[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool

[fanatic26]

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

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[d57heinz]

genesis-mining mined with hardware that wouldn't find blocks
250BTC or more was lost by all the miners due to this
genesis-mining should have returned the BTC the pool paid them, for mining with hardware that wouldn't find blocks, and that should have been distributed to the miners

slush hid this ... I wonder why

Thanks Kano for always providing transparency.

Best Regards
d57heinz

[Erumara]

genesis-mining mined with hardware that wouldn't find blocks
250BTC or more was lost by all the miners due to this
genesis-mining should have returned the BTC the pool paid them, for mining with hardware that wouldn't find blocks, and that should have been distributed to the miners

slush hid this ... I wonder why

Little odd to see you in here spreading FUD, thought a little better of you frankly. Slush *to my knowledge* was perfectly up front when the block-withholding was confirmed. Insinuating he somehow "owes" the miners due to a bad actor withholding blocks is a bit of a strange way of looking at it.
Utmost of respect to the work you do, but I have left the arena WIDE open for someone to provide the evidence behind these accusations and there is yet to be someone willing or able to provide it.

Thanks Kano for always providing transparency.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Please send me the links to this "transparency", all I can see on Kano's site is the same as has always been there, the most basic of information you could possibly provide. At least I can count on you to reliably show up and spread nonsense regularly, brightens my day to see you back in here, with the same lack of any useful knowledge or information.

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

So I take it you're simply too busy to "do the math"? Or are you simply too "elite" to share your results with the peasants?
Are you really insinuating Slush is taking 10% off the top? This statement could hardly make less sense. You're talking about the theft of ~18BTC/day without a trace, that's a massive accusation to be coming from a Jr. Member who didn't bother including anything to back up such a damaging claim.

I have done the math, every one of my payouts has been on time and 100% accounted for, block for block. Still waiting for someone to show evidence to the contrary.

[kano]

genesis-mining mined with hardware that wouldn't find blocks
250BTC or more was lost by all the miners due to this
genesis-mining should have returned the BTC the pool paid them, for mining with hardware that wouldn't find blocks, and that should have been distributed to the miners

slush hid this ... I wonder why

Little odd to see you in here spreading FUD, thought a little better of you frankly. Slush *to my knowledge* was perfectly up front when the block-withholding was confirmed. Insinuating he somehow "owes" the miners due to a bad actor withholding blocks is a bit of a strange way of looking at it.
Utmost of respect to the work you do, but I have left the arena WIDE open for someone to provide the evidence behind these accusations and there is yet to be someone willing or able to provide it.
...

lulz the pool luck was well beyond bad in December ... for over 220 blocks ... way obvious that something was wrong back then
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

As for 'owing' ... well the company that caused it is known, but he hid that detail and no one here I bet even knew it before I posted that.

But ... he let them off scot-free to keep the other miner's BTC and hid their name ... or he didn't let them off scot-free and kept the BTC that was returned.
Which one? No idea. Doesn't matter which, both are inappropriate ...

[philipma1957]

genesis-mining mined with hardware that wouldn't find blocks
250BTC or more was lost by all the miners due to this
genesis-mining should have returned the BTC the pool paid them, for mining with hardware that wouldn't find blocks, and that should have been distributed to the miners

slush hid this ... I wonder why

Little odd to see you in here spreading FUD, thought a little better of you frankly. Slush *to my knowledge* was perfectly up front when the block-withholding was confirmed. Insinuating he somehow "owes" the miners due to a bad actor withholding blocks is a bit of a strange way of looking at it.
Utmost of respect to the work you do, but I have left the arena WIDE open for someone to provide the evidence behind these accusations and there is yet to be someone willing or able to provide it.

Thanks Kano for always providing transparency.

Best Regards
d57heinz

Please send me the links to this "transparency", all I can see on Kano's site is the same as has always been there, the most basic of information you could possibly provide. At least I can count on you to reliably show up and spread nonsense regularly, brightens my day to see you back in here, with the same lack of any useful knowledge or information.

