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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3858397 times)
organofcorti
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Poor impulse control.


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February 15, 2016, 08:33:02 PM
 #21681


EDIT even funnier yet.. "By allowing the public to examine block hashes, Slushes pool will allow you to check for block withholding too. If they also include an anonymised user account identifier, the pool difficulty for that block hash and the number of block hashes returned by that user at that pool difficulty, you'll also be able to check for unintentional block withholding. I hope other pools follow suit."

Slush gets pool fees yet he expects us to babysit it for him. If it wasnt for a group of us letting him know this wouldnt have even been an issue. Slush said it was luck! FFS. what a joke.. slush needs to take some damn accountability here.. UFF WTF



You misunderstand. "Babysitting" wasn't the point, rather that instead of just assuming a problem exists you can actually check to see if it exists. Regardless of how you think this recent problem at Slush's pool has been handled, the idea that blockhashes will be published to improve pool transparency seems to me to be a big step forward for pooled mining.



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ohmygod21
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February 16, 2016, 10:16:41 AM
 #21682

30 hours / 4 blocks . @ 60 % day and sub again ^^
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February 16, 2016, 01:42:31 PM
 #21683


EDIT even funnier yet.. "By allowing the public to examine block hashes, Slushes pool will allow you to check for block withholding too. If they also include an anonymised user account identifier, the pool difficulty for that block hash and the number of block hashes returned by that user at that pool difficulty, you'll also be able to check for unintentional block withholding. I hope other pools follow suit."

Slush gets pool fees yet he expects us to babysit it for him. If it wasnt for a group of us letting him know this wouldnt have even been an issue. Slush said it was luck! FFS. what a joke.. slush needs to take some damn accountability here.. UFF WTF



You misunderstand. "Babysitting" wasn't the point, rather that instead of just assuming a problem exists you can actually check to see if it exists. Regardless of how you think this recent problem at Slush's pool has been handled, the idea that blockhashes will be published to improve pool transparency seems to me to be a big step forward for pooled mining.




i think its a step in the right direction but total silence from slush on this should be a BIG RED FLAG>> NOW its shit again .. there is too much of a pattern to this to ignore!.. Now he is pushing 50 peta.. If you ask me.. this is all smoke and mirrors for a piss poor server setup.. This pool needs to be shut down to the public if this is how its going to be operated!  

Edit.. just so you know for the longest time slush block propagation was very poor which caused us how many lost blocks. he even admits it saying he didnt have matt corralos relay network configured right.. https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/recent-orphaned-blocks-explanation/   This was goin on 4 months ago now. that this pool has had problems of all sorts.. Seems to be a pattern emerging there aswell..  

Edit moreso the problems probably started about this time frame https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/update-bip101-voting-disabled-because-of-ddos-attack/
then he tries to fix his servers after the community gave him a thank you for switching to 8 mb vote!.  https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/short-website-maintenance-23-9-24-9/

best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
ohmygod21
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February 16, 2016, 03:39:24 PM
 #21684

32 hours / 4 blocks . insane

Slushpool down ohh yeaaa . too much hashrate 56% pool luck / day - Holy shit
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February 16, 2016, 05:52:42 PM
 #21685




Edit moreso the problems probably started about this time frame https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/update-bip101-voting-disabled-because-of-ddos-attack/
then he tries to fix his servers after the community gave him a thank you for switching to 8 mb vote!.  https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/short-website-maintenance-23-9-24-9/

best Regards
d57heinz

Hello d57heinz

I do not understand how this attack could permanently disrupt the pool.

Do not you think that a bug in the NMC merged mining software could be the cause of some of the problems?

I feel that the troubles of the pool is started then.  But it's just feeling...

I totally agree with you on that slush seems to not care about us!...
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February 16, 2016, 06:27:23 PM
 #21686




Edit moreso the problems probably started about this time frame https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/update-bip101-voting-disabled-because-of-ddos-attack/
then he tries to fix his servers after the community gave him a thank you for switching to 8 mb vote!.  https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/short-website-maintenance-23-9-24-9/

best Regards
d57heinz

Hello d57heinz

I do not understand how this attack could permanently disrupt the pool.

Do not you think that a bug in the NMC merged mining software could be the cause of some of the problems?

I feel that the troubles of the pool is started then.  But it's just feeling...

I totally agree with you on that slush seems to not care about us!...

