[4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool

[tl121]

If you believe Slush's explanation, which I do, then it is seems inappropriate to refer to this situation a "block withholding attack".  A better term would be "block withholding bug". 

As to people who believe that Slush "owes" them something.  We all had access to the same information and had the opportunity to move our hash power months ago, once it was clear that something was wrong.  I stopped mining at the pool some months ago, once it was obvious that the bad "luck" was almost certainly not luck.

[pekatete]

If you believe Slush's explanation, which I do, then it is seems inappropriate to refer to this situation a "block withholding attack".  A better term would be "block withholding bug".  

As to people who believe that Slush "owes" them something.  We all had access to the same information and had the opportunity to move our hash power months ago, once it was clear that something was wrong.  I stopped mining at the pool some months ago, once it was obvious that the bad "luck" was almost certainly not luck.

^^ Sanity at last!

why would he? simple to keep simpletons like you at his pool thinking that large 40+PH will net them more then a smaller pool.

Most clear headed miners can establish what their hashing power should earn via a multitude of sites on the net that'll estimate how much you should earn with whatever hashing speed. I've never come accross anyone before on any forum that makes the choice of miner rewards pool to mine at based on pool speed, you are the first (and clearly barmy!).

you are obviously a small minded individual who probably bought his account.

Says the guy who opened an account specifically to spew drivel, a very cultured dimwit indeed.

[Herv12]

If you believe Slush's explanation, which I do, then it is seems inappropriate to refer to this situation a "block withholding attack".  A better term would be "block withholding bug". 

As to people who believe that Slush "owes" them something.  We all had access to the same information and had the opportunity to move our hash power months ago, once it was clear that something was wrong.  I stopped mining at the pool some months ago, once it was obvious that the bad "luck" was almost certainly not luck.

Thank you, You have right, i will use "bug" instead of "attack", sorry
I did exactly as you

The question is not whether an attack may be good or bad for the pool manager (I have the same opinion as pekatete on that) but whether this with-hold attack has really taken place!

Phew, thats a relief! Somebody actually has an opinion congruent to mine on at least one aspect.

Thank you,
On this point you are right, it's not debatable

If slush had increased the power displayed his pool for exemple +10PH (no one can know if the indication is true), it dims the incomes of miners and pool keeps the difference.

I fundamentally dis-agree with this, both in terms of the motive for slush to "lie" about the hashing power of the pool, and in terms of dimming / reducing the incomes of miners. For example, if a pool displays its hash power as 30PH when it is actually 20PH
1. The pool will only be earning circa 20PH worth of rewards
2. The pool will report lower luck because it is only earning 20PH worth, which is less than what is computed for 30PH
3. The miners will only be paid what the pool has earned
4. Miners will STILL be earning proportionately to their real hash power and therefore will NOT loose anything.

Unless you are saying that slush's setup is by far very superior to any other pool / mining operation on the network to an extent that he needs to fake his hash power so that pool luck reported is within the generally published values (but on this accassion something went wrong), then your assertion is flawed. I can not fathom any other plausible reason why slush would want to inflate the pool hash power.

1) Yes, but exactly same if there is a withholding bug , impossible to see any difference
2) Yes, but exactly same if there is a withholding bug , impossible to see any difference
3) Yes, but exactly same if there is a withholding bug , impossible to see any difference
4) No because Payment of the minor = Block value x minor hashrate / total hashrate, if you increase displayed hashrate more than real hasrate of pool, you stole your minor... They loose = Real hashpower of pool PH / ( declared hashpower of pool)

It is totally impossible to see difference between a withholding bug and a false increase of total hashrate.

Personally, I have no opinion, I do not accuse slush, I see the facts, that's all.
I have pointed some of my miner since two weeks and at the moment I am quite happy

Anyway when we got caught in the teeth several hashrate increases of over 10%, this problem appears very small now ...

[Mikestang]

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

Despite all the back and forth, this is the post that sums it up the best.  I'll never understand why a lot of people mine where they do.  Why anyone would continue to mine at slush baffles me.  The fanboi flag waving is mildly entertaining, but besides that I see nothing positive here.  When it looks like crap, smells like crap, and feels like crap I have a good feeling what it is...

[pekatete]

<snip>
4) No because Payment of the minor = Block value x minor hashrate / total hashrate, if you increase displayed hashrate more than real hasrate of pool, you stole your minor... They loose = Real hashpower of pool PH / ( declared hashpower of pool)
<snip>

This is where that argument falls to pieces. Why would slush want to do such a thing? He could have used the hash from the pool to mine NMC for himself without giving miners the option to earn the mined NMC and he would make more from that. This is the very same guy who lost BTC 2000 (was it more?) only a few years ago and nothing of the sort of accusation was thrown at him in the following period, until now.

