PM to phantomcircuit (Patrick Strateman) & to ID: intersango (Staff - I assume)

Hi,

Please visit your Intersango thread & let the numerous customers of yours who have been waiting since Friday for UK bank withdrawals know what is going on & when they can expect their money, the longer you leave this the more it pisses off your customers, puts potential new ones off & leads to adverse speculation of why this may be going on while you provide no explanations.

Thanks,

Otoh

That's just the problem, they last said on Monday that everything is fine & "We're sorry for the delays. UK payments have now been sent." - Donald. But this is not true & despite repeated attempts to get an explanation from them - nothing!

Yes it was & for me around 2 AM in Spain, their staff only seem to come in to the office at night, second job/intern/vampire or something I expect, the Admins can be there at any hours - sometimes very early, sometimes very late also - I've had 4.30 AM replies, but then some days no one seems to bother going to work at all, at least nothing happens that was meant to like transfers out or info on why the delays.

email to support@intersango.com

Hi,

"Our support team is available by email at support@intersango.com to quickly answer any questions you may have. Please feel free to contact us. We are happy to help."

Re: #35880

UKWithdrawalRequested Friday 10th August

requested

1433.10 GBP

Why are you ignoring me, why don't you let your customers know what's going on & when it will be sorted out, why won't you return my money in a timely fashion, why does your support page still say that UK bank withdrawals are processed daily when this is not true & you know it, I know of at least 3 other people who have been waiting since Friday - when are you going to send their funds, it is so simple & if your bank have problems then just go & do it in person over the counter next day.

To intentionally deprive others of their money permanently is theft, to do it for as long as you can get away with it is fraud, unless you can give a reliable date when this will be resolved so that your customers can make informed decisions & alternative arrangements if required then I will have to consider this behavior scamming & the worst business practice.

What is your telephone numbers or Skype, you have mine, call me & get this sorted out rather than ruining a whole week for your clients & wrecking your reputation.

My Skype ID: xxx

Thanks for your immediate attention to this well overdue matter,

Otoh

By posting here, it can hopefully act as a warning for anyone else thinking of trusting their funds to Intersango & to inform them that the ToS support page is blatantly false when it states:

Bank/Payment service, Withdrawal time, Payments sent daily.

Intersango know this but do not correct it to show how long it will actually take. This is their thread, if they cared in the slightest about their customers & any potential new ones they would at least visit it once in a while & update them here when they are having problems about when they will be solved, so that their customers can make informed decisions & alternative arrangements if needed - in the past I have given up & re-bought coins at a loss, moved them to Gox where I sold them at another loss in $, then exchanged them to GBP at a loss & wired them from Japan to the UK for 2,000 Yen plus other bank fees & it's still faster than what should be a simple straightforward Intersango withdrawal.

No, I don't think that I'm over reacting, I was told that all UK transfers had been made & so committed this money, my money note - not Intersango's, this commitment is now in default & causing me extreme knock on stress, problems & expense. I get no updates or explanation from Intersango, when I query this their system is so stupid & badly designed as to remove my case from Admin needs attention field, this isn't about geeks not being good at customer service it is about a constant failure to operate a half way professional business & have the common curtsey to keep customers informed when there are delays. Gox international wires are different altogether & yes I have used them & it has been a much better experience than this.

#35880

UKWithdrawalRequested Friday 10th August

requested

1433.10 GBP

Donald hi,

Kindly send me my money now, today, this morning, this is urgent, I have had a support ticket open since first thing Monday & am just getting the run around - like 'all UK payments have been sent' when it hasn't & is still on requested only, then nothing - no updates, no explanation, no processing & no money.

It takes less than five minutes to make a UK faster bank transfer to a return customer & in 3 days you could at least have visited your bank withdrawn the cash & deposited it in mine at Lloyds, please get your act together as I have had this so many times with Britcoin/Intersango & it causes real inconvenience & unnecessary stress.

Later today I shall be lodging a complaint with Metro bank business customer services, that you are withholding my funds without authorization & refuse to provide any explanation as to why & then I shall escalate this matter in every way I can think of until you return my money.

