[ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development

[Joe_Bauers]

So far, this is the only pull request I've received to fix this issue.

https://github.com/grokouser/yacoin/commit/34f795b1362b068e313d2f47ff3428aaf1a217df

Which is basically the same thing that sairon proposes.

[Gorgoy]

So if a fork is made all the current coins would dissapear? 

No a fork only affects the logic for determining the valid chain going forward from a specific block (in this case)

Question, what happens if not everyone changes their wallet and some people continue using the older wallet, for whatever reason? Are there then two YACoins out there?

[ilostcoins]

So far, this is the only pull request I've received to fix this issue.

https://github.com/grokouser/yacoin/commit/34f795b1362b068e313d2f47ff3428aaf1a217df

Which is basically the same thing that sairon proposes.

That's the original proposal. I think sairon has a newer one (in a pastebin he deleted) which mainly uses POW difficulty as trust and let POS block inherit the trust score from previous POW block.

[sairon]

So far, this is the only pull request I've received to fix this issue.

https://github.com/grokouser/yacoin/commit/34f795b1362b068e313d2f47ff3428aaf1a217df

Which is basically the same thing that sairon proposes.

That's the original proposal. I think sairon has a newer one (in a pastebin he deleted) which mainly uses POW difficulty as trust and let POS block inherit the trust score from previous POW block.

I have a habit of setting quite short expiration periods for my pastebins.

[Joe_Bauers]

So far, this is the only pull request I've received to fix this issue.

https://github.com/grokouser/yacoin/commit/34f795b1362b068e313d2f47ff3428aaf1a217df

Which is basically the same thing that sairon proposes.

That's the original proposal. I think sairon has a newer one (in a pastebin he deleted) which mainly uses POW difficulty as trust and let POS block inherit the trust score from previous POW block.

I have a habit of setting quite short expiration periods for my pastebins.

Send a pull request for all of your recent changes when you have a moment.  Block 400000 (!!!) is coming up soon so if anyone else wants to provide feedback or alternate solutions do it soon. If not, I'm going to merge sairon's changes - probably by the end of the weekend.

[Joe_Bauers]

In other news, old c coder has been able to compile a native MSVC++ version of yacoind (https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/pull/17) and I will merge that to testing (or maybe YAC-MSVC++) once the outstanding issues are resolved. Anyone that is able to test it out, please do so. This (I believe) makes YAC the first coin that can be compiled in MSVC++ since the early days of Bitcoin. I'm not a fan of windows and neither is sairon, but there are a lot of extremely talented people out there (like Ron and Satoshi  ) who are masters on that platform, and I believe it will bring YAC to a whole new group of people. 

 

[Coin.millionair]

Is anyone out there who are  succesfully mine YACOIN with cgminer
Is it possible to mine it with GPU or only with CPU ?

I cant get cpuminer nor cgminer to work.
Always get error message "no reply by empty server"
or
if hashes, then all package rejected, 0 accepted.


Help or advice (proper settings) needed !!!

Thank You in advance for ur replies...

[aso118]

Is anyone out there who are  succesfully mine YACOIN with cgminer
Is it possible to mine it with GPU or only with CPU ?

I cant get cpuminer nor cgminer to work.
Always get error message "no reply by empty server"
or
if hashes, then all package rejected, 0 accepted.


Help or advice (proper settings) needed !!!

Thank You in advance for ur replies...

YAC requires a special mining software because of the n-factor and the scrypt-jane algorithm.  It can be download from here: http://yacointalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,350.0.html 

Right now (IMOP), it is more profitable to CPU mine YAC and GPU mine something else.  I'm been trading my GPU mined coins for YAC on cryptsy and bter.

Send a pull request for all of your recent changes when you have a moment.  Block 400000 (!!!) is coming up soon so if anyone else wants to provide feedback or alternate solutions do it soon. If not, I'm going to merge sairon's changes - probably by the end of the weekend.

I'm in favor of sairon's fix at block 400,000.  I think it will fix the immediate issue and will be easy for the community to implement.  But I do think we should consider the following...

Our block target for YAC is one minute.  This would imply that there would be a maximum of 720 POS blocks per day.  As YAC continues to grow, this may not offer many opportunities for people to mint their transactions.  Therefore, is it possible to....

