Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[timmmers]

Look on the bright side. If KnC are late, all that hashpower won't go online and difficulty won't rise as fast as we fear. 

[1713564878]

1713564878

[1713564878]

1713564878

[HyperMega]

On a serious note though; what's the latest on KNC's progress?
Does the October shipping date seem likely?

We have no reason to believe they won't hit their ship-date at this point. The only evidence we have that they will is their claim that they are on time with everything so far.

Yes that is true, but for that kind of project they are really quiet about their project schedule. (Yes, I know: "The competitors!" )

You seem pretty smart.   Can you tell me what possibly a competitor could do by knowing that you have finished your tape out?   How would that help them do anything?   Or that you have populated your board and are testing?   What would that information do for a competitor?   Would it help them get their design done faster?   Would it help them test their design?   Would it help them move up in the line at the foundry?
"competitors":  Everytime I read that I think "LIARS".  "BULLSHITTERS"

No, to be honest I have absolutely no idea how announcing the completion of concrete milestones including dates should help any competitor, when you are on track for September delivery.

They must have a internal project plan with dates for all the major milestones (there are a lot of them), which finally ends with delivery to customers end of September, which is not that far away.

From my point of view, being more transparent here could only be beneficial for KnC with respect to their reputation and a kind of "shock and awe" for any competitor.
Some of them would maybe stop development completely, because they will realize that they are too late in game and that nobody will buy their products when KnC already has 28nm chips on the market for several months. But this would only be valid, if you have an realistic plan and if you are 100% on track.

They won't publish any internal timeline because as soon as they had miss a "milestone" people would get very nervous (BFL docet)

Yes, that might be true. If you have a look at the "BFL ASIC status" blog at the BFL forum, Josh tried to be really transparent at the beginning of their ASIC project. Many of their problems were not caused by BFL directly. They were also in the hands of 3rd parties, which missed the targets and consults BFL probably not optimal.

So if KnC are already aware of one or more missed internal milestones (caused by themselves or 3rd parties), it would not be ok to claim that they are on track for September delivery. No offence, but in this case such a statement would be a lie, because there is absolute no margin in a realistic project schedule for September delivery, which would allow any time delay caused by a missed milestone  (as shown above).

So one should assume, being on track for September delivery means all KnC internal milestones reached in time so far. Why not announce them in this case?

I guess ASIC companies prefer to stay silent or lie a la BFL when pre-order money is being spent for good and refunds could become a big problem because of missed deadlines.

Let's remember that all the ASIC projects developed or in development (Avalon, BFL, KnC...) are HUGE projects managed by tiny companies. Many delays (most of them I'd say) are caused by 3rd parties involved in the process, being very transparent with all the milestones is the best from a customer/investor point of view, but tricky for the ASIC manufacturers. If there is no official "missed deadline" wishful thinkers will be happy and won't complain while dream about their money printing machines. The less explanations you give, the safer you are from a PR point of view I guess.

This only works in the BitCoin ASIC business with thousands of small unaware pre-order investors.
The day by day business in a normal ASIC start-up company developing a product financed by one big venture capitalist looks completely different. This investor sits in your neck all the time and wants to know what exactly you did day by day hour by hour and when he will make money with the product. And you have to answer him, otherwise he will go immediately away with his money.

[Rampion]

On a serious note though; what's the latest on KNC's progress?
Does the October shipping date seem likely?

We have no reason to believe they won't hit their ship-date at this point. The only evidence we have that they will is their claim that they are on time with everything so far.

Yes that is true, but for that kind of project they are really quiet about their project schedule. (Yes, I know: "The competitors!" )

You seem pretty smart.   Can you tell me what possibly a competitor could do by knowing that you have finished your tape out?   How would that help them do anything?   Or that you have populated your board and are testing?   What would that information do for a competitor?   Would it help them get their design done faster?   Would it help them test their design?   Would it help them move up in the line at the foundry?
"competitors":  Everytime I read that I think "LIARS".  "BULLSHITTERS"

No, to be honest I have absolutely no idea how announcing the completion of concrete milestones including dates should help any competitor, when you are on track for September delivery.

