Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[sickpig]

not quite, IMHO. if HashFast will sell a significant amount of miners at a competitive price obviously difficulty will increase faster than expected, so our time to ROI will become longer, no?

I see no difference between a competitors effect on ROI vs the effect of hashing from KNCminer boxes that come online after yor receive yours.

sorry maybe I'm slow, but you're saying that as long as KnC will deploy faster than HashFast there will be no difference on KnC 's customers ROI ?

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[Bitcoinorama]

not quite, IMHO. if HashFast will sell a significant amount of miners at a competitive price obviously difficulty will increase faster than expected, so our time to ROI will become longer, no?

I see no difference between a competitors effect on ROI vs the effect of hashing from KNCminer boxes that come online after yor receive yours.

sorry maybe I'm slow, but you're saying that as long as KnC will deploy faster than HashFast there will be no difference on KnC 's customers ROI ?

No, he means competing companies are bound to appear, as are new buyers of the technology they produce, that is inevitable, as it is that KnC will also gain new custom. It makes no difference to you as to which competitor the next guy goes to, as that is your competition regardless of whether they purchase from KnC, or another competitor...

[timmmers]

Maybe in the near future the variety of competitors will begin to work in our favour and produce some price competition.

[sickpig]

No, he means competing companies are bound to appear, as are new buyers of the technology they produce, that is inevitable, as it is that KnC will also gain new custom. It makes no difference to you as to which competitor the next guy goes to, as that is your competition regardless of whether they purchase from KnC, or another competitor...

So I was slow
got it thanks

[Bitcoinorama]

No, he means competing companies are bound to appear, as are new buyers of the technology they produce, that is inevitable, as it is that KnC will also gain new custom. It makes no difference to you as to which competitor the next guy goes to, as that is your competition regardless of whether they purchase from KnC, or another competitor...

So I was slow
got it thanks

No worries bro

[erschiessen]

Glad I proscrastinated on making a KnC hosting decision, FWIW.

[Bitcoinorama]

Glad I proscrastinated on making a KnC hosting decision, FWIW.

Depends on how much you value your downtime I guess?

They have a vote on their homepage for those wishing to see a mercury hosting package...

[Ytterbium]

A single retarget never changes by more than a factor of 4 as a stop mechanism to prevent large changes in difficulty (except for in a special case that only applies on testnet).

The code that enforces this is here;

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/d62a1947be5350ed60066ccacc7aba43bbdf48fb/src/main.cpp#L875

However the rate and the proportionate share of reward of the total 2016 blocks is required to be solved in between each difficulty retarget will be affected by a sudden increase in network hashrate;

That's good to know!  However, if the goes up by, say, 8x right at the start of a new difficulty, the next retarget may be 4x, but it will only take one week to get to the next difficulty after that for a full diff increase in only 1.5 weeks, not 4!

[sickpig]

No, he means competing companies are bound to appear, as are new buyers of the technology they produce, that is inevitable, as it is that KnC will also gain new custom. It makes no difference to you as to which competitor the next guy goes to, as that is your competition regardless of whether they purchase from KnC, or another competitor...

So I was slow
got it thanks

as I already said I agree, but still there's something that I can't grasp

let's say that between now (t0) and t1 there will be 10 new ASIC makers, each will contribute to the net hash rate by the same amount.

So every new ASIC miner will provide 10% of the of the hashing power added in the t0-t1 period.

Suddenly a new player came along, with a "time to deploy" that seems much lower than any other players. This new actor will be there with its new miners just a few moments after t1. let's say a month. it is said that this new player will add almost 3 times the hashing power of each of the previous ten actors. its miners will have competitive prices.

Unless I'm completely nuts it seems to me that I will take longer to get my ROI due to the presence of this new player, am I wrong?

Sure, Uniquify could be approached by other people rather than Simon and John, but from what I can see this seem a quite unique (no pun intended) combination of talent/knowledge no ?

[Anenome5]

Unless I'm completely nuts it seems to me that I will take longer to get my ROI due to the presence of this new player, am I wrong?

Not necessarily, since our return calculations include difficulty increases which assume others will be adding power to the network to make up those future increases after KNC ships. If others didn't ship, or existing network power went offline, we'd actually make a whole lot more.

