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Author Topic: [150+ PH] SlushPool (slushpool.com); World's First Mining Pool  (Read 4092295 times)
organofcorti
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February 21, 2016, 11:03:26 AM
 #21721

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.


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bittalc1
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February 21, 2016, 11:21:11 AM
 #21722

Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..

ANd again .. .slush says this was a bad firmware in miners.. NOt a pool proxy.. so lets come with the info on the miners already..ill walk away once that info is out


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13158361#msg13158361
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13166550#msg13166550  this shows you i once supported slush.. but his handling of this issue is horrible in my eyes!   i think what pissed me off the most was his dead silence and total disregard for the issue... just kept telling me its luck move along.. F$%% that.. good thing i didnt!  Or i should say good for you Pekatete since you still mine here!!

Best regards
d57heinz

Whether you spotted the issue that long ago is neither here nor there, fact is (and as far as I am concerned) it has now been resolved. For what it is worth, I'll add that I will take slush's word over yours any day wihout batting an eyelid, and that is not a reflection on you.

By the way, I am NOT defending slush, just pointing out the facts as I see them, if anything, just to stem your tirade of twaddle (though clearly it is not working on that last one!).

Eventhough we all lost money here and now we should blindly belive slush and you that this is fixed. He said that he will give the findings so everyone can investigate. Do you really beleive that that was witholding attack?! What is the possibility that he took all that blocks and now is blaming that on witholding? Can you point some real facts and not just shilling here please!!
pekatete
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February 21, 2016, 11:31:08 AM
 #21723

Eventhough we all lost money here and now we should blindly belive slush and you that this is fixed.

Don't believe me, see the pool luck yourself .... does it look like it's been fixed like slush said?

He said that he will give the findings so everyone can investigate. Do you really beleive that that was witholding attack?! What is the possibility that he took all that blocks and now is blaming that on witholding?

If slush said he'll give the findings, then he will if he has not already done so, that I have no doubt, however, the probability that slush "took all those blocks" is a figment of your imagination. And yes, if he says it was a with-holding attack, I have every reason to believe it was such, but more importantly, I have NO reason at all to think it was not (emphasis on the latter).

Can you point some real truth and not just shilling here please!!

If I point you to the truth, would you believe it if you read it with your own eyes?

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February 21, 2016, 11:37:16 AM
 #21724

Eventhough we all lost money here and now we should blindly belive slush and you that this is fixed.

Don't believe me, see the pool luck yourself .... does it look like it's been fixed like slush said?

He said that he will give the findings so everyone can investigate. Do you really beleive that that was witholding attack?! What is the possibility that he took all that blocks and now is blaming that on witholding?

If slush said he'll give the findings, then he will if he has not already done so, that I have no doubt, however, the probability that slush "took all those blocks" is a figment of your imagination. And yes, if he says it was a with-holding attack, I have every reason to believe it was such, but more importantly, I have NO reason at all to think it was not (emphasis on the latter).

Can you point some real truth and not just shilling here please!!

If I point you to the truth, would you believe it if you read it with your own eyes?
Again no facts my friend. Maybe now is ok with the block findings but in near future that can happen again and with no proof he and we should blame on bad luck right?
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February 21, 2016, 11:40:17 AM
 #21725

Again no facts my friend. Maybe now is ok with the block findings but in near future that can happen again and with no proof he and we should blame on bad luck right?
You did not say whether you'd believe the facts .... but as you know, good AND bad luck happen, and it would not be a stretch of the imagination to attribute bad luck to .... bad luck, would it now?

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February 21, 2016, 11:52:03 AM
 #21726

Again no facts my friend. Maybe now is ok with the block findings but in near future that can happen again and with no proof he and we should blame on bad luck right?
You did not say whether you'd believe the facts .... but as you know, good AND bad luck happen, and it would not be a stretch of the imagination to attribute bad luck to .... bad luck, would it now?
Bitcointalk is big forum filled with lots of smart guys, creators of the stratum protocol and i think if he point some transparent facts they will chime in, investigate, point some real facts and proof and than i will beleive. You know the saying "innocent untill proven guilty", sadly in this case he is "guilty until proven innocent".
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February 21, 2016, 12:09:34 PM
 #21727

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.

Heh you missed my post to you about the whole of December? Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

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organofcorti
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February 21, 2016, 12:14:26 PM
 #21728

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.

