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Question: What type of pool payouts do you prefer?
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Author Topic: [2.5+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 4326820 times)
kano
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February 08, 2016, 05:42:02 AM
 #21601

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

Pool: https://kano.is Here on Bitcointalk: Forum BTC: 1KanoPb8cKYqNrswjaA8cRDk4FAS9eDMLU
FreeNode IRC: irc.freenode.net channel #kano.is Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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d57heinz
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February 08, 2016, 09:38:24 AM
 #21602

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

AS i have aswell.. on their facebook page since that is the only place they check for support related shit.. I know crazy right!?? anyway we will see whats up since we were on slush about this since back at least as far as november 2015 from what ive seen posted on fb.  Looking forward to see how this is handled!

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
welshy82
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February 08, 2016, 01:19:01 PM
 #21603

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

lets hope he does pay us some sort of compo lol or hes gonna lose a lot oif unhappy miners
btiAndy
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February 08, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
 #21604

Good to see Slush is trying to come clean, but of course the damage is done and I think it will take much for him to rebuild trust; agree there needs to be more disclosure on who this miner was and what/how the block withholding attack was accomplished.
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February 08, 2016, 05:23:54 PM
 #21605

just wasted 4 Ph with incredible bad luck , 2 blocks > 23 h

3.80 btc loss =) hihaaaaa
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February 08, 2016, 06:38:33 PM
 #21606

Slush is not coming clean.  Far from it.  This issue was known about for weeks and the answer was always bad luck.  They knew there was an issue and did not do the right thing and inform their loyal miners that they could be subject to lose a lot of revenue.

I lost many BTC from this debacle and they have refused any compensation.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
d57heinz
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February 08, 2016, 07:41:42 PM
 #21607

Slush is not coming clean.  Far from it.  This issue was known about for weeks and the answer was always bad luck.  They knew there was an issue and did not do the right thing and inform their loyal miners that they could be subject to lose a lot of revenue.                                                                                                             MONTHS

I lost many BTC from this debacle and they have refused any compensation.

Wink

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
krisgt30
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February 08, 2016, 08:01:16 PM
 #21608

I mean I have only been mining since the end of December, and right away I knew something was up. I thought to myself, how can 40ph find only one block a day when at the time you had 4ph pools average 1.2 blocks a day. After about 3 weeks on slush pool I noticed this and pulled out and haven't looked back. I am frankly amazed people are still mining on this pool.

www.bcmonster.com Bitcoin Mining pool, offering pools for Komodo, Bitcoin Atom, and Bitcoin Gold as well -Donate:1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
btiAndy
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February 08, 2016, 08:19:33 PM
 #21609

Yeah in hindsight now and thinking about this more clearly something really stinks about this explanation from Slush. He is really not coming clean at all here.

For months we have been watching this cycle and have made repeated attempts to communicate this pattern to him for explanation. Nothing. Now he is basically saying that this particular miner was "accidentally" withholding blocks and that the problem has been fixed...and in fact he knows it has been fixed as that same miner has since the repair cracked two blocks... just not right and not near enough.

Slush should have banned that miner immediately (there must be a way to do this) and made an attempt to recover lost funds to return to those of us who stuck with him for so long. I have been gone from Slush for a few weeks now (actually stopped mining all together as there is no suitable outlet for a small scale miner like me anymore), Slush has definitely soured me on BTC mining as a result though.

Really rotten.
notabeliever
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February 08, 2016, 08:48:48 PM
 #21610

not happy

Pool url: pool.burstcoin.de:8080           
Reward Assignment address: BURST-GHTV-7ZP3-DY4B-FPBFA
jonnybravo0311
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February 08, 2016, 08:58:04 PM
 #21611

Yeah in hindsight now and thinking about this more clearly something really stinks about this explanation from Slush. He is really not coming clean at all here.

For months we have been watching this cycle and have made repeated attempts to communicate this pattern to him for explanation. Nothing. Now he is basically saying that this particular miner was "accidentally" withholding blocks and that the problem has been fixed...and in fact he knows it has been fixed as that same miner has since the repair cracked two blocks... just not right and not near enough.

