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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26401331 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
Toxic2040
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September 12, 2020, 03:53:33 PM

#dyor
1h



the battle continues in the cloud on the four hour

...is that a hammer in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
4h

#stronghands
Biodom
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September 12, 2020, 04:09:46 PM

Re discussions of selling, then "enjoying new lifestyle".
Everybody's situation is different.
I am in a urban environment with huge RE taxes.
I can survive on, say, 70K a year, but anything less than 100K a year would be a strain, really, with 150K being OK to good (with a couple vacations/year), anything more than that could be used for whatever (investments, etc).

Based on this, $1mil is not really a change in style as you don't really want it to be gone in 7 years, right?
People keep talking about passive income. I have no idea what it means as with current bond yields passive income is something approaching zero.
If you are talking about stock appreciation OR sale of your assets, than it is not a passive income.
I would imagine that in SanFran or NY anything less than 200-250K/year in income is a strain.

Conclusion: I cannot really count on btc being my only money supply until it reaches much, much higher levels, which probably means that I have to work...and work.

P.S. and OT: Dan Morehead (whom I respect as btc investment visionary) thinks that defi will do 100X before btc will do 100X. I have to idea how he came up with this (maybe simply going from lower base).
Unfortunately, it is completely unclear who the main player(s) would be and/or how many (or if it would even work). I took a look and some of those tokens are up 30-100X in the last 6-9 mo.
Entering now without a clue of how it shakes out is kind of idiotic, so a pass for me. Should have thrown a thou on some a few mo ago...oh, well.
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September 12, 2020, 04:14:33 PM

Last of the V8s
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Be a bank


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September 12, 2020, 04:36:50 PM

 Roll Eyes sigh ...
guess I would have, as long as we didn't have to talk
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All good things to those who wait


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September 12, 2020, 05:07:29 PM
Merited by Biodom (1)

Re discussions of selling, then "enjoying new lifestyle".
Everybody's situation is different.
I am in a urban environment with huge RE taxes.
I can survive on, say, 70K a year, but anything less than 100K a year would be a strain, really, with 150K being OK to good (with a couple vacations/year), anything more than that could be used for whatever (investments, etc).

Based on this, $1mil is not really a change in style as you don't really want it to be gone in 7 years, right?
People keep talking about passive income. I have no idea what it means as with current bond yields passive income is something approaching zero.
If you are talking about stock appreciation OR sale of your assets, than it is not a passive income.
I would imagine that in SanFran or NY anything less than 200-250K/year in income is a strain.

Conclusion: I cannot really count on btc being my only money supply until it reaches much, much higher levels, which probably means that I have to work...and work.

P.S. and OT: Dan Morehead (whom I respect as btc investment visionary) thinks that defi will do 100X before btc will do 100X. I have to idea how he came up with this (maybe simply going from lower base).
Unfortunately, it is completely unclear who the main player(s) would be and/or how many (or if it would even work). I took a look and some of those tokens are up 30-100X in the last 6-9 mo.
Entering now without a clue of how it shakes out is kind of idiotic, so a pass for me. Should have thrown a thou on some a few mo ago...oh, well.

Hahaha, we are living on different planets. My yearly expenses are like $7k-8k. If I move to the most expensive sea resort and each evening we are eating at restaurants, visiting events, etc. the expenses would be $12K-15K. That is the change I want for starters. And $1 mil will be enough (if I don't buy expensive house, lambo or yacht) for ... 66 years lol
Biodom
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September 12, 2020, 05:18:50 PM

Re discussions of selling, then "enjoying new lifestyle".
Everybody's situation is different.
I am in a urban environment with huge RE taxes.
I can survive on, say, 70K a year, but anything less than 100K a year would be a strain, really, with 150K being OK to good (with a couple vacations/year), anything more than that could be used for whatever (investments, etc).

Based on this, $1mil is not really a change in style as you don't really want it to be gone in 7 years, right?
People keep talking about passive income. I have no idea what it means as with current bond yields passive income is something approaching zero.
If you are talking about stock appreciation OR sale of your assets, than it is not a passive income.
I would imagine that in SanFran or NY anything less than 200-250K/year in income is a strain.

Conclusion: I cannot really count on btc being my only money supply until it reaches much, much higher levels, which probably means that I have to work...and work.

P.S. and OT: Dan Morehead (whom I respect as btc investment visionary) thinks that defi will do 100X before btc will do 100X. I have to idea how he came up with this (maybe simply going from lower base).
Unfortunately, it is completely unclear who the main player(s) would be and/or how many (or if it would even work). I took a look and some of those tokens are up 30-100X in the last 6-9 mo.
Entering now without a clue of how it shakes out is kind of idiotic, so a pass for me. Should have thrown a thou on some a few mo ago...oh, well.

