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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3853620 times)
slush
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February 17, 2016, 09:18:22 PM
 #21701

Yes, we've been in touch with OOC about that incident; we realized something is going on at about the same time when he made his analysis on which he based his article.

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slush
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February 17, 2016, 09:29:51 PM
 #21702

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

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February 17, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
 #21703

Ill just leave this here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/slushpool/comments/45aed4/no_one_should_mine_in_this_pool/

www.bcmonster.com Bitcoin Mining Pool - [PPLNS / pays TX]  / Easy Live Dashboard / Help us get up to 1PH. Donate: 1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
kano
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February 17, 2016, 11:25:42 PM
 #21704

Well many users here have complained about it for quite some time.

However, it certainly didn't take any effort to see there was a problem when I looked at it 41 days ago Tongue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
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February 18, 2016, 06:03:59 PM
 #21705

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Hello Slush,
Thank you for that but maybe you have most important things to do,... like auto-detecting block withholding for exemple!

If I'm not mistaken it was you who designed the stratum protocol?

I'm not very knowledgeable of how it works, but I asked myself the following question:
Is it possible to send a job that has already won a block to all the miner (the same work) for example once a day to check that every miners solve the solution. it only cost a few seconds but would help to find block withholding problems?


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February 18, 2016, 07:07:39 PM
 #21706

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Hello Slush,
Thank you for that but maybe you have most important things to do,... like auto-detecting block withholding for exemple!

If I'm not mistaken it was you who designed the stratum protocol?

I'm not very knowledgeable of how it works, but I asked myself the following question:
Is it possible to send a job that has already won a block to all the miner (the same work) for example once a day to check that every miners solve the solution. it only cost a few seconds but would help to find block withholding problems?




This isn't possible.  In Stratum, each miner has a unique ExtraNonce1 value which means giving every miner the exact same job (which is what Stratum does already) will result in different hashes from every miner.  There is no way around this, since if  you added a feature to Stratum that forced an ExtraNonce1 change for work verification, the withholder would KNOW they're being tested.

R.I.P. BTC Guild, 2011 - 2015.
BTC Guild Forum Thread
pekatete
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February 18, 2016, 07:30:20 PM
 #21707

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Nice one captain, and the UI keeps getting better! Looking forward to the proof stats coming up, and great job nipping that block with-holding bug ... better late than never I say. Oh! before I forget, the pool luck across all stats looks brilliant too .... keep up the good work.

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February 18, 2016, 07:35:19 PM
 #21708


This isn't possible.  In Stratum, each miner has a unique ExtraNonce1 value which means giving every miner the exact same job (which is what Stratum does already) will result in different hashes from every miner.  There is no way around this, since if  you added a feature to Stratum that forced an ExtraNonce1 change for work verification, the withholder would KNOW they're being tested.

Thank you for your answer
I suspected a little it was not so easy!
Remains a statistical analysis, but the scale of a pool, it may get a lot of warnings, only the larger miners will be effectively been verified.

d57heinz
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February 19, 2016, 02:23:20 PM
 #21709

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Hello Slush,
Thank you for that but maybe you have most important things to do,... like auto-detecting block withholding for exemple!

If I'm not mistaken it was you who designed the stratum protocol?

I'm not very knowledgeable of how it works, but I asked myself the following question:
Is it possible to send a job that has already won a block to all the miner (the same work) for example once a day to check that every miners solve the solution. it only cost a few seconds but would help to find block withholding problems?




This isn't possible.  In Stratum, each miner has a unique ExtraNonce1 value which means giving every miner the exact same job (which is what Stratum does already) will result in different hashes from every miner.  There is no way around this, since if  you added a feature to Stratum that forced an ExtraNonce1 change for work verification, the withholder would KNOW they're being tested.

WELL thats great in my eyes.. Then we narrow down who it is.. lock down creating new users so they cant keep swapping users and perform the test every two weeks or less.. If im going to lose 30% earnings for 4 months in a row then i think some countermeasure is needed.. I dont mind throwing away a few seconds of mining to test this theory.. Personally i think there is nefarious reasons why this hasn't been implemented Already and i don't know why you would oppose this eleuthria.. Since we know your pool was obviously victim to it before it shut down.. If i remember right it was nearing 80 % as well and dropping..   these miners need caught their ips made public and lets work on getting this resolved.. I know that you can make this work and send old block solutions to the miners to test them for withholding.. If a miner drops off when the tests are performed they are flagged as suspect then they are tested even harder.  Till they get with the program or they are permanently banned.. I think with this becoming a big issue and the hw becoming more efficient making this attack easier and less costly we have to get something in place..  Maybe the reason this hasnt been done will be used in the future to screw all the public pools and force everyone solo or die.  Lets work together .. stop the bickering of my pools better then yours and come together as a whole and lets try to fix this.

