persons.
BTW I wanted to thank you for your last email, I found it very moving. I really hope the best for you, it's a shame you're in the front line of this mess, but it's all of your honor to keep trying to sort it out.
Once you'll have overcome this shitstorm, I believe you'll be able to take some good and well deserved rest
Cheers

+1

May I suggest myfreecams.com? It'll do Boy Wonder's body wonder.

~Bruno~

[mc_lovin]

Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database?  When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup.  I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero.  Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something. 

When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?

[BadBear]

They did have a backup..in the same place so it isn't really a backup heh.

The forums have better backup practices than they did.

[aq]

Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database?  When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup.  I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero.  Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something. 

When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?

Why don't you read the 1000000000 posts about this subject? And BTW, he had backups in cloud, but the hacker deleted those also. I guess ZT learnt that some off-site backups would have been better.

[Gabi]

Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database?  When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup.  I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero.  Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something. 

When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?

THIS

This and the last hack  (the one about the btc and $ that were on mtgox) is why i think the bitcoinica thing is a epic scam.

I understand the first hack, shit happens, but the no backup and the last hack (lol, why the hell did they keep money on an exchange instead of a cold storage??) are SUSPECT.

Hell, i have much much much less btc and i have better backups than them!

[ninjarobot]

Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database?  When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup.  I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero.  Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something.  

When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?

THIS

This and the last hack  (the one about the btc and $ that were on mtgox) is why i think the bitcoinica thing is a epic scam.

I understand the first hack, shit happens, but the no backup and the last hack (lol, why the hell did they keep money on an exchange instead of a cold storage??) are SUSPECT.

Hell, i have much much much less btc and i have better backups than them!

That and the fact that they didn't bother enabling 2factor/yubikey authentication on MtGox nor LastPass (where they kept the master password). They even manually raised the withdrawal limits to the 40K max on the MtGox account. Probably MtGox sent them a couple of yubikeys for free too. (I got one after my account reached 1K). When you are dealing with large amounts of other peoples cash you would think the thought of properly securing it should have crossed their minds.

[disclaimer201]

Zhou Tong: Why were there NO BACKUPS of the database?  When I make a website of ANY caliber, I always keep a backup.  I'll save a backup on multiple hard drives on my server so the chance of losing all three or four copies is almost zero.  Even when writing a long email to someone, I'll write it in notepad and save it to my desktop every couple paragraphs because it's SO frustrating to lose even an hour of work on something.  

When your website had passed the $1,000,000 volume mark, you don't think it would have been a good idea to back up your database?

THIS

This and the last hack  (the one about the btc and $ that were on mtgox) is why i think the bitcoinica thing is a epic scam.

I understand the first hack, shit happens, but the no backup and the last hack (lol, why the hell did they keep money on an exchange instead of a cold storage??) are SUSPECT.

Hell, i have much much much less btc and i have better backups than them!

That and the fact that they didn't bother enabling 2factor/yubikey authentication on MtGox nor LastPass (where they kept the master password). They even manually raised the withdrawal limits to the 40K max on the MtGox account. Probably MtGox sent them a couple of yubikeys for free too. (I got one after my account reached 1K). When you are dealing with large amounts of other peoples cash you would think the thought of properly securing it should have crossed their minds.

^THIS

[BitBuster]

Regardless of the legal outcome, it is clear to see that all thefts from Bitcoinica were the result of:

1. Inside job.
2. Gross/Wilful Negligence.

Either way, all parties who had access to and responsibility (whether legal or de facto) for Bitcoinica are bang to rights guilty.

That is to say that the Intersango Trio of "security experts", Zhou Tong and anyone else with control or significant interest were either complicit in or masterminded deliberate fraud, or deliberately neglected to properly protect and secure the assets, making theft much easier than it should have been.

No sympathy or credibility should be afforded to any of these people; they are directly responsible for yet another embarrassing and despicable crime against the bitcoin community.


BB.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Regardless of the legal outcome, it is clear to see that all thefts from Bitcoinica were the result of:

1. Inside job.
2. Gross/Wilful Negligence.

Either way, all parties who had access to and responsibility (whether legal or de facto) for Bitcoinica are bang to rights guilty.

