Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[explorer]

Good morn Bitcoinland.
One one six two six dollars
Bitcoinaverage).

Sideways (slightly up)
OK but somewhat boring-
I need more coffee.

Go go Bitcoin go.
Go Bitcoin go Bitcoin go.
Go go Bitcoin go.

1. Make some of your biggest dreams come true.
2. Otherwise continue to live your life "normal"*

*maybe to new living standards, though.

I'd get some land, a stable and some horses, a small skatepark and independent energy source(s) for my home, maybe a foreign place for holiday and run/hide purposes.
No supercar(s), no castles, no seasteads, no bling, no hos, no blow. Wait... a garden of weeden, maybe. yeah, i guess  

I think one thing that sinks lottery winners is that it the total cost of ownership of any item far exceeds the mere purchase price. Big houses cost a lot of money over time for upkeep/maintenance, as do Lambos. Rich people budget for this, flash rich people buy big houses for their family members then start getting hit up for repairs, maintenance, etc. Or they buy a "business" that needs a lot of capital that you shovel in because.... well you bought it.

Something to think about.

All true. They are not used to manage money and many are easy prey for unscrupulous financial advisors, personal bankers, etc. Also, many decide to be excessively generous with other family members etc... or, as you say, decide to start/buy business without having the slightlest idea of how to manage one and, what is even worse, employing family members thus creating a totally unprofitable sink hole that they are afraid to stop on time.

That way, and even without ever going into a lambos, hookers and coke spending spree, maybe even before substantially changing their life they find themselves bankrupt (sometimes without being aware of it until years after the fact).

Preserving/increasing wealth is a job in itself that requires some skills and dedication, otherwise easy comes easy goes.

That being said, I don't think the average OG Hodler would easily fall into above mistakes...

It's hard to get rich
And not get caught up in it.
You must still think poor.

Ignore your new wealth
And spend like you always did
When you were dirt poor.

Scrimp on ev'rything
Keep your spending just as low
As in poverty.

It's never easy
And in time you'll find that you'll
Be spending faster.

Hopefully by then
You'll have saved enough money
And built good habits.

You can start living
Happily ever after.
Don't be n-word rich.

Hookers, Lambos, blow
Are obviously just traps
That keep suckers poor.

Good to see you're still here dropping wisdom 

[1685999157]

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[1685999157]

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[1685999157]

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[Toxic2040]

Good to see you're still here dropping wisdom 

+2 WOsMerits


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Much wisdom and more importantly in my opinion..empathy shown over the last pages WO's. This is why I hang my hat here.

+1 WOsMerit guys


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the Elephants song leads cadence as the march goes on
1h


toe jam and elbow grease
4h

#stronghands

[friends1980]

A few simple rules everyone should be doing: Don't spend more than you earn, save or invest the difference, avoid debt.

That is pretty much the only rule you need to follow to be rich. It does not really matter how much you earn. If you spend more than you earn, then you will never be rich. If you save some and try to implement you will sooner or latter see results.

Also, you need very little to be happy.

And be careful, cuz new property creates new costs: Taxes for cars and houses. Room for shoes and clothes. Electricity for smartphones and TVs. And so on.

This is where the brilliant BTC comes in. You buy it and you don't even pay banks or taxes (in theory).

[BobLawblaw]

Money wont change the essence of the person, at best/worst it will amplify it.
If someone is already an asshole, in all likelihood they just become a rich asshole.

Indeed. People go on about how "power corrupts" but to be honest,
...
It simply reveals the kind of person that was always there, doesn't change anything about them.

#meta

I'm capable of being an incredible asshole (As Rick, and some of you can attest to). Always have tended towards assholism, since my teen years, as a self-protection mechanism, but for the most part I'm usually a chilled out, if not a bit of a cold and distant person.

The fact that I'm now "rich" has not fundamentally changed the person that I am. I'm still an asshole, but the "rich" correlation leaves me a bit befuddled as to how that has any impact on my behavior (maybe I'm a bit more cocky and flaunty on rare occasions, tho; usually in response to someone looking down upon me or being judgemental)

Have nicer toys and lifestyle now, but don't feel I have any meaningful "power" or have been corrupted in any way, beyond the damage I have done to myself with substances; I've never been the type to seek out "power" to begin with, mostly because of introversion and a desire to be left alone.