[Transam808]

Has anyone seen the new update today with the hosting plans?  Suuuuuppper expensive.  Unless we can hope to see a serious price jump it wouldn't make any sort of sense to host there unless you were a bitcoin millionaire bum?

Expensive? Well Just reasonable as the basic cost, for 25 US cents per kWh, 432 kWh at most per month, in Saturn case. I think it is sensible. You can count yourself as the people look after your avatar, isn't it?

Wow, 25 cents per kWh. That's some expensive power they got there. When difficulty pushes even these against the profitability wall they will have to be relocated to some place where power costs are at or below $0.10 kWh

I wish power was only .25 per kWh here, Big island Hawaii here, and it is .43 kWh, luckily I have went solar my self, and when I did I over sized my system, so right now I I have about 100-200 extra kWh I produce each mouth witch well help, might have to add a few more solar panels

[Slartybardfast]

If a Saturn uses around 432Kw a month then here in the UK that would be over £100 per month on leccy alone. So there hosting solution does not seem that bad to me. So for around $50 per month you have the Knc team looking after your precious miner. I am very temped to pull the trigger on the hosting solution.BTC

[Loredo]

Unless I'm completely nuts it seems to me that I will take longer to get my ROI due to the presence of this new player, am I wrong?

Of course that's true.  Absent the new player, you were (in your hypothetical) 10% of the network, or 360 BTC per day. 

With the new player, you are 10% of 25% = 2.5% of the network = 90 BTC per day. 

The point is, your realized (not forecast; as another post implied, you "should have" seen the new entry coming in your calculations ex ante) return depends only on the proportion your hash rate, no matter how big or small that is, bears to the hash rate of the total network. 

[Phoenix1969]

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past. Your ability to mine for profit will depend on your willingness to re-invest in bigger, better, faster, and MORE EFFICIENT machines as they become available. Choose wisely Grasshopper
 

[Bitcoinorama]

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past.
 

And of course there is the luxury within some confidence to predict with reasonable estimation as, and when, unknown entities become known and reveal their offerings, as to what impact to difficulty they may have, and over what period until they are cost effective with respect to energy pricing, if the BTC value were to hypothetically remain constant.

The greatest unknown is the future BTC price and any fluctuation as, and when, along the way...

[AFox]

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange

None of the calculators, take in factor the direct loses due to Internet connexion problems or pool problems ...

[Anenome5]

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange

None of the calculators, take in factor the direct loses due to Internet connexion problems or pool problems ...

Not so; at least one of them has an up-time field.

[Phoenix1969]

Well, I guess my real point was, the forecast albeit somewhat unknown, is not as dominantly  doomy & gloomy as most seem to think; I like that.

[huanix]

Please forgive me if this question has been answered previously:

Will KnCMiners be reconfigurable to mine in a pool of our choosing? I read somewhere (kncminer.com?) that we would be asked for configuration information before shipping so that the unit would arrive ready to mine - is that configuration modifiable?

What is the interface for the miner? is it  a web interface? Is the shell accessible to the end user?

There is some speculation on reddit that the KnCminers will only be capable of solo mining. I find that unlikely, but it would be great to get some accurate information.

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1j6xke

[Bitcoinorama]

Please forgive me if this question has been answered previously:

Will KnCMiners be reconfigurable to mine in a pool of our choosing? I read somewhere (kncminer.com?) that we would be asked for configuration information before shipping so that the unit would arrive ready to mine - is that configuration modifiable?

What is the interface for the miner? is it  a web interface? Is the shell accessible to the end user?

There is some speculation on reddit that the KnCminers will only be capable of solo mining. I find that unlikely, but it would be great to get some accurate information.

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/1j6xke

Ignore Reddit, you can obviously pool mine. KnC will have their own pool, with a 2% fee, although I don't believe it's open to anyone beyond those committing to having their Saturns and Jupiters hosted at KnC data centres. Aside from that you should be able to configure your device to pool with whoever as they did with Mars at the open day. It's a web GUI. The pre config is set for product testing prior to shipping and so you can plug and play once received. You can change however you see fit subsequent...