bittybox
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 71
Merit: 2
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December 13, 2018, 11:36:31 PM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed.
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CryptoRobert
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December 14, 2018, 01:35:37 AM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. It doesn't really matter if that is technically cheating or not, morally it is and given the fact that such exploits are possible the team should immediately address this issue and avoid such exploits being possible or postpone the lottery and change the rules so as to guarantee it to be fair. Or else just lose another piece of community, which I suspect is NOT the purpose of this initiative.
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Moana
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December 14, 2018, 02:02:33 AM |
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1. This link to the page which explains the new distribution is quite hidden - not on OP, not on Website, how are people supposed to find it? https://medium.com/byteball/weekly-draw-for-the-byteball-community-f464ae731c882, On this page the main issue is to convince people to attest their name, as for explaining what to do to partecipate, this is all what you can find: Add the Draw Airdrop bot from the Bot Store inside your Byteball wallet and follow the instructions. Good luck! 3. Such a pity that there are no instructions anywhere - so indeed you really need luck, but not to win, just to partecipate. All what I could do in my wallet is to open the chat of that bot. Having zero instructions to follow I've introduced in the chat my wallet address and the only result is that an error mistake has popped up An exception occurred: Error: [$parse:syntax] Syntax Error: Token ']' is unexpected, expecting [)] at column 47 of the expression etc etc. ...after which the wallet has crashed. 4. Now, every time I start Draw Airdrop bot I'm immediately getting the same mistake and the wallet crashes. No way to use that bot any more. I must say I'm impressed. On top of that I see that people are already exploiting the rules in a disgusting way. Who is the genius who has designed this stuff?
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tarmo888
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December 14, 2018, 02:23:39 AM |
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1. This link to the page which explains the new distribution is quite hidden - not on OP, not on Website, how are people supposed to find it? https://medium.com/byteball/weekly-draw-for-the-byteball-community-f464ae731c882, On this page the main issue is to convince people to attest their name, as for explaining what to do to partecipate, this is all what you can find: Add the Draw Airdrop bot from the Bot Store inside your Byteball wallet and follow the instructions. Good luck! 3. Such a pity that there are no instructions anywhere - so indeed you really need luck, but not to win, just to partecipate. All what I could do in my wallet is to open the chat of that bot. Having zero instructions to follow I've introduced in the chat my wallet address and the only result is that an error mistake has popped up An exception occurred: Error: [$parse:syntax] Syntax Error: Token ']' is unexpected, expecting [)] at column 47 of the expression etc etc. ...after which the wallet has crashed. 4. Now, every time I start Draw Airdrop bot I'm immediately getting the same mistake and the wallet crashes. No way to use that bot any more. I must say I'm impressed. On top of that I see that people are already exploiting the rules in a disgusting way. Who is the genius who has designed this stuff? Update to latest wallet version v2.6.0
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tarmo888
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December 14, 2018, 02:35:11 AM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. It doesn't really matter if that is technically cheating or not, morally it is and given the fact that such exploits are possible the team should immediately address this issue and avoid such exploits being possible or postpone the lottery and change the rules so as to guarantee it to be fair. Or else just lose another piece of community, which I suspect is NOT the purpose of this initiative. All the address that I checked via https://byteball.co/ and https://explorer.byteball.org/ show that these are unique attestations (user_id is a hash of firstname, lastname, birthday, country). So it is not 100% sure if it's 1 person, it could also be group of people who have made it their goal to have as many attested addresses taking part of the draw. What is funny for me is that when it would have happen with anonymous addresses then we couldn't even see that something is out of place, but thanks to real-name-attestation, we can see from explorer that these are all different people, but funded with 10GB by same person. Hopefully, if they win (would be epic if they don't), they also spread the winning amounts to all the people who participated in it by signing up with their attested wallet. If they don't, then it's more clear if it was one person with lot of stolen identities. But then again, maybe this one person keeps the bytes while rewarding the participants with fiat currency, we can't really tell.
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backdown00
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 12
Merit: 1
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December 14, 2018, 03:37:32 AM |
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@tonych * Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB and additionally 0.1 point for each GB above that.
Please, this rule is just perfect for fraud. Here for instance you can see someone using 36 times in a row the "Real-name attest" for approving his in 10 GB chunks splitted Byteballs, to get the full 1 point for every of his 360 GB. He was not even bothering changing the Referral-code. I am sure there is even a lot more people exploiting this "Real-name attestation", it shouldnt be that difficult to get 36 ID copies or people sitting infront of the Screen to get it.