Hahaha, we are living on different planets. My yearly expenses are like $7k-8k. If I move to the most expensive sea resort and each evening we are eating at restaurants, visiting events, etc. the expenses would be $12K-15K. That is the change I want for starters. And $1 mil will be enough (if I don't buy expensive house, lambo or yacht) for ... 66 years lol

$12-15K/year with lavish lifestyle-amazingly cheap.
I did some research on relocating in retirement-not many choices. In Europe, mostly Portugal and Spain where $50K should be enough, but I would have to learn a new language.
All English speaking countries are expensive, sans Belize, probably, but it is hot in there and i would like to be in a moderate climate.
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September 12, 2020, 05:20:37 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2020, 05:43:49 PM by nullius

Cryptotourist, an NSA OSINT analyst tipped me that the rank-watchers in Meta forgot you.  SwayStar’s rise to Full Member merited mention.  Your earlier rise to Sr. is listed on the front page.

Are you out of the conspiracy to take my money, turn it into 21,000 BTC, and then take over the forum? :-/



I am in a urban environment overcrowded, heavily polluted, crime-ridden, disease-infested anthropoid sewer prone to simultaneous prison-style lockdowns and riots with huge RE taxes.

Move.

I would imagine that in SanFran or NY anything less than 200-250K/year in income is a strain.



The EU tentative regulation that Biodom mentioned, as I understand it, is aimed at tokens issued by corporate actors (libra is explicitly mentioned, and tether would qualify as well).

You are confused.

The article explicitly addressed Bitcoin.

Quote from: Euractiv (2020-09-10)
The long-awaited regulation will address the high volatility of cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin, the most popular of these digital tokens, and the risks posed by systemic ones, like Libra.

The portion that I quoted immediately followed some blather about “a market worth around $350 billion, and spread over more than 6,700 digital currencies”.

The article was at some points unclear about which bureaucratic diktat applied to which type of “cryptocurrency”; but I very well realized that some portions only spoke of “Libra” et al., and I followed the context accordingly.

(The media tend to mangle the facts, anyway.  When I read the article, I cursed at not having the source document available.)

It could simplify things for helpfully ensnare some people - the unbanked unenslaved come to mind.

Why is being “unbanked” supposed to be a bad thing?  It is an Orwellian brainwash-term.

And why could the lives of the bank-free not be improved by Bitcoin instead?



Are you saying you'd risk your money by keeping it in fiat in some bank? The term "money in the bank" is misleading unless the "bank" is your own i.e. Bitcoin.

This.

I could never understand why people keep fiat savings in banks.

I have even seen people post photos of their gold and silver holdings themselves on readily identifiable social media accounts, with faces in the picture (!).  Some people just ain’t so bright.

ftfy

Thanks.  How did I make that typographical error?  I can’t even make the excuse of typing on a “smartphone”.

(I used to advocate privacy by asking people if, given that they have “nothing to hide”, they would be willing to take remote-access cameras and microphones into their bedrooms.  Then, I realized that most people actually do.  Oops.)
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September 12, 2020, 05:45:31 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2020, 06:01:19 PM by JayJuanGee

Ooo look another fun visualiser


https://txstreet.com/v/bch-btc

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hah, pathetic. Can't wait till that bcash shitcoin dies. Yet another split incoming so I'd say it's getting close

Shitcoins never really die completely... so it could be a bit unrealistic to set one's self up to psychologically look forward to such death of any particular shitcoin either completely happening or discontinuing various pumpenings, drama and even sometimes attacks on bitcoin (whether through misinformation, distractions or actual material (such as mining) shenanigans).

@TheVladCostea

Decided to research Bitcoin pr0n and found this gem:

– Couple tries to buy BTC from ATM, stranger approaches them to inform that fees are too high;
– Stranger takes them to their office to sell them BTC in person.
– Boyfriend doesn't have enough money, so he trades GF for 1 BTC.

https://twitter.com/thevladcostea/status/1304756798856011777?s=21




Makes sense.  Of course.
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September 12, 2020, 06:02:55 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)


Shitcoins never really die completely

Get the fuck out of here with your alt coin love in!

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September 12, 2020, 06:10:00 PM
Merited by Torque (1)

Shitcoins never really die completely

Get the fuck out of here with your alt coin love in!

Did you not notice that there are several thousand lingering “coins”, each with a minuscule, illiquid “market cap” which would promptly crash if anybody tried to sell any significant amount on the very few exchanges where that is even possible?

They indeed “never really die completely”.  They are in a persistent vegetative state:  Comacoins.
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September 12, 2020, 06:10:52 PM

I now pronounce you man and wife. You may kiss the bride.
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September 12, 2020, 06:13:41 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)


Shitcoins never really die completely

Get the fuck out of here with your alt coin love in!



