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Author Topic: DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com  (Read 87839 times)
Dr.Mann
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April 10, 2018, 07:29:22 PM
Last edit: April 10, 2018, 08:17:56 PM by Dr.Mann
Merited by frodocooper (3)
 #1841


The mining industry is still young enough and its hardware rare enough that regulators still don't fully understand them.

I don't believe anyone thinks that you are wrong. It's just that people don't care enough to not purchase. You hit the nail on the head with the mining industry being young and crypto in general very unregulated. I believe you have made your point (many times now), but you have to accept people are not imbeciles and have spent good money based on the limited/minimal information they have available to them. It was a gamble that has paid off for some people. I do not think that many people would buy a car, no matter what promises are made or how cheap it is, from a manufacturer that has none of the accountability details you have repeatedly says. But Crypto is not the automotive industry. [Emphasis added.] [....]

Some would-be customers absolutely do care enough about these lingering, unanswered questions about Halong Mining -- enough not to purchase from it. Others are unconcerned or less concerned. I've been committed to trying to help us all uncover basic facts about Halong Mining and MyRig, Inc., and all of us should care about the truth and make the best decisions possible for each one of us. If an informed buyer wants to buy from Halong, then please have at it.

I agree with your point that buying from Halong Mining "was a gamble", but I can't say I agree with your point that the purchase "has paid off for some people." Products from Batch 1 are just reportedly getting into the hands of purchasers, and we do not know how they will perform or their failure rate. It was not disclosed to us before purchasing that the units may be used only on a limited number of pools (due to AsicBoost), so that was a material fact not advertised that limits their usage. We also do not know if Halong will honor its 6 month warranty or if it will even remain operating for the duration of the warranty period. Halong said the AsicBoost license negotiation was a reason for its pre-release secrecy, but we now see that Halong has continued to maintain its secrecy, so that has not really worked out for those purchasers, including myself, who expected to learn a reasonable degree about the company by now.

Certainly, "Crypto is not the automotive industry," as you pointedly noted, but a number of similarities exist between mining for cryptocurrency and driving an automobile:

(1) Both consume energy that have fire safety considerations that any responsible operator must consider.

(2) Both activities pose a risk to human life, especially if using a defective product.

(3) Consumers of both products must adhere to strict rules and standards when operating them or face significant liability, including fines or imprisonment. Yes, believe it or not, if you negligently operate a miner and burn your and your neighbor's house down, just as if you negligently operate an automobile, you could be guilty of manslaughter if someone is killed due to your negligence. In the case of both products, if you are operating a miner or a car from a totally anonymous manufacturer, the operator assumes a greater degree of liability since the owner is on notice that the lack of accountability or trustworthiness of the seller is a known issue.

(4) Consumers of both products care about the warranties of each, and to that extent, many purchasers care about the credibility of the party issuing the warranty. The more of each product a consumer purchases, the more he or she is going to care about the warranty and the credibility of the issuer of the warranty.

(5) Manufacturers of both products are required under law and long-standing widely accepted business norms to be accountable for their actions, including negligence (e.g., the release of a defective product) or intentional bad acts (e.g., theft of IP, or non-compliance with a patent license).

I genuinely hope it works out for purchasers of the DragonMint, including myself. It might. But then again, it might not. Time will tell. As you noted, buying from Halong "was a gamble." It remains a gamble. Regardless, one fact is inescapable: the more we scrutinize a seller, the more informed we all are -- and the better off we all are. And that is a positive step.
philipma1957
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April 10, 2018, 09:24:43 PM
Last edit: April 11, 2018, 01:26:09 AM by frodocooper
 #1842

everyone can check testing numbers right here.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

 pool side number


Okay I got the T1 from an un named forum member.  He knows I am posting and testing so if he wants to say his name that is up to him.  Thank you from me to him.

my power meter is high 1655


good short term numbers.  if the gear does 16.3 to 17th  but pulls 1655 watts  it is very close to spec.

1655/17000 = 0.0973 watts a gh
1480/16000 = 0.0925 watts a gh

you would be +5% on a hand picked unit   1,2,[3]4,5  two were better 2 were worse

https://i.imgur.com/xMJFIuf.png

the gui gives 15.71 th


now all early but  the gui number means nothing ck.'s pool number is how you are paid

if the higher number at ck.'s pool stays higher then the gui then this miner is not bad at all

https://i.imgur.com/6Urx5lC.png



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove inline image tags.

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chadl2
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April 11, 2018, 01:04:28 AM
 #1843

so nobody on this forum received their T1 except a user with only 1 post?