They must have a internal project plan with dates for all the major milestones (there are a lot of them), which finally ends with delivery to customers end of September, which is not that far away.

From my point of view, being more transparent here could only be beneficial for KnC with respect to their reputation and a kind of "shock and awe" for any competitor.
Some of them would maybe stop development completely, because they will realize that they are too late in game and that nobody will buy their products when KnC already has 28nm chips on the market for several months. But this would only be valid, if you have an realistic plan and if you are 100% on track.

They won't publish any internal timeline because as soon as they had miss a "milestone" people would get very nervous (BFL docet)

Yes, that might be true. If you have a look at the "BFL ASIC status" blog at the BFL forum, Josh tried to be really transparent at the beginning of their ASIC project. Many of their problems were not caused by BFL directly. They were also in the hands of 3rd parties, which missed the targets and consults BFL probably not optimal.

So if KnC are already aware of one or more missed internal milestones (caused by themselves or 3rd parties), it would not be ok to claim that they are on track for September delivery. No offence, but in this case such a statement would be a lie, because there is absolute no margin in a realistic project schedule for September delivery, which would allow any time delay caused by a missed milestone  (as shown above).

So one should assume, being on track for September delivery means all KnC internal milestones reached in time so far. Why not announce them in this case?

I guess ASIC companies prefer to stay silent or lie a la BFL when pre-order money is being spent for good and refunds could become a big problem because of missed deadlines.

Let's remember that all the ASIC projects developed or in development (Avalon, BFL, KnC...) are HUGE projects managed by tiny companies. Many delays (most of them I'd say) are caused by 3rd parties involved in the process, being very transparent with all the milestones is the best from a customer/investor point of view, but tricky for the ASIC manufacturers. If there is no official "missed deadline" wishful thinkers will be happy and won't complain while dream about their money printing machines. The less explanations you give, the safer you are from a PR point of view I guess.

This only works in the BitCoin ASIC business with thousands of small unaware pre-order investors.
The day by day business in a normal ASIC start-up company developing a product financed by one big venture capitalist looks completely different. This investor sits in your neck all the time and wants to know what exactly you did day by day hour by hour and when he will make money with the product. And you have to answer him, otherwise he will go immediately away with his money.

I agree. And this is the Bitcoin ASIC business...

[Gyrsur]

^^agree also but refund should be possible everytime.

[CYPER]

I was wondering when do swedish companies have to submit their accounts to the tax man?
I'm asking because one can order such accounts and probably see some useful information such as money received by the business.

Or I've been watching too many detective shows?

[Ghostofkobra]

Once every year, so i dont think you will see anything in, maybe a year (takes a while to publish the data).

You will be able to see it here: http://www.allabolag.se/5569319725/KnCMiner_AB

Best
/GoK

[CYPER]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

[Ytterbium]

This only works in the BitCoin ASIC business with thousands of small unaware pre-order investors.
The day by day business in a normal ASIC start-up company developing a product financed by one big venture capitalist looks completely different. This investor sits in your neck all the time and wants to know what exactly you did day by day hour by hour and when he will make money with the product. And you have to answer him, otherwise he will go immediately away with his money.

Well, it depends. The chip may not be nearly as time-sensitive in nature as bitcoin ASICs are right now. You may have a finite deadline, and if you go past it you might lose a lot of money due to idle resources waiting on a critical path, whatever. But things can be adjusted and schedules can be changed.

With Bitcoin ASICs you're basically dead if you're a month late this year. Last year, it was completely different.

At the same time, though we need to remeber: Designing an ASIC isn't that difficult.  People build ASICs all the time for various purposes, and it usually works out OK.  BFL, Avalon and other companies were building their first ever ASIC product. And in edition building and selling devices direct to consumers.

People who have experience doing these kinds of things, well, have experience doing these kinds of things.  It shouldn't be nearly as difficult like a company like ORSoC, or Uniquify to build chips and have them work properly the first time.

