Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Last of the V8s]

Not going near that rickety old tub. Last time I went on a boat, Very Bad Things happened to my wallet. Never again.

[Cryptotourist]

And custody of the girlfriend?  If she’s of a cryptokinky bent, get her into the blockchain per consensus rules.

Well, it all depends on if she's nice. If she is, and I also have the coinz, you guys are so fucked.
Not. I would never think to steal someone else's woman coinz.

Now that's a bull. Skinny one, but at least got his balls and horns right - maybe even the attitude.

Why can't we grow hookers? Next level... 

Glory holes first, we need to take this slow.
Also need to be practical, and always have decentralization in mind.


Sideways in a bull market:

[serveria.com]

... this is a better idea than sea-steading, or better version of it rather. I've wondered why this hasn't been considered in the past as there already exists a community of 'international' citizens that cruise the world continuously, albeit generally retired.
With all the cruise industry liners sitting idle due to CoVid there will be some bargains coming on the market. You could design a moving city by lashing together a fleet of them that slowly rotates around the world on some schedule or another, maybe with the ocean gyre currents and drops anchor outside welcoming nations for commerce and trade occasionally. Then you could lash on an oil tanker to up the range for the fleet, or a container vessel and barge for commercial/industrial activities/ The engineering is already done, the modules are already built, they call them big boats.

^ Got yourself a vacant cruise ship (conveniently already registered in a tax haven)?

MS Satoshi
Oh yes, I bought a cruise ship
The Crypto Cruise Ship

Wow, are you serious? That's a bit bigger than a seastead. Is it this actual one that you are refitting to be bitcoin-oriented?


Sounds like an interesting venture, Elwar. Congrats! Any timeshare presentations we can attend to check it out for a few nights free?

Yep, that is a render of the actual ship we purchased (which we are not allowed to name) refitted with our logos.

245 meters long, 777 cabins.

Cabins starting at $25,000. The auction for the rooms starts November 5th.

https://ocean.builders/cruiseship

We'll be accepting bitcoin at all businesses on the ship.

The problem with buying a cruise ship has usually been about the cost. COVID allowed us to get a good deal but that won't last forever.

Our plan is to have it anchored about 30 minutes from Panama City further conserving costs by not burning much fuel.
Near the ship we will put a barge or cargo ship to act as a floating factory to build other floating structures such as Ocean Builders SeaPods and floating islands.
It makes sense to try such floating living close to shore first without jumping straight to 200nm out. Living on the water gives some small freedoms we don't have on shore but also comes with other maritime laws we don't have on land. We will need to build communities to benefit from the new system in ways we do not now know.

Cruise ship living sounds expensive as shit... but what do I know...

If you were to have the level of hospitality that cruises offer on land it would be expensive as well. We will have to prepare people for the reality that this isn't a vacation, this is your home where you work and pay for your own meals and entertainment. You would get bored of the cruise life after a few weeks. But if you're busy working then it's not much different from living in the dorms at school. Small rooms but most of the time you're out on campus or if you're in your room you're studying your ass off.

Interesting it seems you can get one for cheap from the scrapyard: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-turkey-ships-idUSKBN26O0LC

[Last of the V8s]

where my hopium pipe is?
oh here
https://www.crypto-news-flash.com/sec-chairman-open-for-tokenized-etf-hope-for-bitcoin/

oh wait

We’re willing to try that. Our door is wide open. If you want to show how to tokenize the ETF product in a way that adds efficiency, we want to meet with you, we want to facilitate that.

#derp

[Last of the V8s]

either you can twit from jail or Sam Reed, who the paid thugs arrested for BitMex things, seems to be out
https://twitter.com/STRML_/likes

[Last of the V8s]

[Phil_S]

Observing 10721.

[Philipma1957cellphone]

Observing 10721.

I want 11000 by midnight

[onecall123]

Trump qualify = positive impact on market.

Biden qualify = negative impact on market.

That's it.........

[Febo]

Interesting it seems you can get one for cheap from the scrapyard

They still cost money.  But yes, would be nice to get one of CCL Fantasy class ships that are just getting scraped in Aliaga. I guess budged was not high enough for that.