You should remove these extra Points for Real-name attestation to prevent such kind of fraud.
FFFEUM4LPWXKOWJEKWHFUPPA4JYBLEQF 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0 BOX2SYHUCNCSKYAW2U5U5JMUVUGNRUD6 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0 LDQMFCCH33IYH7KKT56BT4N4LJ6XFQ5W 10.00723691 10.000723691 1 zuxhu3neub 0 BQY2RSSSVBLC2TIRXST2ZFA3GZLCNE3H 10.000372213 10.0000372213 1 zuxhu3neub 0 OISO2U2STVHWNYEJ4ZZQPWUZ7VUFW63C 10.600081238 10.0600081238 1 0 2MQOYDR75CUSPQ72EKKDB22FBD5U63YF 10.000021916 10.0000021916 1 zuxhu3neub 0 5OSCUJHZJEU2KQEOMI3FCLLEEHWHYCLR 10.000067491 10.0000067491 1 zuxhu3neub 0 MSLI6F4CWYTA7ZRULF7FPKIBYEKJWIC3 10.000461679 10.0000461679 1 zuxhu3neub 0 Q2L3ZLHKD6TRKYXDUXK32ZTO5WCBLNAL 10.000999412 10.0000999412 1 zuxhu3neub 0 Z7KW6VB2XNTJGDH6UKIFSPIKMILDQBPL 10.000138738 10.0000138738 1 zuxhu3neub 0 5ZJQJ7LRSOPSAK52D6YMMK4JDEXR6UTF 10.000000327 10.0000000327 1 zuxhu3neub 0 5KSJJYB7GW7CJI434O7TXF4M2E3IBA7V 10.00002257 10.000002257 1 zuxhu3neub 0 BV4WNRJ7WG3KX4YLVBCZ6CTFGFBCBA4Z 10.000099412 10.0000099412 1 zuxhu3neub 0 VW33NX7XQG4AVGZ3NKMQXZIR37JXVANW 10.000605619 10.0000605619 1 zuxhu3neub 10.0006710858 CKTAQWL3GDUS5N77EABKBIF4CDMCJWVR 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0 T2RMKXAYQ7QFINHHDPJAXIDQA4SA7MHE 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0 3ZQUF3UUGDM6E6A7NDDY7PVKMG6BVM2W 10.000012793 10.0000012793 1 zuxhu3neub 0 YKCU2UMNI4ZEPEXYI4F26NDSRAPKJEVK 10.000099412 10.0000099412 1 zuxhu3neub 0 ZJXIZ5TDNVFDJLGFV7K5REGB7VX4OO5N 10.001746225 10.0001746225 1 zuxhu3neub 0 F26HYDKUQD7VW7GVUHSEKFNDYE4FL4QN 10.001982754 10.0001982754 1 zuxhu3neub 0 3YVVX7EKRA25FPQX6YQMGYH5OVWZNAQV 10.000334423 10.0000334423 1 zuxhu3neub 0 35P6KN2IERU4QPKALKDP3XYP23IV2QWU 10.000782031 10.0000782031 1 zuxhu3neub 0 XKPB5ITUOWYOBO76BRGG45KWRKK4GWJW 10.004515224 10.0004515224 1 zuxhu3neub 0 AUYUXYE2ROH5YKMIZHZFUHEMPG7ZJSZH 10.000399412 10.0000399412 1 zuxhu3neub 0 PSAKXFVVWEEK3HIJHLO5NMVVZBIR5WPO 10.009820204 10.0009820204 1 zuxhu3neub 0 IM6UFO37NV2BUOUND46KHEA67TZMSHZ6 10.006709442 10.0006709442 1 zuxhu3neub 0 NBXC2GSJVWWZHOQPLHDZWHXCSYCBH7RO 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0 QF3QHJBAJ3A5PULSXFC33ZV2DEFODTOD 10.007655411 10.0007655411 1 zuxhu3neub 0 XZKLCBJKP7XNR7W5YWLN3VIMDD7T7QEB 10.001513067 10.0001513067 1 zuxhu3neub 0 ITRMHFEQ5OECPB2TGIIHKCFOK6XIUF64 10.000150341 10.0000150341 1 zuxhu3neub 0 N2HNJFGLBMKIUN4AYDRQKQ4GINZIIT3G 10.001682892 10.0001682892 1 zuxhu3neub 0 XLS5GFSD6M7IGGHW5VLRX32O6MLMB3RN 10.002074975 10.0002074975 1 zuxhu3neub 0 GMMIVEVWFLHBOYBC6X3DST3VUSNEMRO3 10.002631504 10.0002631504 1 zuxhu3neub 0 AO6JIM3U4MDMRO66G4VMUW3ZLOJ4UTYB 10.008745921 10.0008745921 1 zuxhu3neub 0 MAGTHIXKL7QYAHHSGGONAKMVKLBA7U3U 10.000876321 10.0000876321 1 zuxhu3neub 0 MVWFC2LQZ5RVWPWUGDLUXQPBQ3AQKWVV 10 10 1 zuxhu3neub 0
nice research. i really like the idea 'giving byteball to byteball holder' and this idea now is nice too. i tried real name attestation a few month ago, 2 times, but it failt. today i tried it again and now i get it done.