Thanks,

Otoh

Edit:

emailed to donald@bitcoinconsultancy.com (Donald Norman - CEO)

Hi Otoh,

This is not the right contact. Your ticket should be answered in time
but Intersango doesn't guarantee any response time.

emailed to: patrick@intersango.com (Patrick Strateman - CTO)

... awaiting response

Aug. 14, 2012, 10:54 p.m. Chris needs_staff_action -> needs_admin_action

Hello Otoh,

Please allow the admin to investigate. If you choose to respond, please make sure the ticket status remains on 'Needs Admin Action.' When you respond and resend to staff action it removes it from the queue for the admin.

I will forward your input to management. In the meantime, please be patient as we look to resolve your issue.

Regards,

Chris
Team Intersango

So it seems that by replying & chasing the issue up because nothing has progressed at all, their internal systems remove you from the queue to be dealt with even though Admin were meant to be actively & urgently solving this issue already - tomorrow unless my money is in my bank account first thing I shall email Donald's personal email & all the other Intersango team, then contact Metro bank business customer services to denounce that my funds are being held without authorization from me or explanation from Intersango, the next day I shall lodge a complaint with the banking ombudsman & the following with the police.

see edit above, ah sry I was priceing them in BTC by mistake, so yep 100k LTC at say $6,000 to $10,000 depending on how much in bulk OTC you could scoop up, actually that's much better too as there aren't enough coins atm to find 1M easily

Famous last words, but congrats on landing one anyway - not obvious to turn a Casascius 1,000 coin into one of these watches, but may be interesting if Cas took it up with Corum for a feasibility/market study

Request for a 100,000 LTC (Litecoin) 1 oz platinum Casascius coin run, say $6,000 - $10,000 for the coins depending if you can get good OTC bulk prices (prob more as there's only about 9M out there atm I think), plus $1,400 for the platinum + $200 mark up & maybe more for first run tooling etc, $10,000 to $12,000 a pop perhaps

Also 10,000 LTC, 1,000 LTC etc would be cool too

btw OP could be updated to > $12,500 just for the BTC atm + $1,850 ($1,600 gold + $250 to your min gold price) + $200 Cas = $14,550

edited 15th Aug

seriously we should ask Casasius to make a 1,000,000 LTC version, cheaper too at $5,000 to $6,000 & say $1,400 in Platinum perhaps + mark up = approx $8,000 to $9,000 maybe

edit: I just did https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54845.msg1100259#msg1100259

Since you bought your coin at LV a couple or so weeks ago the bitcoins in it have gone from about $9,000 to $12,340 & the gold from about $1,620 to $1,600 - over 37% nice

They haven't announced it officially as yet, it was mentioned by their support (Mod) in the https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_btc exchange chat forum just before I made this thread, you could PM him there for further info I expect.

<snip>

Smoovious: I'm on reaper

crazy_rabbit: Besides, I'd wait to see how supports annoucement of stock tradeing goes. You'll be able to buy stock with LTC.

crazy_rabbit: Or Gold.

Ismael: I don't know if that is going to work

Ismael: I know I'm not going to use that service

Smoovious: it'll work better than the DVC ones

BBtraders: crazy - u mean actual nse??

Ismael: I mean it sounds good, but I think its more risky than investing in Pirate

crazy_rabbit: You can already buy gold with BTC at other margin ttrading sites that won't be mentioned here.

Ismael: coinabul?

crazy_rabbit: BBtraders. thats what support said. Stock traiding and gold/silver.

Otoh: you know pirate is dropping his rates by 2% per week from after next pay-out

Ismael: gold/silver is doable, but I'm a bit weary about the stock thing

crazy_rabbit: Not coinabul. Something else, but it's essentially a competitior so I won't mention it.

BBtraders: damn --- that's pretty sweet

crazy_rabbit: Well they will probably stat with gold/silver. The stock part is probably a ways off.

Ismael: Theres soooo many issues laying in the way of selling stocks for BTC/LTC

crazy_rabbit: But No reason why they can't plug into the russian exchange.

crazy_rabbit: Why? There are lots of stock markets.

crazy_rabbit: Some are very small, some are large.