[Dabs]

This is the same problem as with “plausible deniability” idiot-bait:  The real world does not work this way!  In the real world, if an investigator gets a 90% probability, or even a 10% probability linking transactions, then that is what is called an “investigative lead” to be pursued and confirmed with other evidence.  Or maybe just used in other ways, if someone who wants to get you just isn’t too picky about “proof”.

...

Most Internet-armchair security “experts” have no fucking idea how detectives actually work.  Evidence does NOT need to be “proof” to be very, very useful.

Wasabi Wallet does Payjoin!  This is separate from, and additional to, their CoinJoin implementation.
JoinMarket also does Payjoin:

...

That last point is important; and it applies to Payjoin, too.  If a significant number of people were to use Payjoin and CoinSwap, Chainalysis would be sad because their heuristics would become generally unreliable.  Mass-surveillance would be more difficult, and fungibility would be improved.  It would not be perfect—far from it—but this is a huge step in the right direction!

I understand everything you are saying. It would be a good idea to have a good attorney too, who can muddle up all those 10% findings.

I've been watching CoinJoin when it was some thread titled "Taint me rich" or something.

On the one hand, if you're a target, you are a target, and there is little you can do about any other surveillance they set up on you or tracking or whatever. You're screwed no matter what, unless you "ghost" and just disappear completely. (or at least, your transactions just disappear, the easiest way is to just stop for right now.)

But if you're not yet a target, you can hide or blend with the crowd and never be singled out in the first place.

So ideally, all those payjoins, coinjoins, coinswaps ... as well as using multiple exchanges, preferably the decentralized ones, swapping from one coin to an alt and then back (if needed) or using that alt to do your transactions... you get the picture. (or you don't, which implies no one else does.)


What a lot of people forget, is that in the real world, there is "real" security... sometimes known as physical security. You get aware of this if you've served any amount of time in the police or military forces, or you just plain like your 2nd amendment (for those folks in the USA) and carry daily.

I come from a country (the Philippines) that does not have it as a right in our constitution, but more so a right as an individual that we have practiced to keep since many other nations have tried to invade or colonize us over the centuries. I just treat everything as NPE (non permissive environment).

[nullius]

Reply to Jay is below.  First things first...

https://twitter.com/stephendpalley/status/1311694266389929986

BREAKING: CFTC sues Bitmex, Arthur Hayes "to enjoin their ongoing illegal offering of commodity derivatives to U.S. persons, their acceptance of funds to margin derivatives transactions from individuals and entities in the U.S., & their operation of a derivatives trading platform

yay the drama we need

BitMEX CTO got arrested.

(etc...)

Smooth move.

I have noticed that many sites nowadays ban Americans together with the slaves “citizens” of other notoriously “free” countries, such as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

I always get a laugh when I see the United States on one of those “rogue state people, go away” TOS lists.  Too bad—it must pretty much suck for any sane individual Americans and/or North Koreans.

BitMEX and the mobile apps issued under BMEX are wholly owned and operated by HDR Global Trading Limited, a Republic of Seychelles incorporated entity or its relevant authorised affiliates.

BitMEX did not offer anything to “U.S. persons”!

Pre-blowup archive for reference: https://web.archive.org/web/20200930062121/https://www.bitmex.com/app/terms

You are not allowed to access or use the Services or the Trading Platform if you are located, incorporated or otherwise established in, or a citizen or resident of: (i) the United States of America, the province of Ontario in Canada, the province of Québec in Canada, the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People’s Republic of China, the Republic of Seychelles, Bermuda, Cuba, Crimea and Sevastopol, Iran, Syria, North Korea or Sudan;

Perhaps the people cheering this personally abide by all North Korean laws and regulations?

Whereas if jurisdiction is lacking, then why should a defendant suffer trial before a court lacking proper authority, for alleged violation of laws that do not bind the defendant?  

Of course in the law, there are various issues that are considered threshold issues, and of course, jurisdiction is one of those areas.

[...]

Sometimes attorneys will argue issues that are further up the ladder because if they end up losing on some of the more foundational / threshold issues and they present NO arguments on the other matters, then they would end up losing everything merely based on losing on the threshold issue.  Some lawyers and clients are going to be more willing to stick to ONLY arguing the one issue - but many times, they do end up arguing the other issues, too, while at the same time NOT waiving their right to be totally correct on the foundational/threshold issue that allows the bringing of the case in the first place.

[...]