I got my 10 in my first order: https://twitter.com/perforollc/status/981600186316226560
dimaze
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April 11, 2018, 04:02:32 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:15:19 AM by frodocooper
 #1844

The T1 chips! Samsung + 10nm

https://i.imgur.com/kH2SlkB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/dZGpFvz.jpg

https://mobile.twitter.com/MyRig_com/status/983872076271337472



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove inline image tags.

eissug
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April 11, 2018, 04:58:23 AM
 #1845

I was a little concerned when I heard Samsung was making SHA256 ASICS.  Hanguk mansae!

189 10nm chips per unit...  vs 104 16nm chips in the 841.

I expected more of an efficiency increase, especially from Korea...!  I hope it wasn't Samsung's fault.   Grin
comby
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April 11, 2018, 07:26:03 AM
 #1846

So today is 11th of april, the daterange for T1 Batch 2 was 5-10 april - did ANYONE received a shipping number yet?

Why is it delayed once again and there's no information to anyone?
zerobias
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April 11, 2018, 07:39:45 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:16:44 AM by frodocooper
 #1847

everyone can check testing numbers right here.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

[...]

please be sure to test the updated firmware as well. your miner should offer an update in the backend section.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from philipma1957.
Sandal_Hat
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April 11, 2018, 12:20:45 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:18:00 AM by frodocooper
 #1848

everyone can check testing numbers right here.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje

[...]

Good numbers short term, not really. My S9 pulls 16-20Th for the first few mins. It just does not calculate properly at first. It will also take some time to stabilize the numbers.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje
Pool side number is zero for 1 to 5 mins.
2.96 T for 1 day. Wat happened? U turned it off?

http://ckpool.org/#/user  . I added your address 1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje into that link.
Your last share was 8 hours ago.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from philipma1957.

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
NotFuzzyWarm
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April 11, 2018, 01:02:06 PM
 #1849

I was a little concerned when I heard Samsung was making SHA256 ASICS.  Hanguk mansae!
189 10nm chips per unit...  vs 104 16nm chips in the 841.
I expected more of an efficiency increase, especially from Korea...!  I hope it wasn't Samsung's fault.   Grin
Why?
The Foundry part of Samsung is no different than TSMC, or GloFo. They will make any chip for anyone with the money, in this case its SHA256 ASICs for Bitmain, Halong and Ebang. They used to make chips for BW, remember?

As for the 10nm eff... you need to pay attention to what folks here who are in the semiconductor business have been saying for almost a year - when it comes to mining chips the 10nm and lower nodes are pure and simple 'see what we did' Marketing with little bearing on possible real-world performance increases. The physics of these nodes strongly favors low-power (mobile applications) and as even 16/14nm has proven, pushing a high power application onto them gets very tricksy. Don't forget, Ebang's 10nm miner actually has slight worse spec than their previous miner...

- For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself -    My info useful? Donations welcome!  3NtFuzyWREGoDHWeMczeJzxFZpiLAFJXYr
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Sandal_Hat
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April 11, 2018, 01:02:51 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:20:54 AM by frodocooper
 #1850

...

The only reason to not want to reveal identity is to LIMIT LIABILITY. No asic manufacturer or ANY other company out there hides identity. This has nothing to do with auto industry.
It is basic common sense.

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

Halong's Terms say that all deposits are non-refundable. So, they can RUN AWAY if they want to and buyers have no recourse.
Halong's last post mention the high cost of making a miner and competing in this market as it is.

So, buyers should be careful when buying from this company. They may just dissapear.

If u really want this gear, I suggest diversifying and not putting all your money into this gear. Or split your buys. Buy more ONLY after a batch has been delivered physically to your home.
Chances are that they are not doing well. They may just dissapear suddenly and u have NO RECOURSE because they are invisible.
Their TERMS state that deposits are not refundable. Be safe.
It would be sad to see people being screwed should it occur.



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from Dr.Mann.

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
Flying Hellfish
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April 11, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
 #1851

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

That is specious reasoning at best...  They may very well have sold lots of gear and:
it's just not delivered yet.
it's still "burning in" on their own pool #BFL!
there sales were to mainly enterprise level companies who are running on "non-public" pools

With such limited information it seems impossible to accurately asses their sales volume.

I've been preaching about how bad a deal it is to be an "Investomer" since 2013.  It's not a popular opinion here in DEADWOOD.  The risk/reward ratio for being an investomer is soooooooo absolutely lopsided (and in case it actually needs to be mention it is NOT lopsided in the miners favour...) that I am constantly amazed how many people are so happy to line up to be one.
NODEhaven
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April 11, 2018, 01:40:32 PM
 #1852

I was a little concerned when I heard Samsung was making SHA256 ASICS.  Hanguk mansae!
189 10nm chips per unit...  vs 104 16nm chips in the 841.
I expected more of an efficiency increase, especially from Korea...!  I hope it wasn't Samsung's fault.   Grin
Why?
The Foundry part of Samsung is no different than TSMC, or GloFo. They will make any chip for anyone with the money, in this case its SHA256 ASICs for Bitmain, Halong and Ebang. They used to make chips for BW, remember?