At the end of the day, everyone SHOULD know what their hash rate is supposed to earn them over a reasonable period, say a week. If your rewards are less than that and feel you can get better somewhere else, move it. I personally, since the demise of ghash as we knew it, have not mined at a better place than slush (and yes, been to the slow cooking heist pool too!).

[Herv12]

<snip>
4) No because Payment of the minor = Block value x minor hashrate / total hashrate, if you increase displayed hashrate more than real hasrate of pool, you stole your minor... They loose = Real hashpower of pool PH / ( declared hashpower of pool)
<snip>

This is where that argument falls to pieces. Why would slush want to do such a thing? He could have used the hash from the pool to mine NMC for himself without giving miners the option to earn the mined NMC and he would make more from that. This is the very same guy who lost BTC 2000 (was it more?) only a few years ago and nothing of the sort of accusation was thrown at him in the following period, until now.

At the end of the day, everyone SHOULD know what their hash rate is supposed to earn them over a reasonable period, say a week. If your rewards are less than that and feel you can get better somewhere else, move it. I personally, since the demise of ghash as we knew it, have not mined at a better place than slush (and yes, been to the slow cooking heist pool too!).

Hello Pekatete

You haven't explain how "my argument falls in pieces". I have not write that he have redirected hashpower to do something else.

The best way for a pool manager to rip of  his users is to do a false increase of hashpower of the pool.
That appears like bad luck (or block withhold...) and if he not overdo, it's difficult to see that because of the variance.

[Herv12]

You guys that defend slush and his pool are baffling. If ANY other pool had attacks on them where hundreds or thousands of btc were withheld, stolen, hidden, whatever the case may be; that site would be a ghost town in no time with no one mining on it. The fact that there was a hijacking of this pool, and you all still mine here is insanity. He used to brag about having higher than bank level security, and you really believe someone could have programmed their single solitary miner to withhold blocks from a pool with this level of security?

Despite all the back and forth, this is the post that sums it up the best.  I'll never understand why a lot of people mine where they do.  Why anyone would continue to mine at slush baffles me.  The fanboi flag waving is mildly entertaining, but besides that I see nothing positive here.  When it looks like crap, smells like crap, and feels like crap I have a good feeling what it is...

Hello,
I am one of those people (at least for part of my hashrate).

This is actually a good question because Ghash.io fell very low for less than that!

However, nobody can prove that slush lie. For justice you are inocent if it is not proven that you are not guilty. I apply this rule too.

External attack to kill his pool is an possible option also. that can be to suport him!

Everyone does what he wants
For now pool works well!

[pekatete]

Hello Pekatete

You haven't explain how "my argument falls in pieces". I have not write that he have redirected hashpower to do something else.

The best way for a pool manager to rip of  his users is to do a false increase of hashpower of the pool.
That appears like bad luck (or block withhold...) and if he not overdo, it's difficult to see that because of the variance.

I did not explain because I do not think he's got any reason to do that when he could easily "earn" more by mining altcoins using YOUR very same hash-power that every-one seems to be accussing him of lying about. Well, that was my explanation, you only had to read between the lines ...

Honestly, this is stretching it to unreasonable levels, bottom line is the most unlikely reasons for which slush would allegedly do be responsible for the third party bug attack were being fanned by a dishonest pool op for nefarious aims. I am sure you've noticed the deafening silence since his baseless accusations were emphatically empirically proven to be pie in the sky.

[Herv12]

Hello Pekatete

You haven't explain how "my argument falls in pieces". I have not write that he have redirected hashpower to do something else.

The best way for a pool manager to rip of  his users is to do a false increase of hashpower of the pool.
That appears like bad luck (or block withhold...) and if he not overdo, it's difficult to see that because of the variance.

I did not explain because I do not think he's got any reason to do that when he could easily "earn" more by mining altcoins using YOUR very same hash-power that every-one seems to be accussing him of lying about. Well, that was my explanation, you only had to read between the lines ...

Honestly, this is stretching it to unreasonable levels, bottom line is the most unlikely reasons for which slush would allegedly do be responsible for the third party bug attack were being fanned by a dishonest pool op for nefarious aims. I am sure you've noticed the deafening silence since his baseless accusations were emphatically empirically proven to be pie in the sky.

Sorry for not "read between the lines."

I either I do not allow myself to accuse slush. I set out the facts and assumptions described. But nothing can be Prove, anyway.
 
I agree with you that it has aquired a reputation he would be completely stupid to spoil now. Especially since it seems to me that it was he who founded the company that makes "trezor" in parallel, it would destroy everything he has built. We know who he is. In Reflective, it can not be that.