+1 WOsMerit

-----

nullius
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September 12, 2020, 06:18:52 PM

I now pronounce you man and wife. You may kiss the bride.

Protip:  Irrational, vituperative drama queens become old maids.
JayJuanGee
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September 12, 2020, 06:20:42 PM


Quote from: Euractiv (2020-09-10)
Cryptocurrency developers should produce a ‘white paper’ with all the relevant information about the issuer, the token or the trading platform “to enable potential buyers to make an informed purchase decision and understand the risks relating to the offering,” the proposal says.

National and European regulators must approve these documents before issuers can start operating.

A faceless Tor user who calls himself “Satoshi Nakamoto” will seek approval from self-entitled bureaucrats before releasing “bitcoin.pdf” and a bunch of source code, because... because.  Everybody is a bank-loving masochist with a regulatory fetish!  Confirmed by strongest science.

Quote
"Because they are tied to national currencies, supporters of ‘stablecoins’ claim they can avoid the bubble-and-burst evolution seen with Bitcoin."

Because they are tied to national currencies which are already digital, they have no fucking point...except pointless redundancy, I guess? They continue to miss the point of Bitcoin's reason for existence in the first place.

Bitcoin is bitcoin. There's no "issuer", there's no backing, it is what it is. You want some? Mine it or buy it.

The EU tentative regulation that Biodom mentioned, as I understand it, is aimed at tokens issued by corporate actors (libra is explicitly mentioned, and tether would qualify as well). My previous post simply states that I personally agree that such corporate entities should be held liable, and any failure to comply with redemption requests immediately should have civil and criminal consequences.

The last thing we need is more fractional reserve scams springing up like mushrooms everywhere.

Requests for immediate redemption of BTC only works if the individual contract with the institutional custodial entity does not exclude the ability to redeem immediately.  Some services are written in such a way that redemption is not part of the arrangement, and there continue to be a decent number of normies who use those kinds of services  (out of convenience, etc) (robinhood, GBTC and likely some other similar services). 

Of course, if anyone is getting exposure to BTC through such custodial services that do not allow immediate redemption, then surely they are more likely buying some sort of voucher rather than actual BTC.

So, in that regard, hopefully investors in BTC are mostly using custodial services that allow them to redeem their BTC at any time, and if they use other kinds of services that do not allow for immediate redemption of BTC, such usage is very limited in nature and ONLY a fraction (perhaps less than 20%) of their actual BTC exposure.
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September 12, 2020, 06:22:40 PM
Last edit: September 12, 2020, 09:25:39 PM by explorer

observing 10450 pop

painting up to 10500 for sure



EDIT:  Or not.  What the fuck do I know.
JayJuanGee
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September 12, 2020, 06:49:43 PM
Merited by Biodom (1)

Re discussions of selling, then "enjoying new lifestyle".
Everybody's situation is different.
I am in a urban environment with huge RE taxes.
I can survive on, say, 70K a year, but anything less than 100K a year would be a strain, really, with 150K being OK to good (with a couple vacations/year), anything more than that could be used for whatever (investments, etc).

Based on this, $1mil is not really a change in style as you don't really want it to be gone in 7 years, right?
People keep talking about passive income. I have no idea what it means as with current bond yields passive income is something approaching zero.
If you are talking about stock appreciation OR sale of your assets, than it is not a passive income.
I would imagine that in SanFran or NY anything less than 200-250K/year in income is a strain.

Conclusion: I cannot really count on btc being my only money supply until it reaches much, much higher levels, which probably means that I have to work...and work.

I know that you and I disagree with what constitutes passive income, but if you believe that the standard of living that you have grown accustom requires a $150k income, then of course, $4million valuation in your BTC portfolio would be the bare minimum for that.


So I would suggest that currently our 200 week moving average of $6,650 would require 601.5BTC in order to reach that $4 million minimum goal.  Of course, either the 200 week moving average could move up in order to cause the minimum required amount of BTC to move down or you could accumulate more BTC in order to reach the goal, and even with those numbers, if the 200 week moving average were to move up 8x in the next 4-6 years like it did in the past 3 years, then you would ONLY need around 75 BTC in order to accomplish the $4million minimum principle valuation.  

Of course, if you have other liquid assets other than BTC, then those would also offset your minimum BTC requirement numbers.  Without knowing your particular circumstances, even achieving a $4million wealth accumulation goal (based on the 200 week moving average) seems potentially achievable, especially with an asset like BTC, and of course, if there is no way in hell that you are going to be able to accumulate 75 BTC, then you may well need a longer time horizon, and even 10 BTC may well be able to achieve such a goal if we are looking at 10 years to 15 years from now.