[DyslexicZombei]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

WHOA red flag
We are NOT aware of ANY OTHER site than kncminer.com  those are most likely a scam!

Hi Phoenix1969,

I saw that you're in Hawaii & you have a few KnCs on order. Glad to see I'm not the only one in Hawaii that sees a BTC groundswell starting to build. I'm still debating between Bitfury or KnC for my next order.

Too bad there aren't more Hawaii folks doing mining; we could make our own Hawaii pool. 

[canth]

Look on the bright side. If KnC are late, all that hashpower won't go online and difficulty won't rise as fast as we fear. 

Heh. I'm sure AM, ActiveMiner, BFL, etc will send Sam and Andreas Xmas cards if they give the gift of not delivering on time.

[ffernandex]

I guess ASIC companies prefer to stay silent or lie a la BFL when pre-order money is being spent for good and refunds could become a big problem because of missed deadlines.

Let's remember that all the ASIC projects developed or in development (Avalon, BFL, KnC...) are HUGE projects managed by tiny companies. Many delays (most of them I'd say) are caused by 3rd parties involved in the process, being very transparent with all the milestones is the best from a customer/investor point of view, but tricky for the ASIC manufacturers. If there is no official "missed deadline" wishful thinkers will be happy and won't complain while dream about their money printing machines. The less explanations you give, the safer you are from a PR point of view I guess.

That's the problem when the lines are kinda blurred between being a customer or an investor. An investor should have full access and disclosure to the internal milestones, but an investor cannot request a "refund". Consumers can request a refund, but then they are kept blind of the internal progress of the project.

[Transam808]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

WHOA red flag
We are NOT aware of ANY OTHER site than kncminer.com  those are most likely a scam!

Hi Phoenix1969,

I saw that you're in Hawaii & you have a few KnCs on order. Glad to see I'm not the only one in Hawaii that sees a BTC groundswell starting to build. I'm still debating between Bitfury or KnC for my next order.

Too bad there aren't more Hawaii folks doing mining; we could make our own Hawaii pool. 

Im in Hawaii my self.  Big island.   Bad thing about here is the cost of electric being .43 on the big island.  Think its cheaper on the other islands?   I have 30 solar panels on my roof to help cover the cost.  And might have to add a few more.    I'm surprised i haven't seen many other talk about that to kill the cost of electric.  As of right now my system is actually banking about 200 Kwh a month.  Since i over sized mine a bit.

[Phoenix1969]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

WHOA red flag
We are NOT aware of ANY OTHER site than kncminer.com  those are most likely a scam!

Hi Phoenix1969,

I saw that you're in Hawaii & you have a few KnCs on order. Glad to see I'm not the only one in Hawaii that sees a BTC groundswell starting to build. I'm still debating between Bitfury or KnC for my next order.

Too bad there aren't more Hawaii folks doing mining; we could make our own Hawaii pool.  

Aloha yeah, not many miners here...not suprising considering Helco rates on Electric... Which is also why a pool would not be too profitable here...I have too many orders "pending delivery" to think of more at the moment, but I'm a shopper as well. Come Mid-October, If all is as projected I'll be making decisions then, as for now... Its KNC all the way. I really Think Marcus will Blow the Competition Out of the water with Gen2, we shall see.
The two biggest things I look at  are GH/$, and GH/watt, followed by delivery estimates, which can be tricky, hehe

BTW...  1 jupiter = 1 kw/hr  x 24hrs in a day = 24kw/hrs x 30 days is
720Kw/hrs per month, per jupiter x .43(here on B.I.) comes to 309.60 per month per Jupiter.  The point is...  even if your solar system "Banks" 200Kw/hrs a month, it is not quite 1/3rd of the needed power to run a single Jupiter, which is why it will barely cover a Mercury.
 All things considered, I may move to or just set up an office in Mobile, Ala, where electric is still .08, and Sirloin isn't $23/lb(Barring Safeway's GMO Beef) Anything over 3 jupiters would pay for the rent just in electrical cost offset  @ 650/mo for typical office space)

[Transam808]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

WHOA red flag
We are NOT aware of ANY OTHER site than kncminer.com  those are most likely a scam!