That is to say that the Intersango Trio of "security experts", Zhou Tong and anyone else with control or significant interest were either complicit in or masterminded deliberate fraud, or deliberately neglected to properly protect and secure the assets, making theft much easier than it should have been.

No sympathy or credibility should be afforded to any of these people; they are directly responsible for yet another embarrassing and despicable crime against the bitcoin community.

BB.

Hence my claim-to-flame Google Fuing, of which my Google history should be worth thousands, if not for the fact my efforts are being swept under an online porn site girl's Snuggie®.

The only saving grace is...

http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105649/bitcoins-are-back-least-porn-and-poker

Then, around May of this year, a strange thing happened: The number of daily bitcoin transactions, according to blockchain.info, suddenly doubled, tripled, then quadrupled. Finally, it seemed that denizens of the Internet had begun to appreciate the benefits of bitcoin not only as a get-rich-quick scheme but as a means of transaction.

The author fails to mention FULLY that the rise is/was mainly due in part to SatoshiDice. And who is this Paul Steinbart dude that the author is quoting, yet I can't find said quotes elsewhere, with the exception of Scoops?

~Bruno~

[Raoul Duke]

And who is this Paul Steinbart dude that the author is quoting, yet I can't find said quotes elsewhere, with the exception of Scoops?

Irfan E. Kanat, Paul Steinbart and Ajay Vinze “BitCoin: Fad or Disruptive Innovation”
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=2237587
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039653
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039600

That work is only listed on "Current Projects" of Ajay Vinze, interestingly.

[BCB]

And who is this Paul Steinbart dude that the author is quoting, yet I can't find said quotes elsewhere, with the exception of Scoops?

Irfan E. Kanat, Paul Steinbart and Ajay Vinze “BitCoin: Fad or Disruptive Innovation”
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=2237587
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039653
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039600

That work is only listed on "Current Projects" of Ajay Vinze, interestingly.

They don't look like bitcoiners.  They are all wearing ties.  Maybe they've never been to Vegas!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

And who is this Paul Steinbart dude that the author is quoting, yet I can't find said quotes elsewhere, with the exception of Scoops?

Irfan E. Kanat, Paul Steinbart and Ajay Vinze “BitCoin: Fad or Disruptive Innovation”
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=2237587
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039653
http://wpcarey.asu.edu/directory/people/profile.cfm?person=1039600

That work is only listed on "Current Projects" of Ajay Vinze, interestingly.

I had no problem finding him. I just could find where the quote stemmed from since the author does state in the article I linked as to where and how he obtained said quote.

~Bruno~

[yepreally]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but is anyone able to see their claim page anymore?  Mine appears to be gone.

While I am very concerned about getting the money secured and ready to be paid out, I'm even more concerned about how they will determine who gets paid.

Do we know who will be responsible for paying once the money is freed up?  Will this person be able to access our claims from bitcoinica (if they still exist)?

I've been following the forums since May, but have not had an account until recently.  I'm afraid that the less vocal people will be overlooked when the time comes to start paying again.  Or maybe my hopes are too high and everyone has given up on seeing our money again...

[ninjarobot]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but is anyone able to see their claim page anymore?  Mine appears to be gone.

While I am very concerned about getting the money secured and ready to be paid out, I'm even more concerned about how they will determine who gets paid.

Do we know who will be responsible for paying once the money is freed up?  Will this person be able to access our claims from bitcoinica (if they still exist)?

I've been following the forums since May, but have not had an account until recently.  I'm afraid that the less vocal people will be overlooked when the time comes to start paying again.  Or maybe my hopes are too high and everyone has given up on seeing our money again...

The personal claims pages disappeared a while ago (2+ weeks ago). No explanation why though, perhaps as a parting middle finger to customers from the Bitclown Consultancy.

I really hope that the reimbursement db is safe & secure (Including data on any repayments already made before the MtGox compromise.)

Personally, I certainly have not given up on seeing my money again. Tihan is putting Bitcoinica in receivership and then liquidation, all proceeds from the liquidation will go towards reimbursing customers afaik.