Heh you missed my post to you about the whole of December? Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

That's not four months though?

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February 21, 2016, 12:17:16 PM
 #21729

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.

Heh you missed my post to you about the whole of December? Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

That's not four months though?
No idea about the previous months, just saying that was for the whole of December. And ridiculous bad luck.

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pekatete
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February 21, 2016, 12:36:24 PM
 #21730

Bitcointalk is big forum filled with lots of smart guys, creators of the stratum protocol and i think if he point some transparent facts they will chime in, investigate, point some real facts and proof and than i will beleive. You know the saying "innocent untill proven guilty", sadly in this case he is "guilty until proven innocent".

Facts are plainly there for all to see, if you choose to open your eyes and see them for what they truly are. Problem is you do not want to see them for what they are.
1. There was a block with-holding attack which negatively affected pool luck
2. The said attack was detected, miner identified and, after thorough investigation, the attack was attributed to buggy software
3. The offending miner's buggy software was patched with the un-doubtable expertise of the slushpool team which positively affected pool luck

The rest is the usual tripe by lesser pool operators fishing for miners, I have to say, slush keeps growing and that is telling.

organofcorti
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February 21, 2016, 12:49:48 PM
 #21731

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.

Heh you missed my post to you about the whole of December? Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

That's not four months though?
No idea about the previous months, just saying that was for the whole of December. And ridiculous bad luck.

Yep, you're right -- it was all December (1.26 for 228 blocks p>= 0.9998722) , not January (1.059126 for 202 blocks p>=0.8016885).

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d57heinz
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February 21, 2016, 03:37:44 PM
 #21732

<snip>
Do i really need to go back thru my post history to find how many months ago i started barking about this..  ITS BEEN Far too long ago now.. Esp the size of the miner in question.  Should have been more obvious to someone that is a great pool op or so caring of the miners like you say!  guess ill check my first fb post and on here about this exact problem.  Only to come to find out after 4 months i was right.. Seriously man defending slush makes you look the fool..
<snip>

I'm not seeing four months of significantly bad luck here, just around mid December to maybe end January.

Heh you missed my post to you about the whole of December? Wink
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

That's not four months though?
No idea about the previous months, just saying that was for the whole of December. And ridiculous bad luck.

Yep, you're right -- it was all December (1.26 for 228 blocks p>= 0.9998722) , not January (1.059126 for 202 blocks p>=0.8016885).

but it was going down hill two months prior to my dec 5 th post  i just thought that it would correct.. i held my breath for two freaking months then i decided i needed to start bringing attention to this.. Thats why you dont see it for the whole picture.. There were so many days in those two months prior that we had 30 % block days of normal.. and then followed by several days of 70 %.. just because your weekly stats dont show the day to day.. it was much worse that it appears.  Hell without the attacker who knows we could have been at kano standing of 106 % for the year instead slush was pushing to go lower than 90 % for the year.. and weekly stats he was barely finding more than 70 %..  im not going thru your weekly block maker stats organ but your know what im talking about.  This started well before dec 5th  its just wasnt till then when im like this cant be all variance!

Anyway. it is what it is.. you all seem to trust slush.. Lets see if he comes out with the brand and firmware of miners.. If that info never comes he was lying about the real reason for the shit luck.

https://slushpool.com/news/2016/02/06/recent-low-luck-information/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg13183847#msg13183847  if you read from this message on other members chime in on them leaving months ago due to this!!.. just saying..

best Regards
d57heinz


EDIT   What i think is happening here. is im compounding the issues he had prior to this.. which i think are all really related to again i keep going back to server issues..   https://slushpool.com/news/2015/10/23/recent-orphaned-blocks-explanation/     He comments on facebook about this to a person and they say this.. 
Nepa Luzinka "Is soemthing cooking captain? three blocks on the trot without any fees ...."
Like · Reply · November 18, 2015 at 8:55pm

Slush pool
Slush pool "Hi Nepa, we have upgraded Bitcoind to new version yesterday and experiencing few difficulties. But we fixed it already and everything should be working fine now. wink emoticon"
Like · Reply · 1 · November 19, 2015 at 8:05am

But you have to remember for them to even start to think the orphans were a problem they let that happen for a month or so aswell.. i mean hell you cant let shit ride when its this serious!


