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Question: Oct. 23 Closing Price:
<$8,000 - 2 (3.1%)
$8,000-$8,500 - 0 (0%)
$8,500-$9,000 - 0 (0%)
$9,000-$9,500 - 0 (0%)
$9,500-$10,000 - 0 (0%)
$10,000-$10,500 - 1 (1.5%)
$10,500-$11,000 - 0 (0%)
$11,000-$11,500 - 3 (4.6%)
$11,500-$12,000 - 5 (7.7%)
$12,000-$12,500 - 16 (24.6%)
$12,500-$13,000 - 12 (18.5%)
$13,000-$13,500 - 7 (10.8%)
$13,500-$14,000 - 5 (7.7%)
>$14,000 - 14 (21.5%)
Total Voters: 65

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 23377390 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (148 posts by 37 users deleted.)
El duderino_
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August 15, 2020, 12:07:28 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

I do understand people are salty for not being on the BTC train, nu f*** they will never be on it unless they outsmart themselves and just buy there first fraction or piece or whatever.... then start reading, learning, continue buying will happen then....

Don’t be salty, just join us, it’s the logical and responsible thing to do!
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August 15, 2020, 12:08:48 PM

Just checking when we will reach 27118, we are not far away

To reach till 11800$ back from high of 20k it took couple of years. So not sure how long to break that 20k and to move towards 27118$ it will take it.

But for sure, if you want the quickest in not time to see that range then just dream about it  Grin


We will be faster at that Nr as you will be at Eeeeuhm let us say 250-300 merits.... these postings will not get you there Tongue
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August 15, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Every drop is counteracted. Loop closes when needed. (*)

Add a bit of FOMO, and the rocket launch shall commence.

Inverted pendulum leaning towards UP. FOMO breaks loop. Price action open-loop unstable --> +Infinity. (*)

If you know where to look, Bitcoin is like buying stocks with inside information.

To the moon and beyond!

HoDL.

* Control engineers will understand.
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August 15, 2020, 01:35:48 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), Icygreen (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

You guys got the 12 word seed thing part wrong.

Short version:
12 words is like 128 bits (2048^12 = 2^132)
24 words is like 256 bits

Long version:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Seed_phrase
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6twuj1/are_12word_seeds_for_bitcoin_private_keys_secure/

There was some nuance to the question that sort of took it in a particular direction.

The discussion started after someone posted a picture of a cool bolt/wingnut/washer mnemonic device.  And the question was how long would it take to put 24 (or 12) words into the right order.

12 vs 24 from the dictionary of 4096 words?  Both quite secure.  But if you had the 12 washers and did not know the order, doable with enough CPU power to run the permutations.  24? Not so much.

So I think we were talking about different parts of the elephant.

Ahh yes.. if anyone has physical access to your bolt and nut, you're probably almost screwed, especially if they have not yet disassembled the device. If they were stupid enough to unlock the nut and spill out the washers randomly, then you have some time to move the coins (assuming that was not your only copy of the seed phrase).

a 24 word seed. on two bolts.

brass washers numbered 1 - 12   using 12 seed words of 24

aluminum washers number 1-12. using 12 seed words of 24
 
stored in two places.

if an evil doer  finds the brass ones he will think he has a 12 word set of a seed and go no where.

if a second evil doer finds the aluminum ones he will think he has a 12 word set of a seed and go no where.

so an evil doer needs to find both and then figure it is a 24 seed wallet not a pair  of separate 12 seed wallets


but what if i find both my brass 1-12 and my aluminum 1-12

well a comes first so list the 12 aluminum then list the 12 brass.


Since we are talking about this, and some of us (ME!) are kinda tweaky and like yefi said entropy junkies etc... I have some suggestions maybe already made.

1.  Do not use aluminum. Aluminum melts somewhere just north of 600c which is a bad fire is going to be reached.  In a bank vault you are likely fairly safe?  But why risk it.  Use Brass and Stainless Steel, or Titanium.  I would say the latter two, but I think you are going for a color difference.

2. Use a BIP-39 passphrase.  This cannot be stressed enough.  This is the second layer of protection, that is absolutely needed!  And this is true for all setups IMHO.  All the various hardware wallet cracks using lasers etc?  Only good for getting the seed.  The password has to be brute forced.  So even a fairly simple password, or pass phrase will add a significant amount of entropy.

Bonus:  Using the BIP-39 passphrase gives us a cool trick we can play.  Say you are fortunate enough to own 10 bitcoin.  Well I would do this:  Put 1.x BTC in an address derived from ONLY the root seed words, and then the rest (8.x) in an address derived from the seed + password.  This gives you a way to "hand over all your bitcoin" if you were threatened without losing everything for real.
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August 15, 2020, 01:55:47 PM

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.
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August 15, 2020, 02:10:17 PM
Last edit: August 15, 2020, 02:47:27 PM by Arriemoller

A farmer in England had his land littered with used tires by someone, he put up a camera and caught the guy on film, his daughter found the man on facebook, a local business, the man was confronted and refused to remove the tires. The farmer, with the help of some friends, collected the tires and dumped them in his front yard.
https://www.facebook.com/100044178352512/videos/vb.100044178352512/189691715846772

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8627203/Landowner-uses-tipper-truck-pile-400-tyres-lawn-fly-tipper.html

So, Daily mail spells tires "tyres" is "tires" wrong?
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August 15, 2020, 02:12:50 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)

BIP39 passphrase, stored in the brain and with a trusted family member. Exactly what I was thinking.
Already feeling inspired by the idea.
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August 15, 2020, 02:21:23 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.

