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Author Topic: [4+ EH] Slush Pool (slushpool.com); Overt AsicBoost; World First Mining Pool  (Read 4373016 times)
krisgt30
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February 03, 2016, 11:31:21 PM
 #21561

Love how this pool hits 40ph and stops hitting blocks. Can we say withholding!
Exactly why I stopped mining on here. Took me only a couple of weeks to realize it by doing the simple math.

Can you explain how you did that? I wouldn't have thought simple maths is enough to prove your point in this case, so I'm keen to find out how you determined the correlation.

I know you're trying to belittle me since im a noobie, but I'll bite anyway, after some time mining slush, eligius, bitminter, kano.is, I took my speed, time mining, number of blocks found, and final payout for each block. Averaged it out, and found that slush was by far the worst for me.

www.bcmonster.com Multi pool, pools for BTC, BCA, LCC, KMD, HUSH and ZEN -Donate:1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
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organofcorti
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February 03, 2016, 11:41:50 PM
 #21562

Love how this pool hits 40ph and stops hitting blocks. Can we say withholding!
Exactly why I stopped mining on here. Took me only a couple of weeks to realize it by doing the simple math.

Can you explain how you did that? I wouldn't have thought simple maths is enough to prove your point in this case, so I'm keen to find out how you determined the correlation.

I know you're trying to belittle me since im a noobie, but I'll bite anyway, after some time mining slush, eligius, bitminter, kano.is, I took my speed, time mining, number of blocks found, and final payout for each block. Averaged it out, and found that slush was by far the worst for me.

Not trying to belittle you at all and I apologise if I came across that way. I've been working on this problem of Slush's luck for a while -- it's not an easy one to analyse -- and I wanted to know if I'd stupidly missed something simple.

Your maths is fine as far as it goes (EDIT: I was hoping for something that showed how the pool's hashrate affected the pool's luck), but you might also want to consider ways to make the comparisons between pools more valid. For example (assuming your hashrate is constant) compare just payouts over a similar number of blocks rather than similar time period, and I would use a large number of blocks.

Even over a hundred blocks, you're still going to see variance of about +/- 20% of expected. If one pool has a not unusually unlucky hundred blocks and another has a not unusually lucky hundred blocks, there could be a 40% difference between them - just due to variance.


EDIT: Also, if you're just considering time periods rather than blocks, then difference in variance could be exponentially greater.





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krisgt30
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February 03, 2016, 11:44:45 PM
Last edit: February 04, 2016, 12:06:47 AM by krisgt30
 #21563

Love how this pool hits 40ph and stops hitting blocks. Can we say withholding!
Exactly why I stopped mining on here. Took me only a couple of weeks to realize it by doing the simple math.

Can you explain how you did that? I wouldn't have thought simple maths is enough to prove your point in this case, so I'm keen to find out how you determined the correlation.

I know you're trying to belittle me since im a noobie, but I'll bite anyway, after some time mining slush, eligius, bitminter, kano.is, I took my speed, time mining, number of blocks found, and final payout for each block. Averaged it out, and found that slush was by far the worst for me.

Not trying to belittle you at all and I apologise if I came across that way. I've been working on this problem of Slush's luck for a while -- it's not an easy one to analyse -- and I wanted to know if I'd stupidly missed something simple.

Your maths is fine as far as it goes, but you might also want to consider ways to make the comparisons between pools more valid. For example (assuming your hashrate is constant) compare just payouts over a similar number of blocks rather than similar time period, and I would use a large number of blocks.

Even over a hundred blocks, you're still going to see variance of about +/- 20% of expected. If one pool has a not unusually unlucky hundred blocks and another has a not unusually lucky hundred blocks, there could be a 40% difference between them - just due to variance.






I understand the luck aspect, and the possibility of one pool getting extremely lucky and one not being lucky at all, but when I noticed that what it took me to make in 1 month in BTC at slush, I was able to make in another pool in one week (despite not having a ton of luck the week I mined it), I knew something was up.

www.bcmonster.com Multi pool, pools for BTC, BCA, LCC, KMD, HUSH and ZEN -Donate:1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
welshy82
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February 04, 2016, 01:41:49 PM
 #21564

just noticed it had 2 stale blocked verry close to each other Sad
ohmygod21
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February 06, 2016, 05:46:39 PM
 #21565

many blocks solved today
welshy82
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February 07, 2016, 12:01:26 PM
 #21566

Yea they fixed it now and adding something extra I seen on his Facebook
welshy82
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February 07, 2016, 01:13:41 PM
 #21567

he posted this

Dear miners,
we would like to inform you that we have detected and resolved an unintentional block withholding attack.

The issue has been discovered a week ago and we have immediately taken an action by contacting the particular miner. The cause turned out to be a bug in a custom mining firmware, which has been promptly fixed by the miner. We have no indication that there was any bad intention. The fixed firmware solved two blocks since then so we can consider this issue as resolved.