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

So I take it you're simply too busy to "do the math"? Or are you simply too "elite" to share your results with the peasants?
Are you really insinuating Slush is taking 10% off the top? This statement could hardly make less sense. You're talking about the theft of ~18BTC/day without a trace, that's a massive accusation to be coming from a Jr. Member who didn't bother including anything to back up such a damaging claim.

I have done the math, every one of my payouts has been on time and 100% accounted for, block for block. Still waiting for someone to show evidence to the contrary.

while the coins mined have been paid what is the lifetime luck for the pool?

what is the 25 block luck?
what is the 50 block luck?
what is the 100 block luck?
what is the 250 block luck?
what is the 500 block luck?
what is the 1000 block luck?

A simple chart like this one below

Block Statistics

Description   Time         MeanTx%    Diff%   Mean%   CDF      Luck%
Last 5 Blocks   1.9days   101.3%   145.85%   145.85%   0.8520   68.57%
Last 10 Blocks   2.6days   101.6%   100.55%   100.55%   0.5489   99.46%
Last 25 Blocks   6.1days   101.7%   96.32%   96.32%   0.4526   103.82%
Last 50 Blocks   13.2days   101.4%   95.15%   95.39%   0.3883   104.83%
Last 100 Blocks   27.9days   101.4%   109.43%   110.01%   0.8419   90.90%
Last 250 Blocks   8.4wks   101.3%   93.43%   93.00%   0.1331   107.52%
Last 500 Blocks   18.9wks   101.2%   92.26%   91.08%   0.0206   109.80%

All - Last 921 Blocks   87.0wks   100.9%   93.56%   94.19%   0.0369   106.17%


I say this because  if the pool's luck lifetime is 90%  who cares if the guy pays all the coins.
Way is the pool down 10% lifetime in luck?

In the interest of honesty open discussion  will some one please show us slush luck stats.

in the format above?

 I would say all pools over 100 blocks made should use this format above to clearly show luck.
Why

 "Luck is the residue of design"

Branch Ricky  the first general manager to hire a black manager leaguer Jackie Robinson.

Most people think it just bad luck when a pool has a slow mining streak.  That assume all factors are perfectly equal.
The  256 algorithm is an equal factor that is it.

The servers.
The internet connections
The ddos protection
The pools coding
The Pool ability to detect bad miners doing a with holding attack.

Those are not equal  and will be reflected in the pools luck stats.

 More in the long term  100 block 250 block counts.

So does anyone want to make that list of block luck for slush?

[jonnybravo0311]

lulz the pool luck was well beyond bad in December ... for over 220 blocks ... way obvious that something was wrong back then
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

As for 'owing' ... well the company that caused it is known, but he hid that detail and no one here I bet even knew it before I posted that.

But ... he let them off scot-free to keep the other miner's BTC and hid their name ... or he didn't let them off scot-free and kept the BTC that was returned.
Which one? No idea. Doesn't matter which, both are inappropriate ...

I for one did not know it was Genesis Mining.  Wow.  I thought their gear was supplied by SPTech - I remember the promo and announcement between the two, and the links to buy contracts right on Spondoolies site.

[organofcorti]

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this?

[sbtctalk]

But to slush's credit, he was the one who designed the stratum protocol.

[Erumara]

lulz the pool luck was well beyond bad in December ... for over 220 blocks ... way obvious that something was wrong back then
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

As for 'owing' ... well the company that caused it is known, but he hid that detail and no one here I bet even knew it before I posted that.

But ... he let them off scot-free to keep the other miner's BTC and hid their name ... or he didn't let them off scot-free and kept the BTC that was returned.
Which one? No idea. Doesn't matter which, both are inappropriate ...

I'm just trying to make sure I understand exactly what you are trying to say, so despite the fact that Genesis Mining (I'll take your word for it, yet again still waiting for the evidence) was ACTUALLY providing hashpower and expending electricity, and that hashpower was not producing blocks either due to a bad actor intentionally withholding blocks or ?improper setup? of their software.

In this scenario:

Genesis lost revenue (Not as much as they should have)
Slush lost revenue (Can't take 2% of blocks that aren't found)
Slush's miners lost revenue (On a user to user basis it is a minor amount of BTC, but not nothing)

Where exactly is this BTC that should be redistributed? Lacking irrefutable evidence that the entity in question was withholding on purpose, I would never expect a pool operator to go reassigning funds.
Intentional or accidental the only thing you can POSSIBLY divine from this is that pool mining still has room for improvement, and improvements have been made.