If I'm being absolutely honest with myself, I would say that years of therapy has made me a better person today, than when I was in highschool/college/early career.

Speaking exactly to your "power corrupts", have seen that play out in various forms over the course of my life, and it's extremely sad to see happen - Good people being utterly corrupted into compassionless monsters.

Just wanting to offer an alternate view from someone who engages in a lot of self-introspection and has had the benefit of gaining tools to help me cope with life and the human condition.

I guess to the final point, yes, perhaps it can - more clearly - reveal the kind of person that was always there. Can't argue with that.

HODL strong, brothers. Nice to see this slow, and steady upward climb, as I'm presently observing ~$11,675 USD/BTC.

[aesma]

Nobody using "margin" then ?

First week of august I was in vacation at my parents' seaside home, with my sister, brother and his family, and older half-sister and her family. My brother is making 3 times more money than me and his partner has inherited money so they spend quite a lot (bought a large flat and remade it for a 6 digits amount on top), but they can and still save money. My older half sister, meanwhile, is always spending more than she earns, and asking my father for money... She was brought up by her mother after the divorce from my father, and it shows, her mother was unable to save anything either, for example she rented a flat in Paris all her life, until she simply couldn't because prices have become crazy. If she had bought one instead, like was easy in the 70's and 80's, she would be rich now. I'm sure if you give a large amount of money to someone like that, millions earned at the lottery let's say, it will end in tears.

[d_eddie]

Weekend or weekday
Hodlers are making it through
The endless sideways







#haiku

[d_eddie]

By the way, I managed to withdraw everything from Bitmex before going through the latest KYC/AML doorway. Anybody still keeping funds with them must complete identification before they can trade, deposit or withdraw.

[Gyrsur]

By the way, I managed to withdraw everything from Bitmex before going through the latest KYC/AML doorway. Anybody still keeping funds with them must complete identification before they can trade, deposit or withdraw.

same story with Bitstamp some time ago (don't remember which year it was). Bitstamp switched to KYC/AML. I had 0.00x (or was it 0.0x ?) BTC on Bitstamp and decided to disappear into the dark.  

BTW, how is your trading system working, d_eddie?

[JayJuanGee]

We often speak of Bitcoin mooning and I sometimes wonder how managing an enormous newfound wealth might inevitably impact my life and mental state.  A slippery slope no doubt

Yeah, this is a valid concern for many of us... I've heard of people who won the Lottery (several $M) and two years later they were penniless and owing to banks...

I think it's up to the individual, his character and attitude towards life. Personally, I feel it won't change me or affect my mental state etc., but no one really knows until he gets into that "fuck you rich" state. We'll know soon enough.  

A co worker at my wife's job won two lotteries in one month. 2 MILL AND 7 MILL

he ended up divorced and working as an airport security guard.

The job he quit paid 110k the airport job was less then 1/2 that. It took under three years for the money to be lost.

Well, just one of those lottery winning should be close to reaching fuck you status, on a gross level, but probably we need to speak net winnings rather than gross winnings.

Let's say that the guy pretty much had a lot of messed up finances at the time of winning the lotteries, and lots of taxes, too, so hypothetically pretty much half of the winnings were eaten up.. ..

He should still had pretty much $4-5 million left over to take home, which many of us would have considered to have been totally within fuck you status to have been able to generate $13k to $16k per month in passive income - which by the way would dwarf the income from his previous JOBs at somewhere between $156k to $200k per year of passive income.  That should be enough.. especially passive income, no?

Maybe each of us should attempt to pinky promise that we can be responsible enough to live within such means.. and just figure out a place to put the money in order to generate that passive income. Hey if we earned such passive income in cash, gosh putting half or more of that value into bitcoin might not be a bad idea... and then just cash out the passive income (1% per quarter or 4% per year) incrementally along the way (that way the value is liquid)

Oh wait, we are already in bitcoin.... ok... just add to the BTC stash, then... and cash out incrementally.  no?  figure out ways to safeguard those coins.  3-4 private wallets, maybe a couple of hot wallets with smaller amounts?