A recent time period of worse luck can be at least partly attributed to this incident.

Block withholding attack is a well-known weakness of the whole pool mining principle and no public pool is immune against it.

As a by-product of the bad luck investigation, we have implemented a new method how to mathematically prove that the pool does not cheat on miners. This feature will be released after the public interface has been tweaked. The release is planned towards the end of next week.
ohmygod21
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February 07, 2016, 03:29:47 PM
 #21568

Good job sir Cheesy . lets go slush pool
kano
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February 07, 2016, 09:53:48 PM
 #21569

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days Here on Bitcointalk: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
krisgt30
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February 07, 2016, 10:17:16 PM
 #21570

Come on, does anyone really believe it was a "random" miner?

www.bcmonster.com Multi pool, pools for BTC, BCA, LCC, KMD, HUSH and ZEN -Donate:1QGZQBhXMo2jVc45wLEsp2bn5agF8SZSuY
bittalc1
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February 08, 2016, 12:07:50 AM
 #21571

That message is just full of shit. Yea right miner was makeing problems.
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February 08, 2016, 02:53:43 AM
 #21572

This reeks of bullshit.
biggbox
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February 08, 2016, 03:16:34 AM
 #21573

he posted this

Dear miners,
we would like to inform you that we have detected and resolved an unintentional block withholding attack.

The issue has been discovered a week ago and we have immediately taken an action by contacting the particular miner. The cause turned out to be a bug in a custom mining firmware, which has been promptly fixed by the miner. We have no indication that there was any bad intention. The fixed firmware solved two blocks since then so we can consider this issue as resolved.

A recent time period of worse luck can be at least partly attributed to this incident.

Block withholding attack is a well-known weakness of the whole pool mining principle and no public pool is immune against it.

As a by-product of the bad luck investigation, we have implemented a new method how to mathematically prove that the pool does not cheat on miners. This feature will be released after the public interface has been tweaked. The release is planned towards the end of next week.


The correct thing to do is to simply inform the public:

(1) What is the make and model of the miner?
(2) What is the version of the custom firmware?
(3) How to detect such "rogue" miners?

Why did the pool operator not release such public service announcement?

1Cr9iLWm2dSGH8259VQd2wDzpkR63jGVjW
bitsolutions
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February 08, 2016, 03:16:49 AM
 #21574

Since nobody's posted it yet this is the announcement page of the block-withholding.

https://mining.bitcoin.cz/news/recent-low-luck-information/

Mining Software Developer.
kano
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February 08, 2016, 05:42:02 AM
 #21575

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days Here on Bitcointalk: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
d57heinz
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February 08, 2016, 09:38:24 AM
 #21576

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

AS i have aswell.. on their facebook page since that is the only place they check for support related shit.. I know crazy right!?? anyway we will see whats up since we were on slush about this since back at least as far as november 2015 from what ive seen posted on fb.  Looking forward to see how this is handled!

Best Regards
d57heinz

As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
welshy82
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February 08, 2016, 01:19:01 PM
 #21577

Well, the correct action would be to deduct the rewards paid to a miner who was withholding, and distribute them to the miners who were not paid what they should have been ...

It doesn't matter if it was accidental or not, the miner caused it and received payments that they should not have, and should have gone to the other miners.
The miners here should also be aware that for a pool to detect, with marginal certainly, that a miner is withholding, the miner would have had to mine more than the equivalent of 10 blocks and failed to find any blocks.

i.e. the miner would have been paid over 250BTC, while withholding, probably a lot more, that needs to be returned to the pool and distributed to the other miners.

I suggest you bring this up with the pool operator, since he was underpaying everyone by giving BTC to someone who was block withholding and he should be taking it back from them and returning it to the rest of the miners.

Also he should provide the bitcoin community with the details of what the miner was and the modifications made, to help stop it happening anywhere else ... unless he doesn't care?

--

I've sent support@bitcoin.cz an email saying they need to deal with this properly and a link to this post.

lets hope he does pay us some sort of compo lol or hes gonna lose a lot oif unhappy miners
btiAndy
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February 08, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
 #21578

Good to see Slush is trying to come clean, but of course the damage is done and I think it will take much for him to rebuild trust; agree there needs to be more disclosure on who this miner was and what/how the block withholding attack was accomplished.
ohmygod21
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February 08, 2016, 05:23:54 PM
 #21579

just wasted 4 Ph with incredible bad luck , 2 blocks > 23 h

3.80 btc loss =) hihaaaaa
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February 08, 2016, 06:38:33 PM
 #21580

Slush is not coming clean.  Far from it.  This issue was known about for weeks and the answer was always bad luck.  They knew there was an issue and did not do the right thing and inform their loyal miners that they could be subject to lose a lot of revenue.

I lost many BTC from this debacle and they have refused any compensation.

Bitrated user: TICH13.
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