1) Mint more than one transaction at once/per block? (i.e. Five transactions of 10 YAC w/ one coin-year each, in an unlocked wallet would mint in the same block, and be returned a single transaction (50.50 YAC)
2) Increase/remove the 'coin-age' cap? (I believe transactions stop gaining 'coin-age' after 90 days) 

This would help reduce the number of PoS blocks generated by a single user and ensure they wouldn't loose any coin-age / 'interest' on their unspent transactions. 

[ilostcoins]

Is the N change enforced by timestamps? If so, would it open a path for some kind of fake timestamps attack? (Like faking older timestamps -> smaller N allowed -> same hardware get much higher hashrate, difficulty and trust score in blocks.)

[sairon]

Created pull requests for the PoS fix for both master and testing branch. Changed the block number for switch to be #420000 as to give users more time to inspect code and start using new version - this should occur around Feb 11. I've disabled the clock drift change for now as it's not quite needed (that reverting commit could be reverted to enable it). Lemme know what you think.

In other news, old c coder has been able to compile a native MSVC++ version of yacoind (https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin/pull/17) and I will merge that to testing (or maybe YAC-MSVC++) once the outstanding issues are resolved. Anyone that is able to test it out, please do so. This (I believe) makes YAC the first coin that can be compiled in MSVC++ since the early days of Bitcoin. I'm not a fan of windows and neither is sairon, but there are a lot of extremely talented people out there (like Ron and Satoshi   ) who are masters on that platform, and I believe it will bring YAC to a whole new group of people.

Wow, seems like it's been quite a lot of work. The #ifdef's don't look nice, but dunno if it can be done any other way. Thumbs up!

Our block target for YAC is one minute.  This would imply that there would be a maximum of 720 POS blocks per day.  As YAC continues to grow, this may not offer many opportunities for people to mint their transactions.  Therefore, is it possible to....

1) Mint more than one transaction at once/per block? (i.e. Five transactions of 10 YAC w/ one coin-year each, in an unlocked wallet would mint in the same block, and be returned a single transaction (50.50 YAC)
2) Increase/remove the 'coin-age' cap? (I believe transactions stop gaining 'coin-age' after 90 days)  

This would help reduce the number of PoS blocks generated by a single user and ensure they wouldn't loose any coin-age / 'interest' on their unspent transactions.  

PoS target interval is 10 minutes. Setting it too low, however, would somewhat reduce the security of the network (lowering the active stake volume 10 times faster and we don't yet have enough PoS minters to negate this effect).

Problem with #1 is that it would kinda defeat the PoS minting pseudonymity if you would merge multiple addresses into one PoS block.

#2 would IMO also be bad as it would allow someone to absolutely dominate PoS minting for quite some time (as his coins would have a huge chance to be selected for PoS). You too late, you lose. 90 days is a plenty of time.

Is the N change enforced by timestamps? If so, would it open a path for some kind of fake timestamps attack? (Like faking older timestamps -> smaller N allowed -> same hardware get much higher hashrate, difficulty and trust score in blocks.)

Yes, Nfactor changes are based on timestamps. However, it's not much of an issue as timestamp of a block can't be earlier than that of the previous block (simplified - it's calculated from median time and clock drift, etc).

[sairon]

Errrm... So today I decided to investigate the performance issues of my block explorer.
You know how some pages take literally ages to load, eg. the one for the richest address?

Although the poor VPS has only 590MB available RAM (with another 1GB as swap), the bottleneck is actually the CPU...

So I sifted through the bitcoin-abe source code for hours, just to stumble upon this: http://gregsramblings.com/2011/02/07/amazon-ec2-micro-instance-cpu-steal/

TL;DR: FUCK YOU AMAZON!

I have yet to decide whether I'll switch to a bigger instance or ditch amazon altogether. Do you have any good VPS provider recommendations? I tried chunkhost for a bit, but my VPS got restarted several times during a one month period, which is unacceptable. The EC2 instance has not had a single unwanted reboot since I started it, quite impressive.

[Joe_Bauers]

Errrm... So today I decided to investigate the performance issues of my block explorer.
You know how some pages take literally ages to load, eg. the one for the richest address?

