Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[bystander]

He's likely on vacation with the rest of the country.

No he's not, he replied to one of my mails basically telling me to shut my mouth, and he's online here all the time. In fact he's online right now. There's no excuses. He got 50K USD from us to provice service in this groupbuy, fuck his 'vacation'. When there's a lot of time pressure (this wednesday Yifu is likely going to send the batches that didn't ask for a refund), and you have chosen to take on a task like this, you better be god damn ready to actually provide your customers with a basic level of customer service.

This includes him safeguarding the god damn refunds before it's too late.

I'm still of the belief he'll do the right thing in time.  As for any liability, if it becomes necessary to pursue relief through legal channels, it could be quite different than pursuing Yifu since this business is based in the US.  Heard that some group buyers are apparently familiar with his other business that he runs during the day, so perhaps they will look into that route as needed.  

[jasinlee]

There is something to be said about Steamboat being the only group buy manager not willing to provide refunds when it seems to be the norm among all others.

I have the impression that the other group buy coordinators don't have as much sunk (unrecoverable) costs in the PCB & assembly as steamboat. Correct?

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just trying to get a fact straight.

True, when you pay an assembly house non refundable deposits you tend to tie up a lot of money. Boxman90, your language and demeanor and constant desire to get everyone whipped into a frenzy is the issue. SB has parts prepped and sitting waiting to be used, so yeah I can understand someone taking their time to do this the smart way. Or we could all rush out and demand refunds. I am sure he is negotiating a deal with yifu as we speak, have some faith and stop trying to push peoples buttons. Take your meds dude.

[Boxman90]

Give the poor man his vacation.

Let me edit that for you:

Give the rich man his vacation.

He's sitting on our money as we speak. Even if it's a 'national holiday', when you're responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be safeguarded by jumping on Yifu's refunds ASAP, you've got an obligation to your investors to do so. I don't give a shit about his holiday. If he gives me full access to the entire operation, i'd more than happily get the refunds sorted ASAP. I'd be working 24/7 for the next few days to make sure everyone has voiced their wishes, and get the refunds going from Yifu. I'd give John K. all my details and proof of residence as a safety. Seriously, I'm not joking. Steamboat, give me access to all your accounts, and I'd sort this for you free of charge.

The problem is, that steamboat holds all the power over our money. You can't just casually walk away from that under the pretence of a "national holiday".

Take a breath and realize that in the greater scheme of things, one day more or less won't matter.

Except it does matter. The apparent deadline for the refunds is this Wednesday, and steamboat has taken no action to arrange any refunds. Does that not worry you? Are you even involved in the group buy?

True, when you pay an assembly house non refundable deposits you tend to tie up a lot of money. Boxman90, your language and demeanor and constant desire to get everyone whipped into a frenzy is the issue. SB has parts prepped and sitting waiting to be used, so yeah I can understand someone taking their time to do this the smart way. Or we could all rush out and demand refunds. I am sure he is negotiating a deal with yifu as we speak, have some faith and stop trying to push peoples buttons. Take your meds dude.

Eh, over 50% of this group buy has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with his assembly service. His assembly service is a separate venue. That he put his profits into that, is his business, not mine, not any of those who are not involved in the assembly line.

I'm not having faith in someone who lacks basic communications towards their customers. I hope he's negotiating with Yifu as we speak, but his remark of "we do not accept refunds atm" bears me great worries. If anything, it tells me he's not even working on refunds at all - the fact that he's not gathering any information on who does and doesn't want a refund supports this assumption.

Also, the money of our chips didn't go to his assembly service - the profits he took from us did. He can get all our chip money back through Yifu, yet he's apparently not prepared to do so.

Also, ad hominem by insinuating I need meds does not strenghten your argument at all.

[hoss]

~popcorn~

[dmcdad]

I'd be working 24/7 for the next few days to make sure everyone has voiced their wishes, and get the refunds going from Yifu. I'd give John K. all my details and proof of residence as a safety. Seriously, I'm not joking. Steamboat, give me access to all your accounts, and I'd sort this for you free of charge.

I hereby vote that we do NOT give access to boxman90 to sort everything out. :-)

[jasinlee]

<general ignorance snipped>

Perhaps we should all get steamboat to call you so he can go over there and hold your hand to make you feel better. You did read the first post right about how you should only invest .....how much?

We chose steamboats group buy because it was expedited and we paid a premium so we would get our boards first. Under a week vs 2-4 weeks for other group buys.

You want your refund, yeah we get it. The rest of us are recalculating based on btc pricing and looking at ROI time shortening significantly.

