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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [40+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 3852376 times)
-ck
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December 13, 2015, 09:27:09 PM
 #21501

You're right that there's something wrong and it appears to be related to block propagation speed from the pool which would lead to more orphans and possibly lost blocks entirely.

I've been monitoring block change speed at pools here:
http://poolbench.antminer.link/

and there are some occasional glitches that are unique to slush. Every so often he'll get a block like Block 388165 and the pool will issue an update but no other pools will see the block for a long time afterwards meaning it hasn't propagated across the bitcoin p2p network. My pool was the first one to see his block and propagate a block change but it was 17 seconds later.

Found by slush
Code:
1. us-east.stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:36.698000
2. solo.ckpool.org:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:53.658000

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
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December 14, 2015, 03:36:16 AM
 #21502

You're right that there's something wrong and it appears to be related to block propagation speed from the pool which would lead to more orphans and possibly lost blocks entirely.

I've been monitoring block change speed at pools here:
http://poolbench.antminer.link/

and there are some occasional glitches that are unique to slush. Every so often he'll get a block like Block 388165 and the pool will issue an update but no other pools will see the block for a long time afterwards meaning it hasn't propagated across the bitcoin p2p network. My pool was the first one to see his block and propagate a block change but it was 17 seconds later.

Found by slush
Code:
1. us-east.stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:36.698000
2. solo.ckpool.org:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:53.658000

i took a  good look at that site and ill tell ya what stands out to me.. I don't see all slush stratums on there.  Would that site show private stratums that slush has or do btc pools have to install an api for that site to poll the data?.. reason i ask is a few months ago i got an email from slush stating that i was one of his top miners. Which at the time i was at slush back in late 2014 early 2015 i was at 80 th/s.  In that email he gave me a private stratum port to mine to. I threw my s4's to it as they were easiest to swap to it. And i swapped a few s3's. What im wondering if this new private stratum is to blame here.  I dont want to give out the address but i wonder how many got  that email and just how much of slush hash is on these new private stratums.. What he told me was that it was for ddos protection.  Also i know he is using This relay network.  not sure if its reliable or if its also part of the issue?  http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/   http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/stats.html

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
Lucko
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December 14, 2015, 08:11:57 AM
 #21503

You're right that there's something wrong and it appears to be related to block propagation speed from the pool which would lead to more orphans and possibly lost blocks entirely.

I've been monitoring block change speed at pools here:
http://poolbench.antminer.link/

and there are some occasional glitches that are unique to slush. Every so often he'll get a block like Block 388165 and the pool will issue an update but no other pools will see the block for a long time afterwards meaning it hasn't propagated across the bitcoin p2p network. My pool was the first one to see his block and propagate a block change but it was 17 seconds later.

Found by slush
Code:
1. us-east.stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:36.698000
2. solo.ckpool.org:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:53.658000
Yes orphans are really hi... I was about to point that out again... But I think that there is also a big miner on a pool that is withholding blocks... Since this bad luck is now lasting really long at really low levels... Also I'm 100% sure that statistic on a dashboard are wrong... Day average hashrate is not 1 day average. It is probably about 12 hours...(know that since I moved some of miners) Not sure about the rest... But seeing 1 block in 18 hours and luck of 70% makes me think... But that could be down to recalculation when block is found... Last time I left the pool from exact same reason. It looked like Slush didn't have time to check on it from time to time... And I'm seeing more and more gleaches...
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December 14, 2015, 08:14:34 AM
 #21504

i took a  good look at that site and ill tell ya what stands out to me.. I don't see all slush stratums on there.  Would that site show private stratums that slush has or do btc pools have to install an api for that site to poll the data?.. reason i ask is a few months ago i got an email from slush stating that i was one of his top miners. Which at the time i was at slush back in late 2014 early 2015 i was at 80 th/s.  In that email he gave me a private stratum port to mine to. I threw my s4's to it as they were easiest to swap to it. And i swapped a few s3's. What im wondering if this new private stratum is to blame here.  I dont want to give out the address but i wonder how many got  that email and just how much of slush hash is on these new private stratums.. What he told me was that it was for ddos protection.  Also i know he is using This relay network.  not sure if its reliable or if its also part of the issue?  http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/   http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/stats.html

Best Regards
d57heinz

The site does not use a pool specific API, it is just cgminer connecting to many pools at the same time using stratum protocol monitoring for blockhash changes, as for private stratum servers that would be a bad idea to put on the site as it would expose their IP's, it only monitors public pool stratum servers and a few testing pools that have requested to be added. Most pools use relay network, this doesn't monitor through relay network it connects directly to the pools stratum server(this is more useful since it shows the times actual miners are given the updates). You can use the calculations on the site to estimate orphan rates, using (Ave Delta From First Pool/600) should give you a rough estimate of the orphan rate percent.
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December 14, 2015, 11:13:13 AM
 #21505

... And I'm seeing more and more gleaches...