And back in october going further back. he did some work on it to support bip 101  and then got attacked left and right.. EVER since that point on.. it has been going down hill.  Starting with the orphans  then all of sudden bad luck as well.> Orphans got fixed and then the bad luck continued to get worse.. then he decides that orphans arent the whole story.. >> A little honestly goes a long way.. I see a pattern of repeated failures going back as far as oct 2015 with the support of bip 101 (BTCXT).. 


As in nature, all is ebb and tide, all is wave motion, so it seems that in all branches of industry, alternating currents - electric wave motion - will have the sway. ~Nikola Tesla~
pekatete
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February 21, 2016, 04:00:20 PM
 #21733

but it was going down hill two months prior to my dec 5 th post  i just thought that it would correct.. i held my breath for two freaking months then i decided i needed to start bringing attention to this.. Thats why you dont see it for the whole picture.. There were so many days in those two months prior that we had 30 % block days of normal.. and then followed by several days of 70 %.. just because your weekly stats dont show the day to day.. it was much worse that it appears.  Hell without the attacker who knows we could have been at kano standing of 106 % for the year instead slush was pushing to go lower than 90 % for the year.. and weekly stats he was barely finding more than 70 %..  im not going thru your weekly block maker stats organ but your know what im talking about.  This started well before dec 5th  its just wasnt till then when im like this cant be all variance!

Anyway. it is what it is.. you all seem to trust slush.. Lets see if he comes out with the brand and firmware of miners.. If that info never comes he was lying about the real reason for the shit luck.  https://slushpool.com/news/2016/02/06/recent-low-luck-information/

best Regards
d57heinz


If your enduring argument is you do not trust slush, then go mine somewhere else that has a pool operator you trust, END OF STORY.

Conceptually (and sematically) in cryptocurrency pool mining terms, you could not be more wrong in not trusting the very person who by many accounts "invented" pool mining (and the stratum protocol that made it feasible) in the first place. That is quite aside from the fact that despite being the longest existing pool around, such an accusation has NEVER been laid against slush, let alone the lack of any concrete proof to back up your accusation being brought for scrutiny.

The stats and facts speak for themselves, and assertions otherwise - akin to applying a razor to a hair strand only to be emphatically empirically disproved (aptly demonstrated by the quack pool op fishing for miners) cannot alter them. YOU are wrong to accuse slush of dishonesty, and the quack pool op fanning your ignorance is the dishonest one (that in more ways than fishing for miners .... but you'll find out in time).

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February 21, 2016, 04:18:49 PM
 #21734

d57heinz : unfortunately you cant talk logically to those of low IQ such as pekatete. just look at his lack of trust rating. If he wants to continue to mine on slush and throw away his money/profits to a lying thieving pool operator then let him.

Pekatete: how about you actually shutting up for once and reading posts and forming intelligent responses instead of mindless blind following of a pool owner that has led you all around by you johnsons as he steals from you by overcharging for pool fees and for allowing the withholding attack to happen and not revealing who did it and what miner/software they were using.

Amazing how this "miner" has been identified yet hasn't been reveled. Makes one think why he/she/them haven't been identified to the public. or why themselves haven't come on here and apologized. My thoughts is that the "attacker" and slush were working together or the attacker was slush himself. why not toss a miner on the pool and get paid for work he hasn't done. O that's right that's what hes doing right now with his outrageous pool fee, getting paid for doing nothing. for the fees he charges he should be on here posting constantly.

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February 21, 2016, 04:52:43 PM
 #21735

d57heinz : unfortunately you cant talk logically to those of low IQ such as pekatete. just look at his lack of trust rating. If he wants to continue to mine on slush and throw away his money/profits to a lying thieving pool operator then let him.

Pekatete: how about you actually shutting up for once and reading posts and forming intelligent responses instead of mindless blind following of a pool owner that has led you all around by you johnsons as he steals from you by overcharging for pool fees and for allowing the withholding attack to happen and not revealing who did it and what miner/software they were using.

Amazing how this "miner" has been identified yet hasn't been reveled. Makes one think why he/she/them haven't been identified to the public. or why themselves haven't come on here and apologized. My thoughts is that the "attacker" and slush were working together or the attacker was slush himself. why not toss a miner on the pool and get paid for work he hasn't done. O that's right that's what hes doing right now with his outrageous pool fee, getting paid for doing nothing. for the fees he charges he should be on here posting constantly.