The law can be pretty god damned crazy, sometimes, because it is NOT really uncommon for attorneys to make internally inconsistent arguments, just to make sure that their bases are all covered - but frequently also, they will make their strongest arguments first, and sometimes cut off weaker arguments in order to NOT seem to be grappling at straws ... but I would think that the vast majority of western judges are well able to accept that parties will sometimes make inconsistent arguments... but still tactically, sometimes, it may well be better to just stick to the stronger arguments and to eliminate the weaker and inconsistent arguments or the non-threshold arguments - like you seem to be suggesting.

Of course, I did not intend to suggest what the BitMEX legal strategy should be.

When the client’s life, liberty, and/or property are on the line, then unless the client wants to take a huge legal risk merely to grandstand, it would be negligent malpractice for an attorney to omit such arguments in the alternative as may be available to him.

“This jurisdiction’s laws do not bind my client, and this court lacks proper authority to try my client—but dear honourable court of improper authority, here is why my client did not even violate the laws that do not bind him.”

It looks damn sleazy, and it is—but the legal system is sleazy.  The problem is institutional and systemic.  There is no reason to make a martyr of oneself by pretending that it isn’t.

Whereas this forum is NOT the court.  And I am not an attorney-at-law representing the BitMEX (HDR) corporation and/or its executives.

Thus, I will take a stand and say, first of all, explain just why the fuck the United States is pretending to have jurisdiction here.  What is the American CFTC, a god?


Why am I so vehement about this?  Besides general principle, that is.

On the other hand, it is possible that you and I (or one of us) might find out that Bitmex's behavior was more egregious than we had earlier considered, and we might adjust our opinions or maybe the strength of our opinion(s) might change with the learning of new facts and logic.

I do NOT like scammy exchanges.  Indeed, earlier this year on this forum, I got booted out of DT2 because I was gunning too hard for Yobit.  (A DT1 who was previously on good terms with me suddenly ~attacked me in another thread within 2 hours of starting to defend Yobit from me; the timestamps make the motive quite transparent.)  Now, that is a scammy exchange—but I digress...

BitMEX has always had a sterling reputation.  Now, due to this American action, I suddenly see people convicting them in the “court of public opinion”—it seems just because “American CFTC said so”.  If BitMEX were doing something really wrong, and if the evidence were brought out, then I would be the first to condemn the wrongdoing.  (Whether or not the Americans have the right to prosecute it would be another matter—they are NOT the world-police.)  But that is not what I have been seeing, these past few days.

Meanwhile, just yesterday, I popped into the BSV thread for the first time (Loyce.club archive, just in case).  And today, what do I there behold?

Third post by a “Newbie” account, obvious shill:
Re: [ANN] [BSV] BitcoinSV - Satoshi's Vision for Bitcoin

https://coingeek.com/coingeek-live-2020-regulating-the-digital-assets-industry-is-key-to-future-growth/

CoinGeek Live 2020: Regulating the digital assets industry is key to future growth
 
The days when digital assets were considered a lawless wild west which was beyond the reach of regulators is way behind us. On Day 1 of the CoinGeek Live conference, some of the leading minds in the legal industry discussed the regulation of the digital asset industry, letting us in on how to build a compliant Bitcoin business in the U.S., Japan and the European Union.

While regulators started off on the back foot in policing the digital assets industry, most of them are now catching up, Joshua Ashley Klayman told the virtual audience. Klayman is a senior counsel at Linklaters LLP, a London-based law firm with over 3,000 lawyers across the world. Based in New York, Klayman works with digital asset companies that are seeking to get into the U.S. market.

“It’s been said many times that there’s a lack of regulatory clarity. I think at this point, that’s just an excuse. I think if you engage with the regulators, you can find a path forward,” she remarked.

[...]

The subject is interesting, without trust no regulation... without regulation... no state therefore no existence. All open and in conformity with the laws. This is not the case for many other coins.

Compare:

Bitcoin is a 'common good'.
Bitmex was damaging it by 100x margin, as easy as this.
btc going down 1% wipes out the 100X long position.
can a 1btc account spoof? No. can a 10K-100K btc account do the same on mex? Absolutely.
We have speed limit signs on most highways, right? Same idea.
Bitmex is no autobahn.

I would not shear a single tear if mex is gone or curtailed (after allowing outgoing btc transfers, of course).