Slush should have banned that miner immediately (there must be a way to do this) and made an attempt to recover lost funds to return to those of us who stuck with him for so long. I have been gone from Slush for a few weeks now (actually stopped mining all together as there is no suitable outlet for a small scale miner like me anymore), Slush has definitely soured me on BTC mining as a result though.

Really rotten.
As was explained earlier, you cannot simply ban somebody immediately.  You don't really know someone is performing a block withholding attack until a large number of hashes have been produced without a block solution.  Plenty of pools regularly suffer through long rounds - it is the nature of mining.  It goes to follow, then, that an individual miner also suffers the same.  Kano suggested 10 blocks earlier.  At that point, the chances of it being "luck" are exceptionally minimal.  Unfortunately, 250BTC have been lost to the miner.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
btiAndy
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February 08, 2016, 10:02:06 PM
 #21612

Yeah in hindsight now and thinking about this more clearly something really stinks about this explanation from Slush. He is really not coming clean at all here.

For months we have been watching this cycle and have made repeated attempts to communicate this pattern to him for explanation. Nothing. Now he is basically saying that this particular miner was "accidentally" withholding blocks and that the problem has been fixed...and in fact he knows it has been fixed as that same miner has since the repair cracked two blocks... just not right and not near enough.

Slush should have banned that miner immediately (there must be a way to do this) and made an attempt to recover lost funds to return to those of us who stuck with him for so long. I have been gone from Slush for a few weeks now (actually stopped mining all together as there is no suitable outlet for a small scale miner like me anymore), Slush has definitely soured me on BTC mining as a result though.

Really rotten.
As was explained earlier, you cannot simply ban somebody immediately.  You don't really know someone is performing a block withholding attack until a large number of hashes have been produced without a block solution.  Plenty of pools regularly suffer through long rounds - it is the nature of mining.  It goes to follow, then, that an individual miner also suffers the same.  Kano suggested 10 blocks earlier.  At that point, the chances of it being "luck" are exceptionally minimal.  Unfortunately, 250BTC have been lost to the miner.

OK Fair enough, thank you for the explanation. I am not sure on the time frame though required for analysis with regard to Kano's explanation.I am sure I am sounding too simplistic and like a "Noob" but my question still stands, ..how long should it take to expose a withholding attack under these circumstances? At Slush this has been going on for at least 3 months in my practical opinion...we saw it repeatedly that when Slush dipped down to ca. 33 PH  the blocks started hitting, the minute we returned to 40PH+ all of a sudden performance went south. In simple terms, it seemed that when one big miner left the pool things would return to "normal", when he returned it went to hell.   just from a standpoint of analyzing a pattern of events should Slush not have been able to pick up on this pattern and figured out where the problem was?

Still curious...
btiAndy
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February 08, 2016, 10:19:59 PM
 #21613

And one last thing, I must say I really enjoy reading your posts Jonny and I have learned a lot over the past few months from your posts...I just want to clarify my statement in my previous post regarding banning the offending miner; I did not mean ban the miner in advance...I think the bad part here is that Slush has stated he contacted this miner after discovering the issue and the solution was simply to "fix" the "unintentional" problem and let this miner continue mining without penalty...no matter if the act was intentional or non-intentional I think those of us who were affected by this problem should have been respected a bit more.

Of course I am speaking from a "blue-sky" customer service standpoint and nothing more, I am sure that legally Slush owes his miners no real duty of service and is not obligated  in any way to compensate miners for wasted time and hash on his pool...it is gambling in the end and we should all know that. I am just saying that for the common good this offending miner who has been supposedly identified by Slush as the cause of the withholding attack should have been removed from the mining pool as consideration to the other miners still there.
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February 09, 2016, 03:21:17 PM
 #21614

To address the concerns in your first reply... it's a tough bit of analysis.  In an ideal world, if the pool at 40PH was experiencing the same luck as the pool at 33PH, then it would be apparent that 7PH was withholding blocks.  If all 7PH belonged to a single miner, you found your culprit.  Unfortunately, the problem remains: you must wait some period of time before you are relatively certain that the miner isn't just unlucky.  I'm not sure how many, if any, pool operators have written this kind of analytics into their code.  It's a pretty simple bit of analysis: count shares submitted by miner vs number of block solutions.  If number of shares is some percentage over expectations, flag as potential block withholding.