End Of Story.

As a pool operator you should fully realize that FUD and rumors are the most powerful tools in the community, I have yet to see any evidence come from anybody painting Slush as a bad actor. I've lost track of how many times I have left an open invitation for these facts to be set forth and I am constantly met with more FUD, and more conspiracy theories.

Frankly between users claiming to use Kano and you yourself perpetrating what, by all appearances, is a smear campaign against your competitor, you have only cemented my decision NOT to use Kano. While I would not hold a pool accountable to it's users actions, your presence here with no more verifiable information than the rest of them has shaken the respect I had for what I thought was a stand-up operation.

[d57heinz]

If someone takes the time to do the math on all that information they freely share, they might see where the problem lies. Like an almost exactly 10% less payout that expected over the life of the pool...

I don't see anything like that when I do the stats. How exactly are you calculating this?

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.html
well there is the post that you bring it to attention.. but that was only after we got shafted from slush.. here is a look at slush stats when the shit hit the fan..  There is a whole sluice of issues slush had with the relay network then a ddos for allowing vote to 8 mb  then the block withholder.. All that happen back to back.>   

Per your guide..

http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/01/january-17th-2016-mining-pool-statistics.html

i dont have time atm to dig any further.. all pools need to show like phil said. all blocks and then a gradual decrease to last 5 or 10.  Kano sets an example how simple is best... That lost btc can never be replaced unless the Genesis mining comes forth and wants to save their reputation.. Ive already tweeted to them >> but of course no reply.. Something not taught in school and apparently not by parents is how to own up to your mistakes.. Its turning this world into a pile of crap if you ask me.

Best Regards
d57heinz

BTW.. Kano i didnt know that it was genesis.. i have given you shit in past but that is before i realized the pattern of honesty and transparency from you that is so lacking in this industry.. this space needs more like you for sure.. THankful for that.   

[d57heinz]

But to slush's credit, he was the one who designed the stratum protocol.

Yes we have things to be thankful for that slush did for the community. This is about owning up to the mistake and moving on. But we cant expect that of him.. he has to want to do that.. The fact that he would rather protect one interest rather then the community says a lot to me.. I would have taken it much easier had he just been honest(which i knew in my gut from day one he wasnt being) then things would have smoothed over much faster.> Instead you got the latter.  He wishes this would die and regrets sticking up for genesis. Must have had some kind of back door deal in order for slush to take such grief that he wouldnt just quickly let the community know who it was..   Should make one question what is going on for sure.  Slush isnt a community man anymore  so if you are looking for that feel then kano is def the place to be...

EDIT  ALSO one must question why genesis with 10 ph didnt just mine on its own solo.. Im sure they knew it didnt find blocks.. More unanswered questions.


Best Regards
d57heinz

[jonnybravo0311]

EDIT  ALSO one must question why genesis with 10 ph didnt just mine on its own solo.. Im sure they knew it didnt find blocks.. More unanswered questions.


Best Regards
d57heinz

Pretty sure you answered your own question there...

[d57heinz]

EDIT  ALSO one must question why genesis with 10 ph didnt just mine on its own solo.. Im sure they knew it didnt find blocks.. More unanswered questions.


Best Regards
d57heinz

Pretty sure you answered your own question there...

Thanks  fixed lol.. 

[Erumara]

Wow, wall of text!

I appreciate you linking those organofcorti articles, I believe I had a look at those back when I was doing my research. Makes a lot more sense 5 months later!

So what I understand is this:

Earlier this year, Slushpool experienced a period of exceptionally bad luck. This was later found to be a product of block withholding. Intentional? Accidental? Did Slush for some reason collude with the miner (alleged to be Genesis Mining)? These questions sadly remain unanswered.

I am not against people throwing in their opinions, but I refuse to watch a thread fill up with FUD and misinformation simply because people (who largely were entirely unaffected by this incident) seem to take a personal issue with Slush not releasing information that may or may not exist. So let's make some scenarios.