You very much could be right. the extra strain merged mining causes could be part of it.For what nmc worth its a joke to even bother!  looking further back on his news and you can see that he started merged aswell just before this all went to shit.. So i feel its a number of factors but the greatest one being that he doesnt seem to give a shit about the damage he has caused and continues to inflict on the miners that still mine there(while he haphazardly works out the problems). Also he has yet to come with what brand miners supposedly had the bad code.. Should make for a good story there im sure!  if you look at the blocks found on the dashboard  click the nmc button on the top right of the graph and watch it for the next couple weeks.. Slush finds shit tons of nmc blocks. but what is odd to me is that the pool hardly ever finds a nmc block along with a btc block.. i could see once n a while being orphaned on nmc but its my understanding that nmc being about 1/4 the diff of btc you should almost always find a block of nmc when you find a block of btc  but with slush that isn't the case..  Most likely server issues or propagation issues with nmc as well..  I know about a month ago he was getting block notifications up to 30 seconds after the rest of the pools on btc(this alone attributes to 72 min of mining on old work every day for who knows how long!).. That's a shitload of lost work on old blocks!  anyway its like beating a dead horse at this point. Im working on submitting what im owed from sept to dec when i finally said hell with this i'm moving to kano. Good luck with this.. Hope your captain gets his shit together.. Just know that lost blocks due to bad luck in theory should hopefully get caught up with good luck.. but when its server issues and block withholdings.. you will never regain back your losses.

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
cassini
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February 17, 2016, 01:43:21 AM
 #21687

I agree that it wasn't a good idea of Slush (or whoever is in charge) to stop posting in here. This is either poor customer service, or there was simply too much trolling at some time and he gave up keeping this thread tidy.
I do not agree with some of your technical statements, though:

the extra strain merged mining causes
Could you please elaborate?
How many microseconds of CPU time you think it takes to process and insert an incoming NMC tx into the mempool, for example?


For what nmc worth its a joke to even bother!
Miners at this pool asked for re-activating merged mining a while ago. Not because of the extra money, but because they wanted a few NMCs for free, to be able to experiment with decentralized key/value storage on the NMC blockchain, for example, or for registering a NameId for Bitmessage and OpenID.



but what is odd to me is that the pool hardly ever finds a nmc block along with a btc block.
What do you mean with "hardly ever"? At a merged-mining pool a BTC block always comes along with an NMC block. I recommend you take a look at the auxPoW data in a merged-mined block, see https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Merged_mining_specification

By the way, this pool found 91 NMC blocks und 31 BTC blocks (or 34%) since the last difficulty change on either chain (i.e. 2016-02-11 22:30:59 UTC on the NMC blockchain).
The current NMC/BTC difficulty ratio is 45789403314 to 144116447847 which means that this pool should find BTC blocks at a rate of 32% compared to the NMC block rate.
simonpeter35
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February 17, 2016, 12:29:42 PM
 #21688

Two blocks appeared in less than 2mins Huh?
Herv12
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February 17, 2016, 12:57:48 PM
 #21689

Hello cassini
I do not question the capabilities of the merged mining, but we discuss the possibility that a bug had be included in the pool software when slush added the merged mining.

In fact, we find that the chance of the pool seems to have dropped by more than 5% over the last 8 months. For a small pool no problem variance can explain that. But for a pool the size of the slush, the likelihood is that if only the variance is small.
Many persons have found it long ago. Please, look at the messages posted since many months before and you will see that many people suspected a problem since long time, but obviously not slush ...

Without insulting Slush (Marek Palatinus), we can still wonder about the time it took to respond. His explanation is plausible, but it is still surprising. A luck drop of this order means that the problem involved a minor representing several PH.
It appears incredible that the minor who have such power is not noticed anything and slush either !

If slush statements are true, he deserves at least a blame, and also the minor concerned.

I expect slush that apply the same transparency that we have on kano pool. But it astonished me that it goes until then. We'll see.

FOr instance, beacause i like this pool, I have restart a part of my mine on it, i will wait few month to see what happends. If problems continue, i will go away definitively.


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February 17, 2016, 03:45:01 PM
 #21690

Sorry if i insult someone, but i think you should be brain dead to continue mining on slush and continue loosing money. I mean just look at the luck chart, look how much is your earning, look now how many blocks are found and compare that with the luck chart! And the last look when you will get strait answer or any answer from the so called Captain stealer!!!
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February 17, 2016, 05:30:48 PM
 #21691

Sorry if i insult someone, but i think you should be brain dead to continue mining on slush and continue loosing money. I mean just look at the luck chart, look how much is your earning, look now how many blocks are found and compare that with the luck chart! And the last look when you will get strait answer or any answer from the so called Captain stealer!!!

Hello,
Yes, i know, i'm a little brain dead!

If slush had fix his problem, it will take time to see effects, due to variance. We must wait to see.

I run my mines in slush pool for an year now. There were moments of good luck and bad luck. On average over the year, the problem will not cost me too much money under the earned in volume.