...and then the person you trust misplaces that piece of paper, and it ends up in the hands of someone you DON'T trust. Your coins are gone!

My advice to anyone reading this: DON'T share PINs, passphrases, seeds, anything of that nature, with ANYONE, not even your parents, children, spouse, etc. They may be the most trustworthy people in the world, but they may carelessly compromise the security of your coins.

Perhaps, you could share the seed with only one or two very special persons in your life, who fulfill all of the requirements below:

1. You fully trust them (obviously),
2. They understand what Bitcoin and the seed are, and are crypto-literate,
3. They take security matters VERY seriously,
4. Loved/family persons (parents, spouses, children) should be excluded if they don't satisfy 1~3, no matter how much you love them!

If persons belonging to (4) get mad at you for not sharing the seed with them, and complain that you don't love/trust them, etc., it means that they don't understand the implications of (2) and (3), and should never be given access to the seed.
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August 15, 2020, 02:49:52 PM

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.

...and then the person you trust misplaces that piece of paper, and it ends up in the hands of someone you DON'T trust. Your coins are gone!

My advice to anyone reading this: DON'T share PINs, passphrases, seeds, anything of that nature, with ANYONE, not even your parents, children, spouse, etc. They may be the most trustworthy people in the world, but they may carelessly compromise the security of your coins.

Perhaps, you could share the seed with only one or two very special persons in your life, who fulfill all of the requirements below:

1. You fully trust them (obviously),
2. They understand what Bitcoin and the seed are, and are crypto-literate,
3. They take security matters VERY seriously,
4. Loved/family persons (parents, spouses, children) should be excluded if they don't satisfy 1~3, no matter how much you love them!

If persons belonging to (4) get mad at you for not sharing the seed with them, and complain that you don't love/trust them, etc., it means that they don't understand the implications of (2) and (3), and should never be given access to the seed.

IE. Give it to someone you trust.
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August 15, 2020, 02:52:38 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), JayJuanGee (1), AlcoHoDL (1)

BIP39 passphrase, stored in the brain and with a trusted family member. Exactly what I was thinking.
Already feeling inspired by the idea.

 I think this is awesome.  This invalidates the $5 wrench hack as well; now the bad guys need two $5 wrenches; we've doubled our security!
 
 j/k  You know I'll be following suit.


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August 15, 2020, 02:54:53 PM
Merited by jbreher (1)

A farmer in England had his land littered with used tires by someone, he put up a camera and caught the guy on film, his daughter found the man on facebook, a local business, the man was confronted and refused to remove the tires. The farmer, with the help of some friends, collected the tires and dumped them in his front yard.
https://www.facebook.com/100044178352512/videos/vb.100044178352512/189691715846772

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8627203/Landowner-uses-tipper-truck-pile-400-tyres-lawn-fly-tipper.html

So, Daily mail spells tires "tyres" is "tires" wrong?

 The author must have been too tyred to bother with proofreading.

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August 15, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.

...and then the person you trust misplaces that piece of paper, and it ends up in the hands of someone you DON'T trust. Your coins are gone!

My advice to anyone reading this: DON'T share PINs, passphrases, seeds, anything of that nature, with ANYONE, not even your parents, children, spouse, etc. They may be the most trustworthy people in the world, but they may carelessly compromise the security of your coins.

Perhaps, you could share the seed with only one or two very special persons in your life, who fulfill all of the requirements below:

1. You fully trust them (obviously),
2. They understand what Bitcoin and the seed are, and are crypto-literate,
3. They take security matters VERY seriously,
4. Loved/family persons (parents, spouses, children) should be excluded if they don't satisfy 1~3, no matter how much you love them!

If persons belonging to (4) get mad at you for not sharing the seed with them, and complain that you don't love/trust them, etc., it means that they don't understand the implications of (2) and (3), and should never be given access to the seed.

IE. Give it to someone you trust.

Nope!

Trust is not enough. When you need heart surgery, you go to a heart surgeon, preferably one you know is very good at his job (trust + knowledge). You don't let your brother or wife do it (you really trust them, and they love you, but they'll kill you if you let them operate).

Wink
Arriemoller
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August 15, 2020, 02:55:12 PM

If you write it on a piece (or several) of paper, laminate it, put it in a box, bury it in the garden or wherever, or otherwise keep them safe. Or if you stamp it on washers and do the same thing doesn't make much difference in my view.
Having said that, I think it's a cool idea, and I'm going to the hardware store on Monday, just for the fun of it.
Arriemoller
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August 15, 2020, 02:57:29 PM

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.