Money wont change the essence of the person, at best/worst it will amplify it.

If someone is already an asshole, in all likelihood they just become a rich asshole.

(that was quote I heard on here pre-2013 btw)

Indeed. People go on about how "power corrupts" but to be honest,

"power reveals".

It simply reveals the kind of person that was always there, doesn't change anything about them.

Something to always keep in mind.

With some people, you get a sense that you would not want to place them in a position of power because either they would not be able to handle it or they would end up abusing it (which may just be two ways of saying the same thing).

Some people end up getting into positions of power, despite what anyone else might want, then we get to witness how such power nuevos handle such actualized (rather than speculative) power.

[Biodom]

A few simple rules everyone should be doing: Don't spend more than you earn, save or invest the difference, avoid debt.

True, albeit this does not need to be followed religiously after, for example, 60-65 (if you stopped working).
I am trying to figure out what to do afterwards.
Options:
1. Divide whatever I would have by then by, say, a factor of 30 and proceed to spend it. Not much would be there by 90 (if life continues until then, no life ending event (LEE)).
2. Continue as if I had the same salary, and spend that much. Nothing much would change, which kind of defeats the purpose.
3. Go crazy, buy something spectacular (RE in a premier location), enjoy myself for, say, 5-10 years, then retreat to a simpler lifestyle (after 70-75, if no LEE occurs).
4. #2, then bequest the rest to relatives and/or causes. Not sure if for me it would be a right thing (personal reasons aka- younger generation of mine).

Right now, #3 is in the lead.

PS. Btw, spending down your 'stash' is NOT passive income, let's make this distinction clear. Passive income is interest, rents, dividends, royalties, etc.

[friends1980]

enjoy myself for, say, 5-10 years, then retreat to a simpler lifestyle (after 70-75, if no LEE occurs).

Probably a good decision, but I suppose you have good insurance or social security, because what if you need extra medical treatment after 70-75 and have no private money left?

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

[Biodom]

enjoy myself for, say, 5-10 years, then retreat to a simpler lifestyle (after 70-75, if no LEE occurs).

Probably a good decision, but I suppose you have good insurance or social security, because what if you need extra medical treatment after 70-75 and have no private money left?

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

true, but in US, most medicals (but not all) are covered by medicare (after 65). Right about soc security too-albeit average is small in US, about $18K/year, but copay for medicare is running about $2K/year. However, who knows if this will all survive the torments of the Fourth turning.

Re ivory tower-education levels here vary, but by now all still here are battle-hardened hodlers (at least in words, lol). The rest simply left.

[Elwar]

lately been contemplating about selling my business. after more than two decades it is kind of boring and even the thought of selling didn't get me exited. but then - all of a sudden - it dawned on me that this would enable me to shove some 6 digit fiat amount into bitcoin. not sure if this is reckless, stupid or brilliant.

My thought process when I decided that I had enough money in bitcoin to retire.

I had enough in BTC but not much cash. So I spent my last year of work filling my bank account with dollars to spend so I would have a few years worth of money to live on without dipping into my BTC. I saved up about $80k and retired in 2018, I think I just moved the last of my cash to my spending account last week. Of course living in Thailand was cheap. Living in Panama would have been cheap but I started putting money into Ocean Builders. So I had to dip into my BTC a bit for that.

That helped me quite a bit considering the BTC price was below what I felt was worth spending for most of those 2 years.

[JayJuanGee]

Nobody using "margin" then ?

If you are going long, margin in NOT needed.

One way to screw up nearly a sure bet, is to use margin.    

PS. Btw, spending down your 'stash' is NOT passive income, let's make this distinction clear. Passive income is interest, rents, dividends, royalties, etc.

Let's make this clear.  If your BTC stash is appreciating in value more than you are spending, then that is practically (for all intents and purposes) the same thing as passive income because your BTC stash holds its value (presumably if you are measuring the value of such stash in dollars).