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altcoinb
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December 14, 2018, 04:41:16 AM |
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How i can check the hash of attestation in explorer.byteball.org?
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tarmo888
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December 14, 2018, 04:49:18 AM |
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How i can check the hash of attestation in explorer.byteball.org? It's easier to find the attestations with https://byteball.co/ because it shows every attestor who has attested that address (just go to each address profile page and click Attestations tab). Difficult to do that with https://explorer.byteball.org/ if you do not know the Unit ID that attested them, explorer.byteball.org is good for looking up what financial transactions this address has done, byteball.co doesn't show financial transactions. You can't check what name is behind that hash without them sharing their private profile to your bot, but if the hash is unique then it means that different firstname/lastname/birthday/country was used to create that hash.
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cybterpunk
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December 14, 2018, 09:30:42 AM |
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it's a good Project
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CryptoRobert
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December 14, 2018, 09:46:55 AM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. It doesn't really matter if that is technically cheating or not, morally it is and given the fact that such exploits are possible the team should immediately address this issue and avoid such exploits being possible or postpone the lottery and change the rules so as to guarantee it to be fair. Or else just lose another piece of community, which I suspect is NOT the purpose of this initiative. All the address that I checked via https://byteball.co/ and https://explorer.byteball.org/ show that these are unique attestations (user_id is a hash of firstname, lastname, birthday, country). So it is not 100% sure if it's 1 person, it could also be group of people who have made it their goal to have as many attested addresses taking part of the draw. What is funny for me is that when it would have happen with anonymous addresses then we couldn't even see that something is out of place, but thanks to real-name-attestation, we can see from explorer that these are all different people, but funded with 10GB by same person. Hopefully, if they win (would be epic if they don't), they also spread the winning amounts to all the people who participated in it by signing up with their attested wallet. If they don't, then it's more clear if it was one person with lot of stolen identities. But then again, maybe this one person keeps the bytes while rewarding the participants with fiat currency, we can't really tell. This makes even more clear what's the game here: someone has likely just used the IDs of all family members, friends and neighbours first to carve out of the system some money with the referral for attestation process and now for winning the lottery. This has probably happened in some poor country where people would do anything to get some money going through an attestation process they will receive a few bucks for even though they possibly know nothing about crypto. My guess is that it is 99% sure it's 1 single person, who is in control of all those wallets associated to people who likely know nothing about crypto and who have been just used by him for the attestation. If the team goes along with this situation and ends up rewarding this scammer with hundreds of GB they will not gain any adoption to the network, trust me, on the contrary, people may just leave in disgust. Especially as the scam has been exposed BEFORE it actually gets rewarded and so if the team choses to nevertheless reward it would end up endorsing such a scammish behavior.
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tonych (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 965
Merit: 1033
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December 14, 2018, 10:16:04 AM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent.
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Simplicity is beauty
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CryptoRobert
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December 14, 2018, 10:49:41 AM Last edit: December 14, 2018, 11:00:43 AM by CryptoRobert Merited by mysacrifice (1), cryptomato (1) |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent. It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO. Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game.
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boomboom
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December 14, 2018, 11:34:16 AM |
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These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent.
The lottery could just be morphed into a weekly airdrop based on BB holdings, no funny business with attestation friends, everybody gets a small pay out every week, if your balance increases you get slightly more next week, if it decreases slightly less.
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tonych (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 965
Merit: 1033
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December 14, 2018, 11:57:42 AM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent. It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO. Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game. Those addresses are excluded from the draw. Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse.