As for the 10nm eff... you need to pay attention to what folks here who are in the semiconductor business have been saying for almost a year - when it comes to mining chips the 10nm and lower nodes are pure and simple 'see what we did' Marketing with little bearing on possible real-world performance increases. The physics of these nodes strongly favors low-power (mobile applications) and as even 16/14nm has proven, pushing a high power application onto them gets very tricksy. Don't forget, Ebang's 10nm miner actually has slight worse spec than their previous miner...

Samsung 10nm not equivalent to Intel 10nm.  Keep that in mind.  Samsung seems to have been using these labels loosely.  Also, Samsung has been aweful proud of making these ASICs.

There is also some question as to whether ASICboost routing actually increases performance.  It would seem that Bitmain would have implemented it if they thought it beneficial. Granted, it is early days with this tech and the software is being tuned.  Looking forward to seeing what the full potential is of these miners  is as everything gets ironed out.  So far so good.
eissug
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April 11, 2018, 01:42:23 PM
 #1853

I was a little concerned when I heard Samsung was making SHA256 ASICS.  Hanguk mansae!
189 10nm chips per unit...  vs 104 16nm chips in the 841.
I expected more of an efficiency increase, especially from Korea...!  I hope it wasn't Samsung's fault.   Grin
Why?
The Foundry part of Samsung is no different than TSMC, or GloFo. They will make any chip for anyone with the money, in this case its SHA256 ASICs for Bitmain, Halong and Ebang. They used to make chips for BW, remember?

My experience was only related to the support and quality that they provide a-Si customers.  Koreans do everything at an extreme level and have a huge competitive spirit.  The USA invented auto-tune, Koreans took it to level 11.  I thought when Samsung got into SHA256 everyone else would be in trouble!  : )

I seriously was worried about my investment in Canaan 841s when I heard the news.  I didn't remember about BW.  It seemed like they were hyping this all of a sudden, so I assumed they felt something special.

Assuming it is true that the Innosilicon T1 uses Samsung chips I am truly confused with my continued support of Canaan.  Wink
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April 11, 2018, 01:48:34 PM
 #1854

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

That is specious reasoning at best...  They may very well have sold lots of gear and:
it's just not delivered yet.
it's still "burning in" on their own pool #BFL!
there sales were to mainly enterprise level companies who are running on "non-public" pools

With such limited information it seems impossible to accurately asses their sales volume.

I've been preaching about how bad a deal it is to be an "Investomer" since 2013.  It's not a popular opinion here in DEADWOOD.  The risk/reward ratio for being an investomer is soooooooo absolutely lopsided (and in case it actually needs to be mention it is NOT lopsided in the miners favour...) that I am constantly amazed how many people are so happy to line up to be one.

I love the term “investomer”.  I think this is one of the peculiar aspects of Bitcoin mining equipment manufacturing.  Everyone sees a prototype and hype surrounding and they are quick to fund millions of dollars towards “production” well in advance essential giving quick payday to anyone who participated..  Yet, time and Time again that risk has played out very badly.  

Why not make true longterm investment into the development of the unit itself or startup and receive benefit for years off single investment?  Instead trust is placed in an unknown team with a prototype.  Why not put your trust in an outstanding team with wonderful reputation that could provide years of steady profits and access to equipment at cost? 95% of this thread and the risk could have been mitigated, but it sure makes for a great story and is a lot of fun Smiley
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April 11, 2018, 01:52:38 PM
 #1855

Samsung 10nm not equivalent to Intel 10nm.  Keep that in mind.  Samsung seems to have been using these labels loosely.  Also, Samsung has been aweful proud of making these ASICs.

Can you explain more about the difference?  The publicity is what got me thinking.  There was a huge bump in interest in bitcoin last winter in Korea, probably over the stability of their currency due to the DPRK...  You can buy bitcoins on in the subway terminals too!  In little plastic boxes!   Cheesy

Are you speculating that the boost feature might only take up more space that could otherwise be used by more cores?  What is the point if it doesn't make anything faster?  As they proudly state on the front page of the web site, the designs are not based on simulations.  Maybe they never tried it without?  Smiley
NODEhaven
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April 11, 2018, 02:01:06 PM
 #1856

Samsung 10nm not equivalent to Intel 10nm.  Keep that in mind.  Samsung seems to have been using these labels loosely.  Also, Samsung has been aweful proud of making these ASICs.