A: Slush colluded with the miner and personally covered up any tracks that could lead to the miner for the purpose of
B: The miner intentionally withheld blocks as a form of attack against Slushpool and it's users while making themselves difficult to track.
C: The miner's software was improperly set-up, and this somehow resulted in valid blocks not being submitted.

If A is true, then we need a mob. A big one. Torches, pitchforks, biblethumping. The whole nine yards. As a user I will be front of the pack. The evidence submitted so far to prove A is true is included below:

[evidence]
[/evidence]


If B is true, and Slush holds irrefutable evidence this was the case, as well as this person's information, it should be released to the public to prevent further withholding attacks. Anyone who understands mining knows this is futile because their identity can be easily obfusticated and thusly there is NO POINT releasing this information outside of exactly what he did provide, which was informing people that it happened and making improvements to minimize future vulnerability.

[Most likely scenario]
If B is true and Slush does NOT hold irrefutable evidence, I stand by them 100% for not releasing information that amounts to FUD.
[/Most likely scenario]


If C is true the whole argument is pointless, Slush is under no obligation to release user information to ANYONE without concrete proof that they INTEND TO cause harm to another pool.
I stand by that 100%, no DOX without PROOF, I would make it a very personal issue if I screwed myself and my fellow users out of BTC due to a setup error and had a pool operator publicly release ANY of my information.

You say you've directly accused Genesis of being the bad actor, and doing so purposefully, without any evidence?
There's a way to describe that.

It's called LIBEL and DEFAMATION, a situation Slush clearly steered well away from no matter what the facts. Good move.


Regards,

Erumara

[kano]

...
It's called LIBEL and DEFAMATION, a situation Slush clearly steered well away from no matter what the facts. Good move.
...

Lulz, no it's not, stop pretending to be a lawyer and go ask one.
The only "LIBEL and DEFAMATION" I see here is you suggesting that Genesis may have done it on purpose ...

It's their untested software that caused everyone on the pool to lose well over 10% of their BTC while Genesis was mining.

...
Slush's miners lost revenue (On a user to user basis it is a minor amount of BTC, but not nothing)
...

... well over 10% is minor ... right ... ... ...

[Erumara]

genesis-mining mined with hardware that wouldn't find blocks
250BTC or more was lost by all the miners due to this
genesis-mining should have returned the BTC the pool paid them, for mining with hardware that wouldn't find blocks, and that should have been distributed to the miners

slush hid this ... I wonder why

That would be you making that insinuation, not me.
And if it WAS Genesis and the mistake WAS in error, than this entire topic is still entirely pointless as it doesn't reflect on Slush in any way shape or form.
Also, where does 250BTC come from? I assume you have the facts to back up this number.

If C is true the whole argument is pointless, Slush is under no obligation to release user information to ANYONE without concrete proof that they INTEND TO cause harm to another pool.
I stand by that 100%, no DOX without PROOF, I would make it a very personal issue if I screwed myself and my fellow users out of BTC due to a setup error and had a pool operator publicly release ANY of my information.

... well over 10% is minor ... right ... ... ...

Where does this 10% come from? This is the third time I've seen 10% pop up and still the nothingth time anyone has backed it up with facts.

[kano]

... well over 10% is minor ... right ... ... ...

Where does this 10% come from? This is the third time I've seen 10% pop up and still the nothingth time anyone has backed it up with facts.

Oh well, try reading my posts again ... you may find it there ...

[Erumara]

I'm not about to put a bounty on this information, but if anyone HAD such evidence and refused to share it, that would make them a far shittier person than any pool operator scamming their members.

Thanks for the FUD

[kano]

...
Also, where does 250BTC come from? I assume you have the facts to back up this number.
...

Oh I missed this one
Heh, so you don't even know where that number comes from.
Wow, you really need to understand the statistics of pool mining before going off on a rant about "No Facts"

[bittalc1]

...
Also, where does 250BTC come from? I assume you have the facts to back up this number.
...

Oh I missed this one
Heh, so you don't even know where that number comes from.
Wow, you really need to understand the statistics of pool mining before going off on a rant about "No Facts"

Burn