You got an axe to grind? You are being fed nonsense by quack pool ops and spout it straight out without giving it thought and you have the audacity to lay claim to anything like an IQ score? That on the back of your only "evidence" being slush has not revealed who the "attacker" was?
It has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the gibberish you've been fed by the quacks is just that and there's nothing to it at all. Now if you want to lay claim to being the person that "discovered" how low luck was and thus detecting there was an attack on the pool, what has that got to do with anything?

If you think slush is not trustworthy or that he charges exhorbitant fees, do not mine there. Feel free to pop over to the slow cooking heist pool .... but you have been warned, dishonesty, as has been clearly laid bare of the quack pool op fishing for miners, is an ingrained thing ... it is not learnt. It is just a matter of time before the big opportunity presents itself to THAT quack pool op and you'll only have yourself to blame .... mark my words.

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February 21, 2016, 05:02:17 PM
 #21736

Do you even realize that none of us speaking are pool operators (other than ck)?  All I have been saying is, just because it was okay in the past for pools to have the mentality of "oh well, we had a block withholding attack, nothing we can do about it." ----Does not mean here in 2016--- with difficulty being so high, and virtually every home/hobby miner resorting to mining in a pool because of the centralization of hashrate, that it should still be accepted; nor the norm.

You would expect an OG pool such as slush to understand this more than anyone, and maybe, to have a reserve set aside from his fees, to say something to the effect of "hey guys, we just had a withholding attack, but I set apart an insurance policy wallet for just the occasion, you will be paid out based on the average amount of blocks we find a day for the current month, oh and btw the ip address, machine, firmware in question is xxxxxx, that would go over with all of us wayyyyy better than what has happened. Maybe I grew up in an area of the world where we are taught to be much less trustworthy than some of you, and that is why it appears to us that you are blindly following.

I guess maybe I am hoping for too much, but for someone who claims to have an extensive past in the banking industry, something like this would exactly be in place.

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pekatete
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February 21, 2016, 05:27:05 PM
 #21737

Do you even realize that none of us speaking are pool operators (other than ck)?  All I have been saying is, just because it was okay in the past for pools to have the mentality of "oh well, we had a block withholding attack, nothing we can do about it." ----Does not mean here in 2016--- with difficulty being so high, and virtually every home/hobby miner resorting to mining in a pool because of the centralization of hashrate, that it should still be accepted; nor the norm.

You would expect an OG pool such as slush to understand this more than anyone, and maybe, to have a reserve set aside from his fees, to say something to the effect of "hey guys, we just had a withholding attack, but I set apart an insurance policy wallet for just the occasion, you will not be paid out based on the average amount of blocks we find a day for the current month, oh and btw the ip address, machine, firmware in question is xxxxxx, that would go over with all of us wayyyyy better than what has happened. Maybe I grew up in an area of the world where we are taught to be much less trustworthy than some of you, and that is why it appears to us that you are blindly following.

I guess maybe I am hoping for too much, but for someone who claims to have an extensive past in the banking industry, something like this would exactly be in place.

Actually, I totally understand the argument for such attacks not being accepted as the norm, but that one happened to slush can not make the pool responsible for such an attack happening. You also need to know that this pool mining phenomenon is not even a decade old, so is still evolving, and in most aspects, slush is the leader in improvements to the protocol. I am confident that future block with-holding attacks, on any pool going forward, will be easier to detect on the back of the fantastic work the slushpool team put to identifying the attack on the pool.

That said, we as miners can not expect to have our cake and eat it at the same time, and that is with regard to expecting the pools to re-imburse us when they are the victim of, for example a with-holding attack, but then demand low to no fees for mining at the pool. Insurance policies have a cost and that would inevitably have to be met by the miners, which would mean an increase in fees.

Bottom line, we are where we are, and slush can not be blamed for being attacked. The pool is one of the most resillient on the network as was demonstrated during the recent DDoS attacks targeting pools / nodes voting for BIP101, but block with-holding attacks, as has been demonstrated, are not easily detectable ..... well, it had to come to pass for it to get on the radar.