[Boxman90]

<ad hominem nonsense snipped>

You want your refund, yeah we get it. The rest of us are recalculating based on btc pricing and looking at ROI time shortening significantly.

Oh really? I've seen more refund requests than 'i want my chips' requests since 29th of August. But apparently you know more  

[jasinlee]

<ad hominem nonsense snipped>

You want your refund, yeah we get it. The rest of us are recalculating based on btc pricing and looking at ROI time shortening significantly.

Oh really? I've seen more refund requests than 'i want my chips' requests since 29th of August. But apparently you know more  

Apparently I do, if you check the numbers, they are still heavily on the I want my chips side. I dont think the excel sheet although self appointed has even reached 1/3rd of 1 batch yet.

[ScaryHash]

Anyone remember before boxman90 came on here and started making this personal and unprofessional? Those were the days.

If you want to add to the discussion, at least tell me how I'm wrong then. If you even can.

He's got our money. He's got his 50K USD profits. He's not providing services for it, while all the other group buy organizers ARE. Hell yes, it's getting personal. We're not talking about a few hundred bucks. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, of which several thousand mine. The only one going unprofessional is steamboat, with the increasing amount of time between his posts, and the ongoing stalling from his side.

I'm going to tell you how you're wrong. Let me count the ways:

1) You posted here at 4:29 PM, at 4:38, 5:21, and 5:32. Dude, you need to chill. First of all, it's a holiday weekend. Get away from the computer and go barbecue or something. Stop harassing people.

2) Just because Yifu posts on September 1st, at 12:01 AM that he will give refunds does not make it a done deal.  Yifu has proven that he's dishonorable.

3) If you want to go ahead and get BTC back for your chips, and LOSE the assembly money, you are smoking crack. The assembly service was worth almost as much as the chips  (either in BTC or $$$).

4) You're right, he has our money, my money included. That gives him leverage to do what he thinks is best. You have no leverage, but you have not accepted that fact, which is why you are whining.

5) Steamboat has already given you an update on August 29th. If you do not like the way the group buy is run, then you should have joined another group buy.


I have several thousand into this as well, by the way, so it's not like I don't have anything at stake here. Chill out, man.

*** edit *** You're wrong about the ROI as well, but I won't get into that debate with somebody who is not in a reasonable frame of mind. Go have a drink.

[alfabitcoin]

Agreed, harsh language and panicing lead nowhere. It wont you serve you any good. SB has buyers from all over the world and they will get their boards later then you in US but still fast. Chill out everybody.

[cp1]

I hereby vote that we do NOT give access to boxman90 to sort everything out. :-)

I vote we boot him from the thread by all ignoring him, and then go back to a reasonable conversation.

[Boxman90]

I'm going to tell you how you're wrong. Let me count the ways:

1) You posted here at 4:29 PM, at 4:38, 5:21, and 5:32. Dude, you need to chill. First of all, it's a holiday weekend. Get away from the computer and go barbecue or something. Stop harassing people.

2) Just because Yifu posts on September 1st, at 12:01 AM that he will give refunds does not make it a done deal.  Yifu has proven that he's dishonorable.

3) If you want to go ahead and get BTC back for your chips, and LOSE the assembly money, you are smoking crack. The assembly service was worth almost as much as the chips  (either in BTC or $$$).

4) You're right, he has our money, my money included. That gives him leverage to do what he thinks is best. You have no leverage, but you have not accepted that fact, which is why you are whining.

5) Steamboat has already given you an update on August 29th. If you do not like the way the group buy is run, then you should have joined another group buy.


I have several thousand into this as well, by the way, so it's not like I don't have anything at stake here. Chill out, man.

Me discussing this topic here actively does not exactly prove me wrong :/ I'm not sure where you got that from.

Regarding your point 2, Yifu has already refunded 3 batches in full to SebastianJu, who was quick to act and safeguarded the funds for 3 orders. This is an opportunity that should not be missed.

As for 3, I'm not in for assembly. A lot of others aren't either. I'm not sure how you think the chip groupbuy and steamboats later added assembly services are inherently linked.

4 - have you ever seen the influence of investors in any other company? Yes, normally, they do have influence. Steamboat is misusing his leverage to make sure his assembly service keeps being profitable. You may call it whining, but I'm only voicing my concerns.

Finally 5, steamboat was quick with responses and updates (daily) when he was in the process of gathering our money. All was good then and steamboat was doing a good job - yet he dropped this service like a brick after he gathered all the funds. Does that sound familiar? Did Yifu not do the same? How about BFL?

Steamboat turned this groupbuy into his company, but the fact is that his assembly service is and should be detatched from the chip group buy.