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Simplicity is beauty
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CryptoRobert
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December 14, 2018, 12:34:52 PM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent. It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO. Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game. Those addresses are excluded from the draw. Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse. Well done! It was crucial to take immediate action so as not to jeopardize the whole operation and the team's image of integrity. Even if some in the community may disagree with some aspects of the distribution , marketing or whatever, nobody with a working mind would doubt the full honesty and integrity of Byteball's team, and it's essential that this well deserved trust doesn't get spoiled in the slightest.
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bittybox
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 71
Merit: 2
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December 14, 2018, 12:52:10 PM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent. It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO. Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game. Those addresses are excluded from the draw. Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse. I see two fundamental problems: 1. So people find other ways to exploit the real-name attestation without causing attentation. 2. You will have to act like a dictator (centralization) deciding yourself which address are abusive and which one not.
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bobq
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December 14, 2018, 01:51:46 PM |
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Good research! Well imo this is cheating, the "real-name attestation" rule should not be abused by 1 person to create over 100X "real-name attestations" to get a significant advantage on the lottery. Someone should really check the validity of his "real-name attestations" which is obviously fraud. Anyway the "real-name attestation" rule is somehow designed to abuse it, should be deactivated as soon as possible and replaced by something else if needed. These attestations are valid. But looks like someone has a huge network of "friends" who are ready to sell their identities for a few bucks. Every distribution method will be abused to some extent. It was abused "to some extent" until it was just about the few bucks of the attestation, but now that it extends to the lottery worth GBs for thousands of $ the abuse is reaching a too high and not any more acceptable extent IMHO. Moreover, to accept this form of abusive behavior would surely encourage others to do the same. Now that it has been exposed, everyone knows exactly how to do that. And many would copy this trick. Do you really want this to happen? After a few draws you would end up with just the abusers taking part to the game. Those addresses are excluded from the draw. Same about a few more addresses with obvious signs of abuse. I see two fundamental problems: 1. So people find other ways to exploit the real-name attestation without causing attentation. 2. You will have to act like a dictator (centralization) deciding yourself which address are abusive and which one not. 1. At least it will be harder for them. If your logic would be applied in society we should abolish the police and the judicial system all together since smart thieves may find anyway a way to steal and rob without being caught. Well, if you like that then go to an empty island and create your ideal society where even the most stupid thieves will have the right to steal to others. 2. I have some news for you: Byteball has started as a 100% centralised network where Tony had all the bytes and all the balls and he has been distributing them for a year now in the way which he thinks best to achieve max decentralisation. Not all choices may have been the best ones but they have honestly tried to be the best ones. So all the bytes which still have to be distributed are still centralised in Tony's hands by definition, there is no surprise in that. As for the reference to "dictator", all I can say is that you seem to have a quite confused interpretation of reality. So we are 1 hour after the first Draw Airdrop and I have found that points have been manipulated.
Bad formulation. Possibly the team has instead tried to FIX the manipolations done by those who have tried to abuse the system. And we can only be greatful for that. Unless, of course, we are the abusers.
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tonych (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 965
Merit: 1033
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December 14, 2018, 02:26:49 PM |
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The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice): * Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB. * Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance. * 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw. * 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw. The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses. As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced. The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom.
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Simplicity is beauty
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bobq
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December 14, 2018, 03:18:15 PM |
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The rules for the next draw (@bittybox you were first to notice): * Real-name attested addresses get 1 point per GB of balance up to 10 GB, plus 0.1 point for each GB between 10 GB and 1000 GB, plus 0.01 point for each GB above 1000 GB. * Unattested addresses get 0.01 point per GB of balance. * 0.1 point is awarded for each GB of balance increase since the previous draw. * 0.2 point is deducted for each GB of balance decrease since the previous draw. The change introduces 0.01 coefficient for unattested addresses and very large attested addresses. As a result, the weight of whales is further reduced. The page http://draw.byteball.org/ now displays whale dominance % at the bottom. Also the partecipation of privacy-concerned community members will be further reduced. Everyone with just a few Gigabytes or even tens of Gibabytes in their wallet and who has privacy concerns and doesn't want to attest their names will have close to zero motivation to play at this game with the 0.01 parameter applied to them. They'd need 100 GB to match the chances of an attested member with just 1 Gb, not really worth any hassle for thise below 1Gb. Of course it costs close to no effort to take part to such a draw even with close to zero chances to win, but motivation to increase one's stake to get the 0.1 point increase at these conditions will be unexistent for the unattested. I understand that the perfect solution doesn't exist, but in the end the real question is: will this solution effectively enlarge the user base more than it will upset privacy-concerned members?
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