Resistance to the “ZOMG we need to regulate it!!! kowtow to the regulators” attitude is a major Bitcoin issue—and resistance to American world-police megalomania is a major issue to anybody who does not want to be a slave.

[eXPHorizon]

I was offered sex today, by a 21 year old girl. In exchange for that, I was supposed to advertise some kind of bathroom cleaner to my friends. Of course I declined because I am a person of high moral standards with a strong willpower. Just as strong as Ajax, the super strong bathroom cleaner. Now available scented with lemon or vanilla.

[Biodom]

Much improvement in btc chart since bitmex "happenings"...those f--kers were causing this endless barting-debarting, I strongly suspect.
Is there a potential causation or at least correlation? We shall see in 1 mo.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Much improvement in btc chart since bitmex "happenings"...those f--kers were causing this endless barting-debarting, I strongly suspect.
Is there a potential causation or at least correlation? We shall see in 1 mo.

I expect a fairly significant move up in Q4 of 2020 but it’s just a bit boring & frustrating now waiting. I’m quite confident we’ll end the year over $13,000 which would set us up fantastically for the expected fireworks at some point in 2021. We’ve got to be expecting upwards of $50,000 per coin before 2022.

My bags are full & heavy, I’ve been waiting many years for what’s coming.......  

Just to show how much room we have for growth -



@ecoinometrics
For context a $2 trillion market cap for #Bitcoin  would put one BTC at $100,000.

That's also the same market cap as Apple.

To reach the market cap of gold, one BTC would be worth about $500,000.

There is plenty of upside to come.

[nullius]

Jeff Bezos is an “asset”?

Much improvement in btc chart since bitmex "happenings"...those fuckers were causing this endless barting-debarting.
Is there a potential causation or at least correlation? We shall see in 1 mo.

If Bitcoin cannot survive without being tied to Mommy American-CFTC’s apron strings, then you should sell right now because it’s worthless.

[Indymoney]

Jeff Bezos is an “asset”?

After reading this I feel yes an asset     Breaking the amount down more, Bezos is making about $321 million a day, $13.4 million an hour, $222,884 a minute, and $3,715 a second this year

[JayJuanGee]

On the Bitmex drama, my thoughts.
Some bitcoin companies are like lab rats: they have been left alone to experiment things that one day will become part of the new FINancialTECHnology world. Take Bitmex: bringing futures to the next level right? or finex or any other. Then they come and tell you, hey boy, this is our territory, how do you dare?
And then they publicly admit that "Digital assets hold great promise for our derivatives market and for our economy". Yeah, right?

Thumbs up to 600watt, somac. for https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg55302340#msg55302340

With CME, Bakkt and Grayscale, the US derivate market is becoming of "significant size", which was one of the main concerns of SEC. The other - manipulations of almost anonymous high leverage traders operating on Mex is now in the process of solving. This is not only CFTC and SEC concern but possibly the main "bart generator" for the last 2 years. So in any possible way, Mex news is good for Bitcoin. The 3% drop in the price is by no means to be compared with the benefits of manipulators being kicked out of the market.

It is quite possible that the CFTC statement "Digital assets hold great promise for our derivatives market and for our economy" is related to a possible ETF approval, as also suggested in this article:
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/a-big-positive-step-towards-the-bitcoin-etf-approval/

Although, IMO, institutions will find a way to get into Bitcoin without an ETF. We've seen however, that in the last months despite the huge purchases, the price didn't move as much as it should. The only logical explanation is of course the fraudulent shorting using Mex and other not well regulated exchanges. There is also a non logical explanation. As we are normal people here, carefuly thinking about every detail, we tend to forget that there are people who are not like us. Take for example Las Vegas - how many addicted people are in the casinos losing all the cash they bring in their pockets! The same is with the addicted daily traders, who can't be called manipulators, but like vicious brainless piranhas eat the price down until their stash is gone in an endless stop loss chase. The removal of Mex shorters will tip the balance against the piranhas and in favour of the natural growth. So I applaud the CFTC action and hopefully it will shut down Mex and put their owners and other money launderers in jail, where they belong!