I've said what I needed to say and I'll pursue further actions through other channels. You guys have fun with your endless faith in steamboat. I'll check back after this whole cherade has turned into a disaster.


Edit// also, if you don't want me to reply to you, just ignore me. Not that hard.

[kostagr33k]

Everyone does know that a group by means a Batch of 10,000 chips. As stated earlier, how do you expect a refund, if not even 1/3 of 1 Batch requests so? You can't ask someone to cut something in 1/1000 pieces just to get your piece out. It's an all or nothing refund and I understood that when I joined this batch.

Otherwise, you would have shelled out 700+ BTC to get your own Batch and not try to hedge your bet by getting a few hundred chips only.

[Boxman90]

Everyone does know that a group by means a Batch of 10,000 chips. As stated earlier, how do you expect a refund, if not even 1/3 of 1 Batch requests so? You can't ask someone to cut something in 1/1000 pieces just to get your piece out. It's an all or nothing refund and I understood that when I joined this batch.

Otherwise, you would have shelled out 700+ BTC to get your own Batch and not try to hedge your bet by getting a few hundred chips only.

It's because steamboat has not asked his customers for an opinion. A large part of the buyers does not check this thread regularly.

SebastianJu and Zefir tacked this by mailing the entire customer database, asking if they want to keep the chips or want a refund. steamboat could have done the same, just to gather the information on where we stand in this group-buy, but has chosen not to do so, for reasons unknown, but likely to do with his assembly service which will maybe turn out non-profitable by such descision.

The user-initiative of the refund google-docs is admirable, but only a fraction of the users have seen his post. If steamboat were to just mail the database, he'd get an instant picture of what the customer wants. Both SebastianJu and Zefir have confirmed that over half of their customers wanted a refund on the chips - over 30000 chips in each group buy, meaning a full 3 batches have had refund requests. It won't be much different in this group buy, other than that steamboat has failed to communicate with his customers individually about this matter - like Zefir and SebastianJu did.

[dmcdad]

Everyone does know that a group by means a Batch of 10,000 chips. As stated earlier, how do you expect a refund, if not even 1/3 of 1 Batch requests so?

While I am patiently waiting for SB to post an update, I do still want an option for folks to request a refund. If 10K+ chip refunds are requested, then he should put in a request for the refund.

Don't let the low percentages (1/3) fool you -- several folks (myself included) are waiting on the sideline to see what SB offers in regards to assembly refunds before we decide if we want chip refunds. There just isn't enough information yet for us to decide. Once we have that information I think there will be more than 10K chip refund requests.

[dmcdad]

Boxman90: you bring up good points about SB needing to get the process in gear regarding how many customers want chip refunds. If you can chill out on the scammer accusations and show a modicum of patience and understanding of the complexity of the situation, I think your arguments will resonate quite a bit better and you'll get less people hitting the ignore button which definitely doesn't do any good for getting your voice heard. My 2 cents.

[cardcomm]

For those who aren't aware, today is Labor Day in the US -- a national holiday.  It's a three day weekend, and the traditional end of summer, so most people take a break from reality and go do something fun. Businesses almost uniformly close, except maybe for retail shops.  I wouldn't blame Steamboat at all if he's taking the long weekend to spend time with family or do something non-business related.  Give the poor man his vacation.  I'm sure he'll reply when he gets back and catches up with what's been happening in the interim.  (And yes, I'm guilty of peeking in on work-related stuff during my vacations too, but that doesn't mean I reply to every single message and request that came in while I'm away -- I maybe answer one or two, then do the rest when I get back to work after the holiday.)

And if you're upset that someone took a day off on a national freaking holiday, well, heads up -- you're not the center of the universe, and your concerns, no matter how major they seem to you, are not shared by everyone else.  Take a breath and realize that in the greater scheme of things, one day more or less won't matter.  We all knew the risks going in. The most obvious and brutal risk was the one where we lose absolutely every penny invested. That risk still exists. I don't think antagonizing the one person who could mitigate it is a wise move.

I'm sure everyone here is aware that it's Labor Day in the US. It's been posted repeatedly. KyrosKrane posted a fairly idealized version of what happens on Labor Day.

True, many small business are closed. A lot of people DO get the day off. But essentially EVERY retailer is open. I.T. workers continue to maintain systems and handle support calls. Auto repair shops are open. This is typically the hottest weekend of the year where I live, and the A/C repair companies do a booming business. I've been on call and worked on Labor Day weekend more times that I can count, and I wasn't exactly "unskilled labor".