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d57heinz


EDIT  and the community would prefer you kept quiet on whether you got it to work or not.. No need to let the attacker know he is being watched.. THATS how you get it done.. Dont update the source code till after you have "tested" it Wink Wink

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
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February 19, 2016, 03:10:24 PM
 #21710

@Slush

Im waiting for you to come clean on the exact brand and firmware/software of miners that was performing the attack.. What i find more plausible is that the attacker who was at least 10 PH was using a proxy with modified code.. And i feel with the amount of FB post i sent you and the amount of posts here in the last five months.  You need to come clean on what the hell really happened..I feel that after your updates to the server in sept of 2015 you got something configured wrong!.. that's my gut feeling. And we were mining into the wind for a good long time. For the longest time bitcoinity.org was showing an unknown miner and i spoke about it several pages back here but this miner wasnt finding blocks.. by looking at the blockchain there was no unknown blocks yet this miner was mining at 30 ph at times.. i think this was the block withholder idk (looking here you can see the unknown is now gone  was at top of the line graph http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/hashrate/7d?c=m&t=a )  if it would have been one miner you should have caught it way sooner since they never solved any blocks for months and they have to be over 10 PH. So you had to do some deep analysis on the server only to find your error in code or whatever..  I find it interesting now that you "fixed" your issue your now mining larger blocks as well.> So something entailed you restarting things.   I honestly don't feel your being upfront on the true nature of what was wrong for over 4 months.. Plus the dead silence didn't help that factor in the least.  So to come to find out your doing website enhancements instead of worrying about the health of the pool is troublesome to me(again makes me think that it was your issue and you really wish this would just die).  I lost a couple btc to this fiasco and don't expect ill ever see it.. I cant imagine the losses incurred by the larger miners..

So for transparency sake.. lets get this info

Miner brand
software and firmware version  (so that others can fix this as well since it wouldn't be just one guys miners it would be all made by that company)
?
Maybe some of the back and forth emails with the "unintentional" Roll Eyes attacker!.. more so some of the info used to fix the issue with his miners.. 

I feel that if you implemented a way to check for block withholding in stratum protocol as an optional bit that would go a long way to remedying your handling in this Major issue

Anything else you can give would be appreciated.. Im chalking it up to lesson learned.. I knew that when a guy gets quiet its usually for a good damn reason!. Seen it too many times just in btc alone.. Moreso than not.  Undecided

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
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February 19, 2016, 08:08:48 PM
 #21711

Happy to see the pool finding more blocks now .

u can't just ask for identity of the withholder man ...

just hope it will not restart with another firmware or what else !

just lets monitoring the stats thats all we could do to detect shit

and sorry for bad english ...

and slush nice new design , better  =)

something u could implement is a 'sound' when a block is found , it will be nice ( like mario coin blocks or something like that ^^ )

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February 20, 2016, 01:54:40 AM
 #21712

glad its now sorted and the day % is now %192  just found 2 blocks within 10 mins SmileySmiley
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February 20, 2016, 02:44:47 AM
 #21713

Rain on SLUSH yeah! I like the new design! Good job! Keep coming with the improvements!
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February 20, 2016, 01:32:09 PM
 #21714

Happy to see the pool finding more blocks now .

u can't just ask for identity of the withholder man ...

just hope it will not restart with another firmware or what else !

just lets monitoring the stats thats all we could do to detect shit

and sorry for bad english ...

and slush nice new design , better  =)

something u could implement is a 'sound' when a block is found , it will be nice ( like mario coin blocks or something like that ^^ )



I can and did!!!  He needs to at the very least come with the hardware if this is even a credible story.. Still no comment.. like i said if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.> Only a fool would continue to mine here. Just my two bits anyway.. If he is lying about this what will come in the future that he will hide.. 

Slush you need to come out with the type of miner and firmware to make this story remotely credible. Until then i have my thoughts as to what really happened.. Just contiue to stick your head in the sand.. It appears your miners are more naive than i first thought.. Ehh to each their own i guess.

best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
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February 20, 2016, 02:04:18 PM
 #21715

I can and did!!!  He needs to at the very least come with the hardware if this is even a credible story.. Still no comment.. like i said if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.> Only a fool would continue to mine here. Just my two bits anyway.. If he is lying about this what will come in the future that he will hide..  

Slush you need to come out with the type of miner and firmware to make this story remotely credible. Until then i have my thoughts as to what really happened.. Just contiue to stick your head in the sand.. It appears your miners are more naive than i first thought.. Ehh to each their own i guess.

best Regards
d57heinz

Nonsense! The only thing that quacks like a duck in all this, and thus is a duck is yourself. If a fool is described as one that mines at a pool with above average luck (198%, 117% and 110% for 1 day, 7 days and 30 days respectively), then whoever does not mine there, or advises not to mine there, must be an accomplished idiot.

In all this, bear in mind that some pools piggy-back on others to improve their luck and lure miners to their pools, and some operators have gone on record to detail their methods of sabotaging other pools that piggyback onto them thus you can not rule out the very real possibility that some pool operator targets another with a block withholding attack, simply to suppress that pool's luck and lure miners to their pools.