Hi Phoenix1969,

I saw that you're in Hawaii & you have a few KnCs on order. Glad to see I'm not the only one in Hawaii that sees a BTC groundswell starting to build. I'm still debating between Bitfury or KnC for my next order.

Too bad there aren't more Hawaii folks doing mining; we could make our own Hawaii pool.  

Aloha yeah, not many miners here...not suprising considering Helco rates on Electric... Which is also why a pool would not be too profitable here...I have too many orders "pending delivery" to think of more at the moment, but I'm a shopper as well. Come Mid-October, If all is as projected I'll be making decisions then, as for now... Its KNC all the way. I really Think Marcus will Blow the Competition Out of the water with Gen2, we shall see.
The two biggest things I look at  are GH/$, and GH/watt, followed by delivery estimates, which can be tricky, hehe

BTW...  1 jupiter = 1 kw/hr  x 24hrs in a day = 24kw/hrs x 30 days is
720Kw/hrs per month, per jupiter x .43(here on B.I.) comes to 309.60 per month per Jupiter.  The point is...  even if you solar system "Banks" 200Kw/hrs a month, it is not quite 1/3rd of the needed power to run a single Jupiter, which is why it will barely cover a Mercury.
 All things considered, I may move to or just set up an office in Mobile, Ala, where electric is still .08.

I know it will not cover the whole cost.  Right now i have an order on a Saturn in.  Been thinking about the upgrade,  though i have not decided  been waiting to see how things play out a bit.  But if the specs stay the same when the devise comes out. "hopefully wattage will go down some" But at the 500w that's 360kwh now if im banking 200 then that leaves me with just 160 at .43  is 68.8  instead of the full 154.8,   but if i go and install 6 more  panels.   that would cover the extra 160KwH,   Witch would cost me roughly $2500  "  This is not exact and I do get this as cost because i am a contractor out here" Probably more like 5-6k if i had a solar installer.   then on top of that 65% of that i would get back  from tax credits the following year.  So even if it was installed by a solar installer would  pay for it self in no time. 

[bitcoinarnold]

KNC Looking rather stale with all the other competitors coming out and eating their power numbers.

[Phoenix1969]

Transam808..B.I. as well, eh?  I'm near Volcano... U?

[yeemartin]

Btw has knc-china.com and kncminer.cn been mentioned before?

So they are targeting the chinese market as well for which they have different bank details for payment:

Account Name: Laurel Financial Network Technology Co., Ltd.
Bank: China Construction Bank
Branch Name: Shanghai Xiangyang Road Branch
Account number: 31001555900050005127

And a skype name too: kncminerchina

WHOA red flag
We are NOT aware of ANY OTHER site than kncminer.com  those are most likely a scam!

Hi Phoenix1969,

I saw that you're in Hawaii & you have a few KnCs on order. Glad to see I'm not the only one in Hawaii that sees a BTC groundswell starting to build. I'm still debating between Bitfury or KnC for my next order.

Too bad there aren't more Hawaii folks doing mining; we could make our own Hawaii pool. 

I'm in Oahu, and hopefully will have an Avalon start mining in a few days. I don't know if I can make ROI on the Avalon, screwed by Bitsyncom, but I'm not gonna sell it, I feel good being a miner. I have been mining with my 5870/6970/7970 for more than two years.

I personally really don't believe KnC can deliver 28nm within 2013. So I didn't order.

[Phoenix1969]

bummer...  I do  
I even bet for them on bitbet...hahaha

[yeemartin]

bummer...  I do   

good luck, bro!

I just put down 1 btc bet on KnC not able to deliver on time, LOL.

[Transam808]

Transam808..B.I. as well, eh?  I'm near Volcano... U?

Im over in Kona my self.