I did merit this post because I think the idea expressed has some plausibility.
but...
I strongly oppose the the highlighted part. it is cheap to demand jail for folks you don't know personally. the problem is that for someone this may become very personal. I was put in jail on several occasions mainly for political reasons fighting against and also breaking drug laws. jail is a serious matter. it is a very archaic punishment. to be locked into a small cell is a shocking experience.
you cannot go anywhere anymore and this has power to break your back. they wanted to lock me up for 10 years during my latest trial. the law that they used to press the charges in my case was not even anti-drug law but regarded pharmacy. the European High Court had to step in and declare the prosecutor's and court's strategy unconstitutional. the incident was more than a decade ago but the the trial is still not resolved.  for several years this 10 yer sentence was hanging above my life like a Damocles sword. with wife and kids this ain't no fun and gave me serious insights and learning experience regarding jail, police, punishment etc.  my take is that jail should be exclusively for violent crimes. not at all for drug related stuff. and scamming greedy gamblers is not on my list of things that I want the U.S. jail system to the care of. I have no clue if and to what extend Hayes did steal his customers money. if he did, a fair trial would be ok to call out for.  is there evidence that he did?  

Of course, any criminal trial has a possibility for jail time, but even if it does not, there is a higher burden of proof that governments (including Big bully USA) have in terms of proving someone to be guilty of each and every of the allegations that are alleged.  Governments do not always play fair, yet I do not know enough of the details in this case (and likely NOT too many of us do) in order to be presuming the company or the four indicted individuals to be criminally liable to the extent that those various branches of the USA govt are proclaiming / charging.

Oh look, the CFTC scares all the rats with their coins off of BitMEX, and suddenly all of the barting comes to a halt.

Gee, who woulda thunk it.

A bit early (after a mere few days) to making BTC price movement proclamations - even if you might end up being correct.
 

Much improvement in btc chart since bitmex "happenings"...those f--kers were causing this endless barting-debarting, I strongly suspect.
Is there a potential causation or at least correlation? We shall see in 1 mo.

Sure, could be, but still seems as if it is too soon to be making those kinds of price dynamic causation proclamations, even if barting/debarting were to lessen or disappear completely from here on out.

[nullius]

I was offered sex today, by a 21 year old girl. In exchange for that, I was supposed to advertise some kind of bathroom cleaner to my friends. Of course I declined because I am a person of high moral standards with a strong willpower. Just as strong as Ajax, the super strong bathroom cleaner. Now available scented with lemon or vanilla.

You declined a favourable trade.  It seems that your business sense is no better than your market sense:

I would like to buy Bitcoins at the price of 2013-14 to gain back the lost Coins. If Bitcoin is not possible to be bought than maybe Litecoin? Dogecoin? Please, i need your aid my friends. You are all i have left.

My story is that i want my Coins from Mt. Gox back. It is a must , i wanna get them back or Buy them back at the Stolen Value point.

Not your keys, not your coins.

This time, try keeping your money in your own wallet instead of on a centralized exchange.  This is easy to use, even for beginners, and has good privacy features:  Wasabi Wallet (Tor onion site)

Be your own bank.

PSA.  How many times do we need to say this.  (Royal “we”, and also “every Bitcoiner with even so much as an ounce of sense ‘we’”.)

[eXPHorizon]

I was offered sex today, by a 21 year old girl. In exchange for that, I was supposed to advertise some kind of bathroom cleaner to my friends. Of course I declined because I am a person of high moral standards with a strong willpower. Just as strong as Ajax, the super strong bathroom cleaner. Now available scented with lemon or vanilla.

You declined a favourable trade.  It seems that your business sense is no better than your market sense:

I would like to buy Bitcoins at the price of 2013-14 to gain back the lost Coins. If Bitcoin is not possible to be bought than maybe Litecoin? Dogecoin? Please, i need your aid my friends. You are all i have left.

My story is that i want my Coins from Mt. Gox back. It is a must , i wanna get them back or Buy them back at the Stolen Value point.

Not your keys, not your coins.

This time, try keeping your money in your own wallet instead of on a centralized exchange.  This is easy to use, even for beginners, and has good privacy features:  Wasabi Wallet (Tor onion site)

Be your own bank.

PSA.  How many times do we need to say this.  (Royal “we”, and also “every Bitcoiner with even so much as an ounce of sense ‘we’”.)

I did waste it ? Such a missed opportunity indeed.  Well both of those senses seem to be working fine so i dunno what you are talking about  And yes i wish i could get my coins back so bad...

Thanks for the Wallet tip tho nullius, i appreciate it