The possibility of an external attack or big mistake is a likely option.
We will see later what happens.
Thank you
(Sorry for my very bad english)

[xman77]

Stop Bitching and keep mining....if u don't like it move to another pool

[d57heinz]

Where's our buddy slush in all this back and forth.. again with his head in the sand.. hope that it will blow over.. Maybe we forget all this.. Dont worry I dont forget and ill make sure to direct people to more honest and supportive pools from here on out. I Cant believe for someone raking in what slush does per month on fees he cant be bothered with us.. Must mean he has just a few large miners to deal with and Fuck the rest of us!!!!!!.. Don't see him defending anything at all.> I'm sure he doesn't want to point a finger at the miners because we will bust him out on his lie..    Well pekatete  i dont know why you defend unless you are slush himself or paid by him.. I find it funny how you chime in just in the right times.. LMAO.... Anyway  if you care to read from here on.. You can see this was discussed in length by many people and its funny your the only one that defends slush back then aswell.. Makes it obvious you have some ties to him.! Slush pool may have at one time been the best  But so was AOL at the dawn of the internet age..


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13072339#msg13072339
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.21460
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13238801#msg13238801
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13244988#msg13244988

Best Regards
d57heinz

ALL i know from my own life experience is that when someone tells the truth they are Very defending of said truths.> In this case i dont see that at all.   All slush has to do is come out with the brand and firmware of the miners he said caused this issue for so many months now.. If he doesn't do that then he was lying and it was his fuckup causing the lost earnings which should be compensated.. HOw about this.. i don't want compensation IF SLUSH comes forth with the iNFO on these miners.. This info is far more valuable to the community than the lost btc!  If this was only a bug and nothing nefarious then i don't see why this info hasn't been released.   Pekatete why would you not want this info as well??? ??


Edit >> im sure someone mining solo would love to know they are paying power for nothing as their machines will NEVER hit a block.. AND SLUSH KNOWS WHICH MACHINES THEY ARE!!!

[organofcorti]

<snip>All slush has to do is come out with the brand and firmware of the miners he said caused this issue for so many months now.. <snip>

One month, not "so many". Your hyperbole makes it harder for people to take you seriously. Just post what you can prove is true, it'll be enough.

[d57heinz]

<snip>All slush has to do is come out with the brand and firmware of the miners he said caused this issue for so many months now.. <snip>

One month, not "so many". Your hyperbole makes it harder for people to take you seriously. Just post what you can prove is true, it'll be enough.

MONTHS!! read thru the damn posts and go back .. i didnt peg you as being lazy

must be that poor impulse control ehhh

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13230382#msg13230382

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13232270#msg13232270

[d57heinz]

https://slushpool.com/stats/

to me it still appears there is something going on..   look at it hit blocks each time the 10 peta drops off hmmmm.. spv mining and the 10 peta is throwing invalid block headers at slush to fuck his pool up.. Maybe  idk.. But its just too much!

should hit one soon if the patter holds and the hash plummets again.. Lets see. Maybe maybe not..

next question is.. Is the 10 peta coming from nicehash to disguise the miner now.. LOOK at the price.. 0063 at 10 peta pointed at slush it would seem since slush is up and down the same 10 peta.> Hmm purely speculation obviously!.  check out nicehash orders.. 

 #1032866     0.0063   9999.00   1292   3358.0778
https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=orders

why would someone be paying double the rate to point to slush??  hmm  All i know is im getting pd big bucks on nice atm.. Still had some miners set at 0043 and they rented out.!!

[ohmygod21]

55 ph for 10 hours and no block , something fishy again

[organofcorti]

<snip>All slush has to do is come out with the brand and firmware of the miners he said caused this issue for so many months now.. <snip>

One month, not "so many". Your hyperbole makes it harder for people to take you seriously. Just post what you can prove is true, it'll be enough.

MONTHS!! read thru the damn posts and go back .. i didnt peg you as being lazy

must be that poor impulse control ehhh

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13230382#msg13230382

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13232270#msg13232270

There's no significant bad luck in the months before December. I can show you how to calculate it for yourself if necessary. Again, best stick with things you can prove, not just what seems true to you.

[bittalc1]

<snip>All slush has to do is come out with the brand and firmware of the miners he said caused this issue for so many months now.. <snip>

One month, not "so many". Your hyperbole makes it harder for people to take you seriously. Just post what you can prove is true, it'll be enough.

MONTHS!! read thru the damn posts and go back .. i didnt peg you as being lazy

must be that poor impulse control ehhh

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13230382#msg13230382

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13232270#msg13232270

There's no significant bad luck in the months before December. I can show you how to calculate it for yourself if necessary. Again, best stick with things you can prove, not just what seems true to you.

Ok if you know so much about the luck, can you please elaborate the 139% luck day that is now on slush with 54PH?

[ohmygod21]

24 h with 4 block don't match with 139%

[ohmygod21]

i think some blocks are withholded actually

its like pool founded more blocks but don't release them so strange

[ohmygod21]

 jumped to 150 % now


wtf !