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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3928753 times)
Herv12
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February 17, 2016, 12:57:48 PM
 #21681

Hello cassini
I do not question the capabilities of the merged mining, but we discuss the possibility that a bug had be included in the pool software when slush added the merged mining.

In fact, we find that the chance of the pool seems to have dropped by more than 5% over the last 8 months. For a small pool no problem variance can explain that. But for a pool the size of the slush, the likelihood is that if only the variance is small.
Many persons have found it long ago. Please, look at the messages posted since many months before and you will see that many people suspected a problem since long time, but obviously not slush ...

Without insulting Slush (Marek Palatinus), we can still wonder about the time it took to respond. His explanation is plausible, but it is still surprising. A luck drop of this order means that the problem involved a minor representing several PH.
It appears incredible that the minor who have such power is not noticed anything and slush either !

If slush statements are true, he deserves at least a blame, and also the minor concerned.

I expect slush that apply the same transparency that we have on kano pool. But it astonished me that it goes until then. We'll see.

FOr instance, beacause i like this pool, I have restart a part of my mine on it, i will wait few month to see what happends. If problems continue, i will go away definitively.


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bittalc1
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February 17, 2016, 03:45:01 PM
 #21682

Sorry if i insult someone, but i think you should be brain dead to continue mining on slush and continue loosing money. I mean just look at the luck chart, look how much is your earning, look now how many blocks are found and compare that with the luck chart! And the last look when you will get strait answer or any answer from the so called Captain stealer!!!
Herv12
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February 17, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
 #21683

Sorry if i insult someone, but i think you should be brain dead to continue mining on slush and continue loosing money. I mean just look at the luck chart, look how much is your earning, look now how many blocks are found and compare that with the luck chart! And the last look when you will get strait answer or any answer from the so called Captain stealer!!!

Hello,
Yes, i know, i'm a little brain dead!

If slush had fix his problem, it will take time to see effects, due to variance. We must wait to see.

I run my mines in slush pool for an year now. There were moments of good luck and bad luck. On average over the year, the problem will not cost me too much money under the earned in volume.

It is possible that slush is a crook, I do not know and it's impossible to know.
I hope that this incident will push him to put more transparency in its pool (as does kano for example). That will be the best indicator of his honested.  I wait to see what he will propose

Anyway, if you want to mine safe, only one solution: you must go on paying PPS Chinese pools. It is easy to see how they gouge us. I have nothing against the Chinese, but these pools are too big. This is not good for bitcoin network.

The slush pool is exacly the size that goes well (not too big, not too small), proper dashboard, and the monitoring application works well.
He use "hashrate democracy" to choose what is need to be modify. Amazing concept!
That's reason why I let him other chance, and i restart to partial work on his pool.

This incident made me move some of my mines in kano pool, good pool and I think I'll continue like that now, an half on each.
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February 17, 2016, 05:31:34 PM
 #21684

32 hours / 4 blocks . insane

Two blocks appeared in less than 2mins Huh?

Captain is sad; it is too hard to satisfy everyone.

hoosier_13
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February 17, 2016, 06:31:08 PM
 #21685

Slush has been and continues to be dishonest about this problem.  They have been withholding information for months while honest and loyal miners continue to lose money.  Do yourselves a favor and move to Kano.is.  I did and won't look back no matter what their luck looks like.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
welshy82
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February 17, 2016, 06:35:29 PM
 #21686

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is
slush
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February 17, 2016, 06:37:10 PM
 #21687

They have been withholding information for months.

No, we went public once we realized the problem. Keeping the information for us while letting miners to continue with withholding would not make any sense...

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February 17, 2016, 06:38:53 PM
 #21688

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is

We detected the problem, fixed it, announced it publicly and right now we're preparing Hashrate Proof to let our users to check how the pool is mining. I don't think we can do more than this. To be honest, discussing *here* is not really constructive.

Legacy2005
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February 17, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
 #21689

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is

We detected the problem, fixed it, announced it publicly and right now we're preparing Hashrate Proof to let our users to check how the pool is mining. I don't think we can do more than this. To be honest, discussing *here* is not really constructive.

its not really about what you think its about what everyone else thinks about you. Knowing that this is the largest bitcoin forum as soon as the issue was found you should have been on here doing damage control.

Even a simple post saying something along the lines of that you found a problem and currently looking into the solution. and then another post with the solution what you did the fix it and how you are going to make it right for all those that got screwed by the problem. Im sure there are plenty of BTC sitting in your account to repay everyone for their lost coins during the problem time. Hell even a flat rate of repayment of .05 or so would have been better then the silence you exhibited. Or better yet force the person that did this "unintentional" (we all know it was intentional you dont have to pretend) attack to repay everyone.

it would also have been good if you release what the problem was ie X version of mining software. maybe others are running that same software and because they are smaller it doesnt trip the detection alarms. More communication would be great. Maybe collaborate with the other pool owners so they know what the issue was so that person doesnt just simply hop pools and attack another.

hoosier_13
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February 17, 2016, 06:57:56 PM
 #21690

I have to disagree.  Telling your miners that we are in another period of bad luck for weeks while they lose 15-20% of their revenue is not honesty or character.  Honesty and character would be advising your miners that you suspect a significant issue with your systems and that they may sustain significant losses for a undetermined period of time.  In addition, what you are referring to as the "problem" is questionable at best.