Although the poor VPS has only 590MB available RAM (with another 1GB as swap), the bottleneck is actually the CPU...

So I sifted through the bitcoin-abe source code for hours, just to stumble upon this: http://gregsramblings.com/2011/02/07/amazon-ec2-micro-instance-cpu-steal/

TL;DR: FUCK YOU AMAZON!

I have yet to decide whether I'll switch to a bigger instance or ditch amazon altogether. Do you have any good VPS provider recommendations? I tried chunkhost for a bit, but my VPS got restarted several times during a one month period, which is unacceptable. The EC2 instance has not had a single unwanted reboot since I started it, quite impressive.

Sux. Still, as you mentioned it is pretty reliable and it will be hard to find something better in that price range.  I've heard a lot of good things about this place lately but never used them so have no clue if good or not.   http://www.dreamhost.com/servers/vps/

[aso118]

Our block target for YAC is one minute.  This would imply that there would be a maximum of 720 POS blocks per day.  As YAC continues to grow, this may not offer many opportunities for people to mint their transactions.  Therefore, is it possible to....

1) Mint more than one transaction at once/per block? (i.e. Five transactions of 10 YAC w/ one coin-year each, in an unlocked wallet would mint in the same block, and be returned a single transaction (50.50 YAC)
2) Increase/remove the 'coin-age' cap? (I believe transactions stop gaining 'coin-age' after 90 days)  

This would help reduce the number of PoS blocks generated by a single user and ensure they wouldn't loose any coin-age / 'interest' on their unspent transactions.  

PoS target interval is 10 minutes. Setting it too low, however, would somewhat reduce the security of the network (lowering the active stake volume 10 times faster and we don't yet have enough PoS minters to negate this effect).

Problem with #1 is that it would kinda defeat the PoS minting pseudonymity if you would merge multiple addresses into one PoS block.

#2 would IMO also be bad as it would allow someone to absolutely dominate PoS minting for quite some time (as his coins would have a huge chance to be selected for PoS). You too late, you lose. 90 days is a plenty of time.

So we still think transactions will have a reasonable chance of being minted in 90 days?  If so - that voids all of my concerns above. 

I thought if the update prevented two POS blocks from being being consecutive, this would reduce the number of POS blocks to 720 per day.  With less POS blocks, I was concerned that our transactions may sit for months (or years) before having a chance of being minted.  Transactions would quickly hit their coin-age cap (90 days) and only a static few (~720) transactions would be minted each day.  I have this issue with PPC - I have several transactions that haven't been minted in over a year and they are no longer gaining coin-age.  They are all reasonably sized and have hundreds of coin-years in age.  Never the less, they aren't minting - making them less appealing to hang on to (not to mention the full year I've wasted holding on to them).  I just wanted to make sure we didn't introduce a bottleneck like this to YAC.

[Coin.millionair]

Is anyone out there who are  succesfully mine YACOIN with cgminer
Is it possible to mine it with GPU or only with CPU ?

I cant get cpuminer nor cgminer to work.
Always get error message "no reply by empty server"
or
if hashes, then all package rejected, 0 accepted.


Help or advice (proper settings) needed !!!

Thank You in advance for ur replies...

YAC requires a special mining software because of the n-factor and the scrypt-jane algorithm.  It can be download from here: http://yacointalk.com/forum/index.php/topic,350.0.html  

I have downloaded already.
Tried with CPUminer and also with YACminer (whjich is actually a modified cgminer for YAC) but no soccess at all

Could You please one of You who are mining give me a proper command line
With my settings is always error message like "no reply by emty server" or only rejected with boooos


Thank You in advance.
You can hit me by PM as well.

[aso118]

I have downloaded already.
Tried with CPUminer and also with YACminer (whjich is actually a modified cgminer for YAC) but no soccess at all

Could You please one of You who are mining give me a proper command line
With my settings is always error message like "no reply by emty server" or only rejected with boooos


Thank You in advance.
You can hit me by PM as well.

For GPU I use the following command line:

Code:

start yacminer.exe --scrypt -o http://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -u *user* -p *pass* -w 128 --lookup-gap 2 -I 8 --thread-concurrency 8192 -g 2 --gpu-engine 1200 --gpu-memclock 900 --gpu-powertune 20

For CPU I'm use:

Code:

start minerd-corei7.exe -a scrypt-jane -t 4 -s 2 -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -u *user* -p *pass* 

Which pool are you using?  Maybe try yac.coinmine.pl?  I haven't had any problems with it.