The main breach of fair is that the pool's real hashrate is around half as much of that shown on the site
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December 14, 2015, 12:44:48 PM
 #21506

... And I'm seeing more and more gleaches...

The main breach of fair is that the pool's real hashrate is around half as much of that shown on the site

maybe he's waiting for someone to propose in his development section to split that value to show real hashrate rewarded to miners instead of showing the total hashrate donated to his own affairs from miners.

I hope for it, because -ck's explanation about work lost is even more sad.
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December 14, 2015, 02:02:30 PM
 #21507

I hope for it, because -ck's explanation about work lost is even more sad.

Yeah, slush known to mine on garbage I suspect they are losing quite a bit of hashrate due to that, f2pool has even mentioned they regularly see garbage come off of slush's stratum servers. IMO there are only a few pools with decently fast and reliable stratum servers, and those are the ckpool based pools(kano.is,bitclubpool.com,ckpool.org) in addition to f2pool and btcchina also being reasonably fast, the rest are generally slower and less reliable, bitminter and eligius have gotten better since I've started monitoring pools but are not the fastest overall, ghash has been consistently slow while slush is all over the place(this could indicate reliability issues with the stratum server sending out work properly).
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December 14, 2015, 02:45:54 PM
 #21508

instead of showing the total hashrate donated to his own affairs from miners.



Yeh, looks like he relocates some miners' power, who kmows where. I have moved from this pool cause  I do not trust it anymore
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December 14, 2015, 02:59:00 PM
 #21509

^^ you are not alone. The pool has lost ~10Ph/s in the last 2 days. Sorry, but something is really wrong.
d57heinz
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December 14, 2015, 03:30:32 PM
 #21510

I sent him a message on facebook see if i can some kind of response about the piss poor performance of this pool.   At this rate he wont have to worry about it to much longer when noone mines here..  i mean 800 ths is 2 % of the pool(or was). Id say thats more then enough payment to (1) frequent this site way more than he does.. and (2) it should be more than enough to cover the costs of doing business and server costs,   i should be able to get the best server/internet connection with that 65 k a month slush earns off this pool..

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
d57heinz
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December 14, 2015, 07:17:24 PM
 #21511

i took a  good look at that site and ill tell ya what stands out to me.. I don't see all slush stratums on there.  Would that site show private stratums that slush has or do btc pools have to install an api for that site to poll the data?.. reason i ask is a few months ago i got an email from slush stating that i was one of his top miners. Which at the time i was at slush back in late 2014 early 2015 i was at 80 th/s.  In that email he gave me a private stratum port to mine to. I threw my s4's to it as they were easiest to swap to it. And i swapped a few s3's. What im wondering if this new private stratum is to blame here.  I dont want to give out the address but i wonder how many got  that email and just how much of slush hash is on these new private stratums.. What he told me was that it was for ddos protection.  Also i know he is using This relay network.  not sure if its reliable or if its also part of the issue?  http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/   http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/stats.html

Best Regards
d57heinz

The site does not use a pool specific API, it is just cgminer connecting to many pools at the same time using stratum protocol monitoring for blockhash changes, as for private stratum servers that would be a bad idea to put on the site as it would expose their IP's, it only monitors public pool stratum servers and a few testing pools that have requested to be added. Most pools use relay network, this doesn't monitor through relay network it connects directly to the pools stratum server(this is more useful since it shows the times actual miners are given the updates). You can use the calculations on the site to estimate orphan rates, using (Ave Delta From First Pool/600) should give you a rough estimate of the orphan rate percent.

Thanks so much for explaining that to me.. Would love to add my personal pool but then it would be exposed.. So basically you take cgminer.. Add all your stratums of the pools you want to include and then either be watching for block changes and see when the pools all receive a change.. or like you said use an api and display it on a site like that .. Thats Really cool! Lots of good info to be had there!!  Hope im understanding this correctly.

Edit>>Would you have to turn on load balance to see all the pools block change or does it monitor the pools for changes always.. I know it keeps tabs on whether the pool is up or not.

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
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December 14, 2015, 09:26:43 PM
 #21512


Edit>>Would you have to turn on load balance to see all the pools block change or does it monitor the pools for changes always.. I know it keeps tabs on whether the pool is up or not.