Ismael: Well, tax issues

Ismael: for one

HauntingShade: why is pirate shutting down his service Otah?

Ismael: second, its illegal to use other peoples

HauntingShade: Otoh

crazy_rabbit: I presume someone in Russia has figured out how well BTC-E is doing and would support them plugging into their stock market.

Ismael: funds* to buy stocks as a group

Otoh: nope, just trimming his rates

Ismael: Unless you get a certain license

MartinX: HauntingShade, Pirate is closing its doors?

crazy_rabbit: I don't see why they woulnd' tjust get a liscense.

Otoh: Noo

Smoovious: if it was illegal to use other peoples funds to buy stocks as a group, then mutual funds would be illegal

crazy_rabbit: They do like almost a million dollars a month in volume.

crazy_rabbit: That's enough to register as a small bank.

Ismael: Some people in Brazil tried that

Ismael: and they got in a bunch of trouble recently

crazy_rabbit: They will just do whatever paperwork they need to do and it's fine.

crazy_rabbit: Remember it's Russia, their laws work a little different.

Ismael: actually, there is one set of laws all related to the stock market

<snip> just now

Another whole day passes by, no communication,  no update, no explanation, if there is a problem then you owe it to your customers to keep them informed of what it is & when it will most likely be resolved - it is totally unprofessional & unacceptable to fail to do this.

Appears that the BTC-E Russian exchange are planning to offer stock & PM etc trading in BTC & LTC, like buy/sell AAPL with BTC

(pse move thread if this is in the wrong section, ty...)

I have just received principle plus interest from a loan of 76.67 BTC made on the 15th of June 2012 @ 1.975% per week for 60 days, a total of 89.796 BTC, for a profit of 13.126 BTC.

In dollar terms I put in $453 & have just been returned $1,090 in under 2 months with a guaranteed loan, many thanks Smart & Co.!!!  

Aug. 13, 2012, 11:18 p.m. Donald needs_staff_action -> resolved

Hi Otoh,

We're sorry for the delays. UK payments have now been sent.

We do not have a backlog on payments but we were still working through a backlog of administrative tasks. If we are not able to get up to full speed we will soon adjust the site to reflect expected transfer times.

We are sorry for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,
Team Intersango


Aug. 13, 2012, 11:23 p.m. resolved -> needs_staff_action

Hi,

That's good to hear, thanks, it's still shown as just requested btw but I assume that you're in the process of updating that.

Sincerely,

Otoh

PS - thanks for the hours you guys put in, I hope that you can get some sleep too.


Aug. 13, 2012, 11:57 p.m. Chris needs_staff_action -> needs_admin_action

...


Aug. 14, 2012, 12:32 a.m. needs_admin_action -> needs_staff_action

Hi Chris,

Your last message was blank btw, still shows requested

Thanks,

Otoh


Aug. 14, 2012, 12:34 a.m. Chris needs_staff_action -> needs_admin_action

Hi Otoh,

I forwarded ticket status to admin. Thank you for your patience.


Aug. 14, 2012, 9:03 a.m. needs_admin_action -> needs_staff_action

Hi,

10 AM UK time Tuesday, yesterday you said that "UK payments have now been sent" & marked my case as resolved, I queried this as it is still only marked as 'requested' & the ticket status was forwarded to admin. This needs dealing with & to be sent this morning, as my previous emails I have had this same problem constantly with UK withdrawals from back in the Britcoin days onwards, you no sooner posted that the problem had been fixed & everything was being processed daily when it once again immediately breaks down. I withdrew the coins that I had up for trading on your site yesterday & have no intention of returning until there is clear evidence that you can function as per your ToS & will update your web page & thread to confirm that you are doing so. I suggest you follow the practice of the PPT Bitcoin Max who lists pending withdrawals in real time for all to see on his site as he appreciates the importance of people being able to take their money back out is paramount. I expect my funds to be sent within the next 3 hours, many thanks.