...and then the person you trust misplaces that piece of paper, and it ends up in the hands of someone you DON'T trust. Your coins are gone!

My advice to anyone reading this: DON'T share PINs, passphrases, seeds, anything of that nature, with ANYONE, not even your parents, children, spouse, etc. They may be the most trustworthy people in the world, but they may carelessly compromise the security of your coins.

Perhaps, you could share the seed with only one or two very special persons in your life, who fulfill all of the requirements below:

1. You fully trust them (obviously),
2. They understand what Bitcoin and the seed are, and are crypto-literate,
3. They take security matters VERY seriously,
4. Loved/family persons (parents, spouses, children) should be excluded if they don't satisfy 1~3, no matter how much you love them!

If persons belonging to (4) get mad at you for not sharing the seed with them, and complain that you don't love/trust them, etc., it means that they don't understand the implications of (2) and (3), and should never be given access to the seed.

IE. Give it to someone you trust.

Nope!

Trust is not enough. When you need heart surgery, you go to a heart surgeon, preferably one you know is very good at his job (trust + knowledge). You don't let your brother or wife do it (you really trust them, and they love you, but they'll kill you if you let them operate).

Wink

No, I do not trust my brother to perform heart surgery.

The things you have written as 1. 2. 3. and 4. = trust.
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August 15, 2020, 03:04:09 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1)

BIP39 passphrase, stored in the brain and with a trusted family member. Exactly what I was thinking.
Already feeling inspired by the idea.

 I think this is awesome.  This invalidates the $5 wrench hack as well; now the bad guys need two $5 wrenches; we've doubled our security!
 
 j/k  You know I'll be following suit.



More on security: @ 170 grams, this upgrades your fist to a KO hammer.  Cool
Arriemoller
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August 15, 2020, 03:09:50 PM

A farmer in England had his land littered with used tires by someone, he put up a camera and caught the guy on film, his daughter found the man on facebook, a local business, the man was confronted and refused to remove the tires. The farmer, with the help of some friends, collected the tires and dumped them in his front yard.
https://www.facebook.com/100044178352512/videos/vb.100044178352512/189691715846772

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8627203/Landowner-uses-tipper-truck-pile-400-tyres-lawn-fly-tipper.html

So, Daily mail spells tires "tyres" is "tires" wrong?

 The author must have been too tyred to bother with proofreading.



Good one.
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August 15, 2020, 03:12:38 PM

Or, you could just write it on a piece of paper and give it to someone you trust.

...and then the person you trust misplaces that piece of paper, and it ends up in the hands of someone you DON'T trust. Your coins are gone!

My advice to anyone reading this: DON'T share PINs, passphrases, seeds, anything of that nature, with ANYONE, not even your parents, children, spouse, etc. They may be the most trustworthy people in the world, but they may carelessly compromise the security of your coins.

Perhaps, you could share the seed with only one or two very special persons in your life, who fulfill all of the requirements below:

1. You fully trust them (obviously),
2. They understand what Bitcoin and the seed are, and are crypto-literate,
3. They take security matters VERY seriously,
4. Loved/family persons (parents, spouses, children) should be excluded if they don't satisfy 1~3, no matter how much you love them!

If persons belonging to (4) get mad at you for not sharing the seed with them, and complain that you don't love/trust them, etc., it means that they don't understand the implications of (2) and (3), and should never be given access to the seed.

IE. Give it to someone you trust.

Nope!

Trust is not enough. When you need heart surgery, you go to a heart surgeon, preferably one you know is very good at his job (trust + knowledge). You don't let your brother or wife do it (you really trust them, and they love you, but they'll kill you if you let them operate).

Wink

No, I do not trust my brother to perform heart surgery.

The things you have written as 1. 2. 3. and 4. = trust.

If you put it that way, yes. I just wanted to stress that you should not give anyone access to your seed, unless they know how to handle it. Trust, in the traditional sense, may not be interpreted that way... Better safe than sorry!

Also, we are only humans, so even someone who fulfills 1~4 in my post above, could make a mistake. That's why I said, "never share with anyone". The less people know, the safer it is.
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August 15, 2020, 03:14:35 PM

^

How you interpret trust might be a cultural thing, I don't see that we disagree really.
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August 15, 2020, 03:18:26 PM

Now, if bitcoin could just climb over 12000 and a low pressure could come in from the British isles, that would be just fine.

30 degrees in the shadow, no wind.
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August 15, 2020, 03:22:49 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

^

How you interpret trust might be a cultural thing, I don't see that we disagree really.

Yes, we agree in essence. Often people mix love with trust. I've heard cases where spouses demand to know such details as proof of love/trust etc. They should know that a seed needs special handling. And we should know who to share it with (or if we even should disclose ownership of coins to certain people).

The small, insignificant value of Bitcoin a few years ago, has now turned into a very serious thing that forces owners to reconsider and re-evaluate their security practices.
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