Best Regards
d57heinz
i made a poor proxy that allowed me to test this for the last 2 month:

in cgminer 4.8.0 if you start it with failover strategy, it doesn't opens/listens to other connections/pools rather than the one with 0 priority, but what i do is quickly switch to each pool at the begining, and then it keeps connections opened with all pools. At this point, all pools will notice you all updates/blocks, and you can watch/log them in order to fancy display them later if you wish.

otherwise, starting it with load balance strategy connects to all pools and you will get notices of all updates/blocks too.

P.D. i preffer the first way just because i dont like the load balance strategy (i preffer to failover different miners to different pools)

hope it helps'¡!
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December 14, 2015, 11:09:15 PM
 #21513

I am hoping the recent bout of bad luck is just because of variance. A block withholding attack is always a possibility, though people leaving is not helping that situation. Stay strong everyone, and remember there are two sides to variance.

Please also re enable BIP101 support, especially as we approach January.

Still waiting on a bout of good luck with a significantly decreased hashrate, more profits for me. Slush rocks, I have not lost my faith in Slush just yet! Smiley
-ck
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December 14, 2015, 11:20:22 PM
 #21514

You're right that there's something wrong and it appears to be related to block propagation speed from the pool which would lead to more orphans and possibly lost blocks entirely.

I've been monitoring block change speed at pools here:
http://poolbench.antminer.link/

and there are some occasional glitches that are unique to slush. Every so often he'll get a block like Block 388165 and the pool will issue an update but no other pools will see the block for a long time afterwards meaning it hasn't propagated across the bitcoin p2p network. My pool was the first one to see his block and propagate a block change but it was 17 seconds later.

Found by slush
Code:
1. us-east.stratum.bitcoin.cz:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:36.698000
2. solo.ckpool.org:3333 2015-12-13 05:29:53.658000

i took a  good look at that site and ill tell ya what stands out to me.. I don't see all slush stratums on there.  Would that site show private stratums that slush has or do btc pools have to install an api for that site to poll the data?.. reason i ask is a few months ago i got an email from slush stating that i was one of his top miners. Which at the time i was at slush back in late 2014 early 2015 i was at 80 th/s.  In that email he gave me a private stratum port to mine to. I threw my s4's to it as they were easiest to swap to it. And i swapped a few s3's. What im wondering if this new private stratum is to blame here.  I dont want to give out the address but i wonder how many got  that email and just how much of slush hash is on these new private stratums.. What he told me was that it was for ddos protection.  Also i know he is using This relay network.  not sure if its reliable or if its also part of the issue?  http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/   http://bitcoinrelaynetwork.org/stats.html

The relaynetwork seems to be working perfectly well for the rest of us (and is a real boon to mining pools). Regardless of how many and where his stratum servers are, the issue lies in getting the block out to the network which is far more important than getting a stratum update out to his miners, or the block gets lost. I thought it might be isolated to a particular location but looking at more of those blocks I see it can happen sourced from any of his stratum server nodes. In the last 2 blocks checked on poolbench, one of them still took 8 seconds to get propagated. If you look at other pools, it's usually in the order of hundreds of milliseconds by comparison.

Primary developer/maintainer for cgminer and ckpool/ckproxy.
Pooled mine at kano.is, solo mine at solo.ckpool.org
-ck
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December 14, 2015, 11:33:48 PM
 #21515

The amount of hashing power has dropped from 40-41 PH/s to 31 PH/s from yesterday.
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December 14, 2015, 11:39:20 PM
 #21516

moved to a pool operator that i can trust & with better luck too *hopefully* fingers crossed but so far so good @ K's pool
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December 15, 2015, 12:49:02 AM
 #21517

made the move to Kanos pool as well.  Just need to figure out a proxy solution for my tubes.  Hopefully this is just configuration issues and not something more nefarious on the operators part.   
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December 15, 2015, 12:56:53 AM
 #21518

Moved half my gear to Kano as well as something isn't right with this pool anymore.
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December 15, 2015, 01:44:30 AM
 #21519

Thanks so much for explaining that to me.. Would love to add my personal pool but then it would be exposed.. So basically you take cgminer.. Add all your stratums of the pools you want to include and then either be watching for block changes and see when the pools all receive a change.. or like you said use an api and display it on a site like that .. Thats Really cool! Lots of good info to be had there!!  Hope im understanding this correctly.

Edit>>Would you have to turn on load balance to see all the pools block change or does it monitor the pools for changes always.. I know it keeps tabs on whether the pool is up or not.

Best Regards
d57heinz
Technically it is a log-parser not an API, the data is dynamically generated from cgminer logs. There are a few minor patches to cgminer to get it to log the relevant data needed for poolbench. I do have it in load balance mode although I'm not entirely sure that's required.
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December 16, 2015, 07:24:32 AM
 #21520

Looks like that 8PH were withholding... The moment they were gone luck is up... And it is the right percentage to take 30 days average to the level it was... But time will tell
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