That doesn't solve it, but merely alerts the pool operator something might be amiss.  Now the pool operator has to take action.  What action the operator takes is really the basis of your second reply.  Personally, I don't agree with Slush's decision to allow the miner to continue on his pool without any kind of repercussions.  "Sorry, my bad!" just doesn't cut it.  Intentional or not, if a miner is going to write his own custom firmware, that miner should be testing it on a simulated environment, not forcing the public to assume the risks of untested code.  I'm glad for the miners on the pool that the problem was found and addressed; however, if I were a miner on the pool, I'd be seriously considering going elsewhere if neither the offending miner, nor the pool operator were held accountable in some fashion.

Jonny's Pool - Mine with us and help us grow!  Support a pool that supports Bitcoin, not a hardware manufacturer's pockets!  No SPV cheats.  No empty blocks.
bctmke
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February 09, 2016, 03:54:14 PM
 #21615

I am just glad I left the pool a few months back before I realized how bad it was (I had happened to get lucky and come across Kano's pool and I liked the transparency far better so I switched over).

NXS is on the move!   Come subscribe to our subreddit  https://www.reddit.com/r/nexusearth/
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welshy82
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February 09, 2016, 06:02:07 PM
 #21616

7 hours a block

Current Round Duration   05 hrs at 46.70 Ph/s

Current time   2016-02-09 18:01:05
Current Round Start:   2016-02-09 12:46:51
Current Round Duration   05:14:21
Current Shares CDF:   74.35%
Current Bitcoin block, difficulty:   397583, 144116447847
Pool Luck (1 day, 7 days, 30 days):   91%, 125%, 95%
Total Shares in the Round:   196092066752
Pool Effective Hash Rate (30 min average):   46.70 Ph/s

time to leave slushes and goto kanos pool
ohmygod21
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February 09, 2016, 06:38:32 PM
 #21617

7 hours a block

Current Round Duration   05 hrs at 46.70 Ph/s

Current time   2016-02-09 18:01:05
Current Round Start:   2016-02-09 12:46:51
Current Round Duration   05:14:21
Current Shares CDF:   74.35%
Current Bitcoin block, difficulty:   397583, 144116447847
Pool Luck (1 day, 7 days, 30 days):   91%, 125%, 95%
Total Shares in the Round:   196092066752
Pool Effective Hash Rate (30 min average):   46.70 Ph/s

time to leave slushes and goto kanos pool

just now pool luck 124% / 1 day with no block found so there is a serioussssssss problem

jumped from 91 % at 124 % with no block found between your post welshy

Someone is stealing blocks for sure .

Edit1 , now just founded a block and 124% > 127% /day

Edit2 redrop to 96% /day , 1 hour later -_-


I m done with this pool , just leaving to kano after the end of my last rent .

disclaimer201
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February 09, 2016, 09:10:16 PM
 #21618

I have to say I now agree with previous posters that something is fishy. We need more transparency and the issue has been going on for far too long. I have some dark thoughts/fears that the mining pool could have been hacked in the recent past (this would not be for the first time) and that the ominous miner is Slush himself to mine back lost funds. Not sure if that would make any sense though  Huh
bittalc1
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February 09, 2016, 09:58:20 PM
 #21619

I have to say I now agree with previous posters that something is fishy. We need more transparency and the issue has been going on for far too long. I have some dark thoughts/fears that the mining pool could have been hacked in the recent past (this would not be for the first time) and that the ominous miner is Slush himself to mine back lost funds. Not sure if that would make any sense though  Huh
We all can speculate, but its not fair that we lost all that electricity and not earning shit because of this operator wants to keep things in dark. From the start i mined there but after i saw that the luck is 150℅ and we found two blocks only!! I mean WTF we are not sheeps we can see the deal here! Some fucktard is stealing and hideing his trails...
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February 09, 2016, 10:05:04 PM
 #21620

i would of thought he would come on and at least say something about what has happend rather than ignor everyone and not giving a explanation
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