Can you explain more about the difference?  The publicity is what got me thinking.  There was a huge bump in interest in bitcoin last winter in Korea, probably over the stability of their currency due to the DPRK...  You can buy bitcoins on in the subway terminals too!  In little plastic boxes!   Cheesy

Are you speculating that the boost feature might only take up more space that could otherwise be used by more cores?  What is the point if it doesn't make anything faster?  As they proudly state on the front page of the web site, the designs are not based on simulations.  Maybe they never tried it without?  Smiley

Please refer to this thread about SHA256 IC.  It has some discussion regarding ASICboost
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2676595.msg33374953#msg33374953

If you want to google Scotten Jones at IC Knowledge and pull up his reports you will find all the information you need regarding process nodes and normalization.
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April 11, 2018, 02:18:07 PM
 #1857

I dont mean to be a wet blanket but there is no notable increase in hashrate in Slush and Ck pool. Slush and CK pools are the only pools that can take dragonmints.
Hashrate for slush should go through the roof it they sold alot, especially considering how small slush is to the total hashrate.
Furthermore, alot of slush and CK pool hash will be due to cheap S9s flooding market.
Thus, the logical conclusion is that they didnt sell much miners.

That is specious reasoning at best...  They may very well have sold lots of gear and:
it's just not delivered yet.
it's still "burning in" on their own pool #BFL!
there sales were to mainly enterprise level companies who are running on "non-public" pools

With such limited information it seems impossible to accurately asses their sales volume.

I've been preaching about how bad a deal it is to be an "Investomer" since 2013.  It's not a popular opinion here in DEADWOOD.  The risk/reward ratio for being an investomer is soooooooo absolutely lopsided (and in case it actually needs to be mention it is NOT lopsided in the miners favour...) that I am constantly amazed how many people are so happy to line up to be one.

It is good reasoning actually. Think about it.
The batch 1 barely made a dent in slush. And slush is 3% of total hashrate or less?
Slush is 3.246 EH and btc difficulty is now 3.46T. I doubt batch 2 and 3 will do much either. We shall see I guess.

If they sold any decent amount, slush and CK should have huge increases because ONLY these 2 pools can take in dragonmints.
If thats the case, when they are delivered later, there should be a major increase in those 2 pools hashrate. The major pools are known as it is.

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies I believe. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. No one hands over so much btc just like that. It is just stupid. Why would they be able to get into the industrial market like Bitfury when they cant even crack the smaller market lol?

Agree with u on investomer. Nice term Smiley

Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value
zerobias
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April 11, 2018, 02:27:29 PM
 #1858

lol. They didnt sell to any enterprise companies. I know the claims they make. Their telegram back then has like 600 people only then and many were toxic. No company will buy alot of untested units from some new and unknown company. It is just stupid.

if you ever were at least one toe in mining operations whale biz you prob will know that usually one invites whale operations for demos way before the asic is announced in public, secure the contracts and later of course those guys get units first as well

who is this for example https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/3ACjzvyr3PdPCnAcAi2Nfw9RXcm9SVmtR9 mining with AB since mid March?

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April 11, 2018, 03:07:01 PM
Last edit: April 12, 2018, 03:26:44 AM by frodocooper
 #1859

Good numbers short term, not really. My S9 pulls 16-20Th for the first few mins. It just does not calculate properly at first. It will also take some time to stabilize the numbers.

http://ckpool.org/users/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje
Pool side number is zero for 1 to 5 mins.
2.96 T for 1 day. Wat happened? U turned it off?

http://ckpool.org/#/user  . I added your address 1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53Vbtje into that link.
Your last share was 8 hours ago.

to loud to sleep  it is back up

so far tests have been  not so good.

but I am now doing a third psu.

the myrig halong psu  did 1680
the delta 2400 psu   did 1610

the newest is an hp  2450  watt  https://www.ebay.com/itm/100V-240V-2450W-Power-Supply-for-Antminer-S9-T9-S7-L3-Mining-94-Percent-Efficie/122923683959?

just fired it up I also figured a way to keep it very cool.

gui has it at 15.98 th at 11 minute

https://i.imgur.com/dwgeUsZ.png

so far it seems to pull a lot of power   1610 to 1680 watts   and be just short of 16th on the better psus

the myrig  it did  15.5 after 2 hour test. and 1680 watts
the delta it did    15.7 after 2 hour test   1610 watts


the hp test is only 20 minutes  15.86th


you tube link of today's test

  note I will do this for 2 hours then I will do firmware then come back and test for 2 hours with new firm ware.

Your video will be live at: https://youtu.be/oR9fwKYIb-s



Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to remove a nested quote.

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.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
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April 11, 2018, 03:25:56 PM
 #1860

So it seems the efficiency is just barely on par with Bitmains 2 year old s9 tech. After all that bragging about it being the most efficient miner in the world, Halong is looking even more silly now.

Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.
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