Sincerely,

Otoh


Aug. 14, 2012, 11:33 a.m. needs_staff_action -> needs_staff_action

U R G E N T

NEEDS ADMIN & STAFF ACTION

JUST SEND ME MY MONEY NOW PSE, I can send you money in less than 1 minute by Internet banking, you just confirmed that you were doing this daily when I requested 4 days ago now, why is this such a constant problem for you - I seriously advise you to close your site down until such time as you can operate a reasonable withdrawal service! In the mean time kindly remove the 'Payments sent daily. ' misinformation from your support page & update your forum thread to reflect just how long you expect to be able to do this simple but vital procedure atm.


 

note UK time is actually 1 hour on from that quoted on these messages...

That doesn't affect that it should be processed & marked as sent daily as stated on their site, Mon thru Sat, if my bank don't clear it to my account until Monday then I'll still know at least that it'll be there first thing then.

As it is I've had a response from team Intersango & they're still clearing a little backlog apparently, if it hasn't been sent by Tuesday first thing then I'll add more re this - it really should have gone off today as it's been over 8 hours since I opened the support ticket even if my Friday W/D request was after hours.

...
I believe we are just having delays as we are still catching a tiny bit from a backlog that required a lot of work. However I will keep this on admin status incase the payment has been skipped for whatever reason.

Sincerely,
Donald
Team Intersango

OK - it's Otoh time to speculate on what pirate is up to again:

He runs or facilitates a high stakes gambling op, every week he sells about 21,000 BTC as chips to the participants, ie atm about $248,000 which with a couple of dozen or less professional & high rollers doesn't seem at all unfeasible to me, these players can be based anywhere in the world but are most likely local just as he states, can be anon, no paper trails or tax issues, no needing to have $0.25M cash sitting around & needing private security plus risking confiscation, pirate arranges the exchange to BTC for each weekly session & manages the cash/deposit handling from each of the participants individually & also cashes out any BTC winnings that they may wish to make, note these sorts of games are usually played at weekends, happy pirate day is right after that on Mondays.

This also explains why other ppl can & apparently do offer similar services based in other parts of the world & are not in direct competition because they have their own pool of punters, maybe locally/culturally sourced.

He sells the chips/BTC for spot plus 10% + to cover his banking/facilitating/overheads etc & so a 7% per week pay out is np as long as the games continue, he doesn't want to borrow or use (LOL @) "not USD or any other random ponzi fiat funny money" (TY BurtW) which makes sense as perhaps some of these players may get rather upset if anything were to happen with that, but this way he can keep the risks down while still playing Wall Street II.

It's just another wild speculative guess at what this might be or partly be, I haven't even looked in to how this would pan out longer term than he's run it so far or with increasing BTC price, he says that the next 6 months are looking good I believe so I'll let you guys take it from here if you'd care to give any feedback on this - welcome from fans & detractors both.

BTW - I'm celebrating my first 100% of pirate returns last Monday, having started modestly on 1st March & now have been seriously participating for a while.

Actually I believe that it's much more likely to be closer to Serge's guess, wealthy Texan oil barons planning a letter day Hunt bros on BTC:


Edit: I've now read the whole thread for the first time & also like ArticMine's theorem:

The Support page reads payments sent daily, but maybe that should read Mon to Fri only, as I requested one last Fri & at 10AM UK time Mon it still just says Requested - not processed or sent as yet, I trust that it will be sent this morning & am now opening a ticket for it.

#35880
UKWithdrawalRequest
requested
For between 1,000 & 2,000 GBP

You have 3.3217 BTC in there, which looks like they cost you $12.04 each after Bitinstant's commission/fees I guess, the tx has over 150 confirmations so np:

https://blockchain.info/address/1bSghpW8R5cetRX7Aqoz5EobyQDHgpc4g

I would recommend https://blockchain.info/wallet rather than the main Bitcoin client wallet for beginers

it costs far less than your proposed 3% management fee to covert BTC to $ & vv so I fail to see how your scheme adds anything but additional 3rd parties risk, sry - though I still wish it well & if one day it built to the lvl of trust, openness & professionalism of BV then that would be great

re BGC comment - holding physical personally for PM atm, that's the way I went for the half of my holdings that I didn't convert to BTC