Now, unless you believe slush should have a crystal ball to know what kind of threat / attack is next on the horizon, I'll take their word for what it truly is worth over some opinion that has been pumped up based on false information by a dishonest pool op fishing for miners.

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February 21, 2016, 07:25:58 PM
 #21738

Do you even realize that none of us speaking are pool operators (other than ck)?  All I have been saying is, just because it was okay in the past for pools to have the mentality of "oh well, we had a block withholding attack, nothing we can do about it." ----Does not mean here in 2016--- with difficulty being so high, and virtually every home/hobby miner resorting to mining in a pool because of the centralization of hashrate, that it should still be accepted; nor the norm.

You would expect an OG pool such as slush to understand this more than anyone, and maybe, to have a reserve set aside from his fees, to say something to the effect of "hey guys, we just had a withholding attack, but I set apart an insurance policy wallet for just the occasion, you will not be paid out based on the average amount of blocks we find a day for the current month, oh and btw the ip address, machine, firmware in question is xxxxxx, that would go over with all of us wayyyyy better than what has happened. Maybe I grew up in an area of the world where we are taught to be much less trustworthy than some of you, and that is why it appears to us that you are blindly following.

I guess maybe I am hoping for too much, but for someone who claims to have an extensive past in the banking industry, something like this would exactly be in place.

Actually, I totally understand the argument for such attacks not being accepted as the norm, but that one happened to slush can not make the pool responsible for such an attack happening. You also need to know that this pool mining phenomenon is not even a decade old, so is still evolving, and in most aspects, slush is the leader in improvements to the protocol. I am confident that future block with-holding attacks, on any pool going forward, will be easier to detect on the back of the fantastic work the slushpool team put to identifying the attack on the pool.

That said, we as miners can not expect to have our cake and eat it at the same time, and that is with regard to expecting the pools to re-imburse us when they are the victim of, for example a with-holding attack, but then demand low to no fees for mining at the pool. Insurance policies have a cost and that would inevitably have to be met by the miners, which would mean an increase in fees.

Bottom line, we are where we are, and slush can not be blamed for being attacked. The pool is one of the most resillient on the network as was demonstrated during the recent DDoS attacks targeting pools / nodes voting for BIP101, but block with-holding attacks, as has been demonstrated, are not easily detectable ..... well, it had to come to pass for it to get on the radar.

Now, unless you believe slush should have a crystal ball to know what kind of threat / attack is next on the horizon, I'll take their word for what it truly is worth over some opinion that has been pumped up based on false information by a dishonest pool op fishing for miners.
Omg man you have no proof of anything and yet still you shiil about them! How much BTC did slush paid you to shill here? Wtf is going on in your brain if he did not paid anything... Im sorry if i insult you, but we lost money hello money because we trusted him! And yet without proof you still make him honorable and you try to bring points up for him! I really dont understand you...
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February 21, 2016, 07:31:49 PM
 #21739

I remember the first design of pools webpage, I was mining there for cople month. Last year I returneturned and its great, nothing else to say
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February 21, 2016, 07:57:00 PM
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Omg man you have no proof of anything and yet still you shiil about them! How much BTC did slush paid you to shill here? Wtf is going on in your brain if he did not paid anything... Im sorry if i insult you, but we lost money hello money because we trusted him! And yet without proof you still make him honorable and you try to bring points up for him! I really dont understand you...

I do feel for you if you actually lost money (even if you only think or believe that you lost money, I still feel for you), however my point is simple, slush DID NOT steal it from you, that much everyone knows. Actually, I am not sure ANYONE has what you percieve to have been stolen from you as a block with-holding attack does not necessarily mean the attacker actually kept the block reward to themselves.

What is beyond any shred of doubt though is that slush is an honest (and if you want honorable) pool operator, and his pool was a VICTIM of the block with-holding attack. Now, if you want me to join you in badgering and castigating slushpool for being a victim, I kindly refuse. Unless by mistaken identity, it is abominable in any culture, law or natural justice to victimise a victim, and to see a quack, slow cooking heist pool operator attempting to aid the victimisation through plain dishonesty is diabolical (for lack of a better word).

To paraphrase a famous American politician:
1. That you lost money as a result of the block with-holding attack is a known unknown.
2. That slushpool was a victim of a block with-holding attack is a known known.
So there ... that's what's going on in my brain since you asked.

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