At an absolute minimum, Slush's handling of this situation was awful and not representative of the standard you have set of transparency and trust.  The fallout from this incident has yet to materialize.  You will realize at some point that the cost of lost revenue from being up front with your miners would have been much less in the long term.

Slush is not being fully transparent about this issue.  There is not way you are and the fact that you continue to perpetuate this narrative is disappointing.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
slush
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February 17, 2016, 07:05:23 PM
 #21691

force the person that did this "unintentional" (we all know it was intentional you dont have to pretend) attack to repay everyone.

If everybody knows what happen, why to discuss it over again? *rolleyes*

Yes, there was technical issue, we're clear about that. Yes, we though for long time it is just a natural variance in the luck. Once we realized where the problem is, we managed to fix it ASAP so the problem is gone (as you can check, month luck is over 100% now). Although I may agree that the communication of the incident could be better, I still believe we made our best to fix the issue itself.

jonnybravo0311
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February 17, 2016, 08:32:58 PM
 #21692

Hey slush,

I don't know if you've seen it, but here's some good analysis by OOC regarding early detection of block withholding attacks... might be something you could implement: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.html

EDIT:

Appears OOC has already been in contact with you guys... but I'm leaving the link there for anyone else interested in reading up on block withholding.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
slush
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February 17, 2016, 09:18:22 PM
 #21693

Yes, we've been in touch with OOC about that incident; we realized something is going on at about the same time when he made his analysis on which he based his article.

slush
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February 17, 2016, 09:29:51 PM
 #21694

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

krisgt30
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February 17, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
 #21695

Ill just leave this here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/slushpool/comments/45aed4/no_one_should_mine_in_this_pool/

www.bcmonster.com Bitcoin Mining Pool - [PPLNS / pays TX]  / Easy Live Dashboard / Help us get up to 1PH. Donate: 1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
kano
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February 17, 2016, 11:25:42 PM
 #21696

Well many users here have complained about it for quite some time.

However, it certainly didn't take any effort to see there was a problem when I looked at it 41 days ago Tongue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

Pool: https://kano.is BTC: 1KanoiBupPiZfkwqB7rfLXAzPnoTshAVmb
CKPool and CGMiner developer, IRC FreeNode #ckpool and #cgminer kanoi
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
Herv12
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February 18, 2016, 06:03:59 PM
 #21697

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Hello Slush,
Thank you for that but maybe you have most important things to do,... like auto-detecting block withholding for exemple!

If I'm not mistaken it was you who designed the stratum protocol?

I'm not very knowledgeable of how it works, but I asked myself the following question:
Is it possible to send a job that has already won a block to all the miner (the same work) for example once a day to check that every miners solve the solution. it only cost a few seconds but would help to find block withholding problems?


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February 18, 2016, 07:07:39 PM
 #21698

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Hello Slush,
Thank you for that but maybe you have most important things to do,... like auto-detecting block withholding for exemple!

If I'm not mistaken it was you who designed the stratum protocol?

I'm not very knowledgeable of how it works, but I asked myself the following question:
Is it possible to send a job that has already won a block to all the miner (the same work) for example once a day to check that every miners solve the solution. it only cost a few seconds but would help to find block withholding problems?




This isn't possible.  In Stratum, each miner has a unique ExtraNonce1 value which means giving every miner the exact same job (which is what Stratum does already) will result in different hashes from every miner.  There is no way around this, since if  you added a feature to Stratum that forced an ExtraNonce1 change for work verification, the withholder would KNOW they're being tested.

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pekatete
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February 18, 2016, 07:30:20 PM
 #21699

Maybe you noticed the pool website now redirects to https://slushpool.com. The URL is legit, we've been lucky enough to obtain this nice domain and we just moved there from more complicated "mining.bitcoin.cz". Back in 2010 I did not realize how big the mining industry will became, so I choose just a subdomain of my Czech bitcoin blog :-).

This is just about the website, no change in miner settings is needed as we keep all mining URLs to work normally.

Nice one captain, and the UI keeps getting better! Looking forward to the proof stats coming up, and great job nipping that block with-holding bug ... better late than never I say. Oh! before I forget, the pool luck across all stats looks brilliant too .... keep up the good work.

Herv12
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February 18, 2016, 07:35:19 PM
 #21700


This isn't possible.  In Stratum, each miner has a unique ExtraNonce1 value which means giving every miner the exact same job (which is what Stratum does already) will result in different hashes from every miner.  There is no way around this, since if  you added a feature to Stratum that forced an ExtraNonce1 change for work verification, the withholder would KNOW they're being tested.

Thank you for your answer
I suspected a little it was not so easy!
Remains a statistical analysis, but the scale of a pool, it may get a lot of warnings, only the larger miners will be effectively been verified.

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