It is possible that slush is a crook, I do not know and it's impossible to know.
I hope that this incident will push him to put more transparency in its pool (as does kano for example). That will be the best indicator of his honested.  I wait to see what he will propose

Anyway, if you want to mine safe, only one solution: you must go on paying PPS Chinese pools. It is easy to see how they gouge us. I have nothing against the Chinese, but these pools are too big. This is not good for bitcoin network.

The slush pool is exacly the size that goes well (not too big, not too small), proper dashboard, and the monitoring application works well.
He use "hashrate democracy" to choose what is need to be modify. Amazing concept!
That's reason why I let him other chance, and i restart to partial work on his pool.

This incident made me move some of my mines in kano pool, good pool and I think I'll continue like that now, an half on each.
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February 17, 2016, 05:31:34 PM
 #21692

32 hours / 4 blocks . insane

Two blocks appeared in less than 2mins Huh?

Captain is sad; it is too hard to satisfy everyone.

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February 17, 2016, 06:31:08 PM
 #21693

Slush has been and continues to be dishonest about this problem.  They have been withholding information for months while honest and loyal miners continue to lose money.  Do yourselves a favor and move to Kano.is.  I did and won't look back no matter what their luck looks like.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
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February 17, 2016, 06:35:29 PM
 #21694

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is
slush
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February 17, 2016, 06:37:10 PM
 #21695

They have been withholding information for months.

No, we went public once we realized the problem. Keeping the information for us while letting miners to continue with withholding would not make any sense...

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February 17, 2016, 06:38:53 PM
 #21696

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is

We detected the problem, fixed it, announced it publicly and right now we're preparing Hashrate Proof to let our users to check how the pool is mining. I don't think we can do more than this. To be honest, discussing *here* is not really constructive.

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February 17, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
 #21697

wow hes online and only posted 2 small lines shows where his priority is

We detected the problem, fixed it, announced it publicly and right now we're preparing Hashrate Proof to let our users to check how the pool is mining. I don't think we can do more than this. To be honest, discussing *here* is not really constructive.

its not really about what you think its about what everyone else thinks about you. Knowing that this is the largest bitcoin forum as soon as the issue was found you should have been on here doing damage control.

Even a simple post saying something along the lines of that you found a problem and currently looking into the solution. and then another post with the solution what you did the fix it and how you are going to make it right for all those that got screwed by the problem. Im sure there are plenty of BTC sitting in your account to repay everyone for their lost coins during the problem time. Hell even a flat rate of repayment of .05 or so would have been better then the silence you exhibited. Or better yet force the person that did this "unintentional" (we all know it was intentional you dont have to pretend) attack to repay everyone.

it would also have been good if you release what the problem was ie X version of mining software. maybe others are running that same software and because they are smaller it doesnt trip the detection alarms. More communication would be great. Maybe collaborate with the other pool owners so they know what the issue was so that person doesnt just simply hop pools and attack another.

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February 17, 2016, 06:57:56 PM
 #21698

I have to disagree.  Telling your miners that we are in another period of bad luck for weeks while they lose 15-20% of their revenue is not honesty or character.  Honesty and character would be advising your miners that you suspect a significant issue with your systems and that they may sustain significant losses for a undetermined period of time.  In addition, what you are referring to as the "problem" is questionable at best.

At an absolute minimum, Slush's handling of this situation was awful and not representative of the standard you have set of transparency and trust.  The fallout from this incident has yet to materialize.  You will realize at some point that the cost of lost revenue from being up front with your miners would have been much less in the long term.

Slush is not being fully transparent about this issue.  There is not way you are and the fact that you continue to perpetuate this narrative is disappointing.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
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February 17, 2016, 07:05:23 PM
 #21699

force the person that did this "unintentional" (we all know it was intentional you dont have to pretend) attack to repay everyone.

If everybody knows what happen, why to discuss it over again? *rolleyes*

Yes, there was technical issue, we're clear about that. Yes, we though for long time it is just a natural variance in the luck. Once we realized where the problem is, we managed to fix it ASAP so the problem is gone (as you can check, month luck is over 100% now). Although I may agree that the communication of the incident could be better, I still believe we made our best to fix the issue itself.

jonnybravo0311
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February 17, 2016, 08:32:58 PM
 #21700

Hey slush,

I don't know if you've seen it, but here's some good analysis by OOC regarding early detection of block withholding attacks... might be something you could implement: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2016/02/detecting-unintentional-block.html

EDIT:

Appears OOC has already been in contact with you guys... but I'm leaving the link there for anyone else interested in reading up on block withholding.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
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