The point here is yes, it's a holiday weekend. But it's NOT Christmas or Thanksgiving. WORK DOES STILL GET DONE. Especially time critical, unforeseen work. You know, the EXACT thing that is happening now.

I don't believe for a second that Steamboat's lack of response is due to the fact that he's "taking the weekend off". If so, it's completely inappropriate. The culture in the US is that if work NEEDS to be done on a vacation weekend, IT GETS DONE. PERIOD. Especially in technical and IT fields.

Sorry, I know that's a long winded way to say that the "Labor Day Weekend" excuse does not impress me in the least.

It's obvious at this point that Steamboat is scrambling to find a way to maintain his profit though all this, and not lose his ass. I guess I'm missing the logic of why he should face no risk while the group buyers face ALL the risk.

It's been alleged here that Steamboat has stated through email "We are not accepting refund requests at this time.". This needs to be addressed by Steamboat NOW.

I don't want to believe that Steamboat will leave us hanging here. But the frequency of his posts have been inversely proportional to the amount of money he's collected from this group buy. It's easy to start imagining that he's in personal damage control mode at the expense of the group buyers. I don't necessarily believe that - I don't WANT to believe it. But I'm increasingly faced with no other explanation.

I seriously expected to get up this morning and find a well thought out post by Steamboat, detailing our course of action. I can't tell you how disappointed I am to find no such post. This situation had gotten WAY out of hand, and I find the lack of timely updates here intolerable!

Nobody likes what's transpired here. Least of all Steamboat I'm sure. But it's time to "man up", make some decisions, and keep us informed. And if people want their chips refunded, I believe Steamboat is obligated to do so. To do otherwise would simply invite future lawsuits agains Steamboat himself, alleging that he failed to take proper steps to mitigate damages.

[cpengr]

<ad hominem nonsense snipped>

You want your refund, yeah we get it. The rest of us are recalculating based on btc pricing and looking at ROI time shortening significantly.

Oh really? I've seen more refund requests than 'i want my chips' requests since 29th of August. But apparently you know more  

Apparently I do, if you check the numbers, they are still heavily on the I want my chips side. I dont think the excel sheet although self appointed has even reached 1/3rd of 1 batch yet.

jasinlee, good point about the spreadsheet, however I don't think it fully supports the claim that people are "heavily on the I want my chips side". It's an unofficial poll, just to serve as a registry of interest (if I understand correctly).

1. Some people may not bother, on account of it being unofficial.
2. Others may not want to post their transaction IDs and stake publicly.
3. There were no explicit options for "I definitely want my chips" or "I'm waiting for steamboat" or "I want the chips only if they're delivered before XX/YY date", so there is no way to distinguish between those.
4. Isn't the percentage of buyers actively following this thread also unknown?
5. It also doesn't speak to the funds already paid for PCB & assembly at all, and steamboat hasn't yet clarified what's gong to happen with this. It's quite reasonable for those who have paid to wait to respond until they understand the full scope of their options.

In summary, AFAIK you may be right, but that isn't proof.

[Boxman90]

+1 cardcomm. I think you might have worded it better than I did.

Here's the exact mail steamboat sent me:

Good evening [my first name],

We are working on the refund situation and will update the thread when we have more information. We are not accepting refund requests at this time. Please show courtesy and respect when posting in our thread, messaging, or emailing us.

Have a wonderful day,

Steamboat

This email was received approximately 20 hours ago. Draw your own conclusions.

[ibminer]

I would agree to these points:

-By now, Steamboat should have provided a way for people to officially voice there opinions about whether or not they want a refund (obviously this would only be for the chips, as SB has stated so far). Random voices on this thread and the google doc are not official... but he should provide people enough time to make a decision, and should leave himself with enough time to determine how and if he needs to submit a refund request to Yifu.

-Steamboat was MUCH more active on this forum before and during collecting money. Not only was he posting here quite a bit, but was all over the forum participating.  Once the batches slowed down, he did change his activity level and even the way he was responding. Especially after LSD came - IMO he took a much less personal tone and more of a professional one... and posts slowed down/stopped across the board.  This worries me, but not enough for me to call him a scammer or even distrust him at this point. I initially chalked it up to him being busy getting everything ready, but it is my understanding they are ready now and have been for a little while... so I was hoping he would return to the SB that I first saw.  Hopefully the mafia hasn't gotten him    

-If I have to work - all of you need to get your asses to work... National holiday my ass!      SB is NOT taking the weekend off, he is here, and he is watching... just no clue what he is thinking until he posts.



EDIT:  BTW - I am not getting anything done at work because of this stupid forum!