Don't get diverted into believing that your BTC has to "earn" more BTC in order for it to appreciate in value (which causes a lot of people to do a lot of dumb things, including putting their BTC with third parties or even selling to much too soon of their BTC for a purportedly dividend paying asset... blah blah blah)..  

Those talking points that suggest that you need to continue to have more BTC (or that you need to earn dividend on your BTC in order for the income to count) are nearly pure bullshit designed to get you to believe that you cannot maintain and spend from your own BTC stash and maintain its value (in terms of dollar worth) or that you need to put your value with someone more qualified.. blah blah blah.

Remember bitcoin is designed to pump forever (of course not guaranteed, but there is a pretty damned strong track record, already), and we could even plot out how acquiring 250BTC in 2013 or even in 2015 would be worth more in 2020... and you could have even been withdrawing 1% per quarter from your 250BTC stash, and you would still be way better off in terms of dollar value of your stash including having more value in 2020 then you had when you purchased those BTC.  Do I need to provide a chart for you to see it or are you just trying to be overly technical with your denial of the ability to develop a system of passive income from an asset like bitcoin?

[philipma1957]

enjoy myself for, say, 5-10 years, then retreat to a simpler lifestyle (after 70-75, if no LEE occurs).

Probably a good decision, but I suppose you have good insurance or social security, because what if you need extra medical treatment after 70-75 and have no private money left?

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

true, but in US, most medicals (but not all) are covered by medicare (after 65). Right about soc security too-albeit average is small in US, about $18K/year, but copay for medicare is running about $2K/year. However, who knows if this will all survive the torments of the Fourth turning.

Re ivory tower-education levels here vary, but by now all still here are battle-hardened hodlers (at least in words, lol). The rest simply left.

i get medicare when i turn 66. yrs and 6 months. old.



time is over 65 if you were born in 1956
time is over 66 if you were born in 1957
time is over 67 if you were born in 1958.

[Last of the V8s]

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

Quality of discussion today has been terrific. We're allowed to veer off topic roughly speaking if there's consensus on the new topic.

[JayJuanGee]

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

Quality of discussion today has been terrific. We're allowed to veer off topic roughly speaking if there's consensus on the new topic.

Seems to me that friends1980 has been diverted from his original mission in this here thread, which was supposed to be reading the whole thread and reporting his various findings back to us on a periodic basis.

Get back to your duties, friends1980!!!!!!!       

[Biodom]

enjoy myself for, say, 5-10 years, then retreat to a simpler lifestyle (after 70-75, if no LEE occurs).

Probably a good decision, but I suppose you have good insurance or social security, because what if you need extra medical treatment after 70-75 and have no private money left?

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

true, but in US, most medicals (but not all) are covered by medicare (after 65). Right about soc security too-albeit average is small in US, about $18K/year, but copay for medicare is running about $2K/year. However, who knows if this will all survive the torments of the Fourth turning.

Re ivory tower-education levels here vary, but by now all still here are battle-hardened hodlers (at least in words, lol). The rest simply left.

i get medicare when i turn 66. yrs and 6 months. old.



time is over 65 if you were born in 1956
time is over 66 if you were born in 1957
time is over 67 if you were born in 1958.

Phil, nope.
Everybody gets Medicare at 65.
You'll get social security at whatever times you indicated, which are also only partially correct (for last, not 1958, but 1959 and not over 67, but 67).
This is actually important because you HAVE to enroll in medicare at 65, plus/minus 3 or four months.
If you apply at 66, 6month, you would have a large and PERMANENT penalty, so i suggest to check it out.
PS this covers some of the options (re working or not working):
https://www.medicareresources.org/faqs/do-i-need-to-sign-up-for-medicare-at-65-if-im-still-working/

[Gyrsur]

Another important question: why do I feel as if I'm in the Ivory Tower?

Quality of discussion today has been terrific. We're allowed to veer off topic roughly speaking if there's consensus on the new topic.

which topic you mean?

[Gyrsur]

if you have balls enough let us play a little game.