[Coin.millionair]

Thx man for ur quick respond
I was trying many pools, but id like to mine on yacoin.pl definitely.

I will give a try with the settings u have shared with me. Thx again.
May i ask you what hashrate do u have with CPU and with GPU ?
What CPU and GPU u have ?


I have corei7 and ATI 7990 (3 pcs of this beast

Im curious about the possible hashing rates.

[Coin.millionair]

Tried for GPU. No success

Starting like this:


No output for minutes (GPU is not working, no temp raising at all)

Then this error is coming:




Idea ?
This is testing on an ATI 5870, which has been mining for months (so capable) till 7990 is arrived.

[sairon]

Sux. Still, as you mentioned it is pretty reliable and it will be hard to find something better in that price range.  I've heard a lot of good things about this place lately but never used them so have no clue if good or not.   http://www.dreamhost.com/servers/vps/

Thanks. Or maybe I should redo the whole server to handle reboots gracefully (erm... at all ). I'm surprised it even works as is TBH.  

So we still think transactions will have a reasonable chance of being minted in 90 days?  If so - that voids all of my concerns above.  

Well, it the short/mid-term, yes. No clue if it will hold long-term. But even then, this aspect can be changed without a hard-fork if most of the nodes will be honest (at least short-term ) by increasing the minimum amount of YAC required for PoS and bumping the coin split threshold up a little - thus decreasing the number of PoS blocks required by a single address to get interest on all of its coins.

I thought if the update prevented two POS blocks from being being consecutive, this would reduce the number of POS blocks to 720 per day.  With less POS blocks, I was concerned that our transactions may sit for months (or years) before having a chance of being minted.  Transactions would quickly hit their coin-age cap (90 days) and only a static few (~720) transactions would be minted each day.  I have this issue with PPC - I have several transactions that haven't been minted in over a year and they are no longer gaining coin-age.  They are all reasonably sized and have hundreds of coin-years in age.  Never the less, they aren't minting - making them less appealing to hang on to (not to mention the full year I've wasted holding on to them).  I just wanted to make sure we didn't introduce a bottleneck like this to YAC.

I've rewritten the code to actually allow consecutive PoS blocks, but only give non-zero trust to the first one. Also, if my math is correct, YAC is supposed to have 144 PoS blocks/day (10 minute interval), not 720.

[Coin.millionair]

I have downloaded already.
Tried with CPUminer and also with YACminer (whjich is actually a modified cgminer for YAC) but no soccess at all

Could You please one of You who are mining give me a proper command line
With my settings is always error message like "no reply by emty server" or only rejected with boooos


Thank You in advance.
You can hit me by PM as well.

For GPU I use the following command line:

Code:

start yacminer.exe --scrypt -o http://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -u *user* -p *pass* -w 128 --lookup-gap 2 -I 8 --thread-concurrency 8192 -g 2 --gpu-engine 1200 --gpu-memclock 900 --gpu-powertune 20

For CPU I'm use:

Code:

start minerd-corei7.exe -a scrypt-jane -t 4 -s 2 -o stratum+tcp://yac.coinmine.pl:9088 -u *user* -p *pass* 

Which pool are you using?  Maybe try yac.coinmine.pl?  I haven't had any problems with it.

Tried CPU (it is working)
With 8 threads im having 0.8 Khash/s (0.1 / thread)


IS IT NORMAL with a core i7

[Coin.millionair]

Ok Guys.
Im changing my "tactic" !

I offer 2000 YAC to the ONE, who can 1st get me to mine YACoin with my 7990s on: http://yac.coinmine.pl
It is around 0.1 BTC !

Tutor me step by step (NO worries, im not new(bie) at mining at all ! Im mining for months on different pools with different scryptcooins.)
and if you are able to get it mine properly, i will transfer my first mined 2000 YAC to ur wallet !!!

PM me, or even better, you can find me on:coin.millionair@gmail.com

Waiting for ur messages.

Thank You in advance...
Cheers