I actually believe slush gave a cover story for the block with-holding attack and the real culprit is another pool. Saying that, I have every confidence in slush's ability to handle this better than any other pool operator on planet bitcoin. Pool mining is about trusting the pool operator and slush being the pioneer pool (and stratum protocol architect) can not put his reputation out to hang over a 4 month block with-holding attack by misleading miners. If anything, slush holds the miner's best interests to the forefront in everything that he does, and questioning that should raise more questions about intentions.

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February 20, 2016, 06:57:38 PM
 #21716

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

To me this is a smaller scale cryptsy event that just happened, where miners were NOT PAID their BTC, yet you people seem to still happily mine here. Carry on with your pools, I know I will certainly never attempt to earn any BTC here ever again and make sure no family member nor friend does so either.  

www.bcmonster.com Bitcoin Mining Pool - [PPLNS / pays TX]  / Easy Live Dashboard / Help us get up to 1PH. Donate: 1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
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February 20, 2016, 07:41:09 PM
 #21717

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

To me this is a smaller scale cryptsy event that just happened, where miners were NOT PAID their BTC, yet you people seem to still happily mine here. Carry on with your pools, I know I will certainly never attempt to earn any BTC here ever again and make sure no family member nor friend does so either.  

You profess your ignorance at will. To be able to launch a block with-holding attack worthy of the tag requires more than the single solitary miner that you believe was responsible. And why wouldn't anyone want to mine at a pool with pool luck of, as we speak, 216%, 117% and 110% for the day, week and month respectively?

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February 20, 2016, 07:49:43 PM
 #21718

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

To me this is a smaller scale cryptsy event that just happened, where miners were NOT PAID their BTC, yet you people seem to still happily mine here. Carry on with your pools, I know I will certainly never attempt to earn any BTC here ever again and make sure no family member nor friend does so either.  

You profess your ignorance at will. To be able to launch a block with-holding attack worthy of the tag requires more than the single solitary miner that you believe was responsible. And why wouldn't anyone want to mine at a pool with pool luck of, as we speak, 216%, 117% and 110% for the day, week and month respectively?

Like I said, if you believe there is nothing hidden, then keep mining here. Fact of the matter is BTC was stolen here no matter which way you slice it. BTC was withheld from its miners. Any payouts never happened. The same exact thing happened to cryptsy, and they went under, slush did not, why? Because of their brilliant PR campaigns with favorable articles strategically published immediately after the withholdings came bubbling up in this forum. Also their paid google advertisements have them pop up first for the casual miner when they search for bitcoin mining pool and the like. There is your ignorance.

www.bcmonster.com Bitcoin Mining Pool - [PPLNS / pays TX]  / Easy Live Dashboard / Help us get up to 1PH. Donate: 1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
pekatete
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February 20, 2016, 08:20:34 PM
 #21719

Like I said, if you believe there is nothing hidden, then keep mining here. Fact of the matter is BTC was stolen here no matter which way you slice it. BTC was withheld from its miners. Any payouts never happened. The same exact thing happened to cryptsy, and they went under, slush did not, why? Because of their brilliant PR campaigns with favorable articles strategically published immediately after the withholdings came bubbling up in this forum. Also their paid google advertisements have them pop up first for the casual miner when they search for bitcoin mining pool and the like. There is your ignorance.
Your conspiracy theories are just that. As far as I am concerned, everything at slushpool is above board. The block with-holding attack can not be blamed on slush whatever crede you proffess to as the attack can happen to any pool, more so to a successfull one like slush.

All that needed to be said about the attack by the team at slushpool, to my reckoning, has been said. And true to their word, pool luck since has been above average, even skirting above the levels before the attack. The remnants of the conversation are mainly geared towards getting the gullible to switch to lesser pools, but nothing more of substance.

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February 20, 2016, 11:30:56 PM
 #21720

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

To me this is a smaller scale cryptsy event that just happened, where miners were NOT PAID their BTC, yet you people seem to still happily mine here. Carry on with your pools, I know I will certainly never attempt to earn any BTC here ever again and make sure no family member nor friend does so either.  

You profess your ignorance at will. To be able to launch a block with-holding attack worthy of the tag requires more than the single solitary miner that you believe was responsible. And why wouldn't anyone want to mine at a pool with pool luck of, as we speak, 216%, 117% and 110% for the day, week and month respectively?

Like I said, if you believe there is nothing hidden, then keep mining here. Fact of the matter is BTC was stolen here no matter which way you slice it. BTC was withheld from its miners. Any payouts never happened. The same exact thing happened to cryptsy, and they went under, slush did not, why? Because of their brilliant PR campaigns with favorable articles strategically published immediately after the withholdings came bubbling up in this forum. Also their paid google advertisements have them pop up first for the casual miner when they search for bitcoin mining pool and the like. There is your ignorance.

A number of pools have experienced block withholding attacks before now. Slush's pool has responded no differently to those pools, AFAICT.

Your energies might be better spent on promoting a standardised response to a block withholding attack, rather than targeting Slush's pool.

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