P.S. and OT: Dan Morehead (whom I respect as btc investment visionary) thinks that defi will do 100X before btc will do 100X. I have to idea how he came up with this (maybe simply going from lower base).
Unfortunately, it is completely unclear who the main player(s) would be and/or how many (or if it would even work). I took a look and some of those tokens are up 30-100X in the last 6-9 mo.
Entering now without a clue of how it shakes out is kind of idiotic, so a pass for me. Should have thrown a thou on some a few mo ago...oh, well.

Seems way the fuck too risky to me and complicated with a lot of possible areas of failure, exit scams through software and intentionally and even ethereum failures.  How much would any of us dare to put into that convoluted knowingly ponzi scheme bullshit to the extent that it is even worth considering in a thread like this?  It's like we know it is a ponzi scheme, but we think that we can get in and out based on some kind of superior knowledge of getting in earlier than other greater fools?  Does not seem like a great investment thesis to me, even though concededly it is going to contribute to some snot-nosed 14-year olds getting rich faster than more prudent and practical investors.

[edited out]

Hahaha, we are living on different planets. My yearly expenses are like $7k-8k. If I move to the most expensive sea resort and each evening we are eating at restaurants, visiting events, etc. the expenses would be $12K-15K. That is the change I want for starters. And $1 mil will be enough (if I don't buy expensive house, lambo or yacht) for ... 66 years lol

You should be able to presume that $1 million of accumulated principle has the ability to produce about $3,333 per month passive income, so the calculations for you, Ivomm would be approximately 1/4 or the calculations that I had done for Biodom, above.  And, like Jimbo mentioned in an earlier post, I would not expect that you have to get your value out of BTC, but instead if you use the 200 week moving average as your estimated amount of BTC that you need to accumulate, then surely your goals should be more achievable than Biodoms in absolute terms.

Of course, not knowing how your particular circumstance in terms of how much of your cashflow you are able to divert into BTC which would be a significant factor, too in terms of considering how realistic it would be to reach your target and how long it might take to reach such target.
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September 12, 2020, 07:04:00 PM

Just found and google translated from german on a national news site:

Quote
EU Commission does not want to ban cryptocurrencies

Despite massive concerns from some euro countries, the EU Commission does not want to ban private crypto currencies like Facebook's Libra from the outset. Vice-Commission President Valdis Dombrovskis said today at the meeting of EU finance ministers in Berlin that his authority wants to proceed “proportionately”.

“Cryptocurrencies offer many opportunities. And we want to make innovation possible through regulation, not prevent it. ”The EU must be open to this innovation.
Strict regulation up to and including prohibition required

Germany, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands had called for tough regulation and, if necessary, bans before the weekend. The German finance minister Olaf Scholz reiterated today that the ministers are “firmly convinced that private-sector cryptocurrencies do not make sense” and “should be banned if necessary”. The issuing of currencies in the euro zone is a matter for the European Central Bank (ECB).

A number of providers are at the start for digital currencies. One of the best-known projects is the Libra cryptocurrency of the US online group Facebook. It promises users to make shopping and transferring money online using Libra as easy as sending a text message.

EDIT: Bullish  Cool

EDIT2: Ban?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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September 12, 2020, 07:08:52 PM
Merited by El duderino_ (2), JimboToronto (1)

Shitcoins never really die completely

Get the fuck out of here with your alt coin love in!

Did you not notice that there are several thousand lingering “coins”, each with a minuscule, illiquid “market cap” which would promptly crash if anybody tried to sell any significant amount on the very few exchanges where that is even possible?

They indeed “never really die completely”.  They are in a persistent vegetative state:  Comacoins.

They reflect the majority of everyone's corporate workplace now: ZombieCorps.

So let's see: bankrupt zombie megacorps who are propped up by the banks and make little to no profit, begin to issue their own corporate-branded digital shit tokens in order to lock the public into their walled-garden of products and services, and also to tack on processing fees, storage fees, and other hidden fees, while behind the scenes also playing arbitrage between the various national fiat currencies and front-running them.

Am I getting close here? Bueller?

I mean, how long until Amazon issues their own private shitcoin? Or Walmartcoin?

The German finance minister Olaf Scholz reiterated today that the ministers are “firmly convinced that private-sector cryptocurrencies do not make sense” and “should be banned if necessary”.

I hate to say it, but he is 1000% correct. They do not make any sense.
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September 12, 2020, 07:14:28 PM

@BTC: Wake me up, when September ends
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September 12, 2020, 07:54:50 PM

I now pronounce you man and wife. You may kiss the bride.

We are not going to do it willingly...


Helrow..? .no homo here  #


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