DragonMint T1 16TH/S halongmining.com

[kebabman]

The default software will not allow you to even mine on non-AsicBoost pools. You'd have to modify it to do so (at the cost of efficiency and voiding the warranty probably)

Halong clarified that the speed would be no different, it'd be 16T regardless, it's just efficiency that takes a hit if the software was modified to a non-AB pool.

I'm wondering when the other manufacturers will hop on the overt AB bandwagon.

-ck said he was only seeing 1/4 speed after modifying to run on a non-AsicBoost pool, I'm inclined to believe him as he has one in hand.

[-ck]

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

[Shazam!!!]

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

Hopefully some manufacturers can offer some sort of updates to their recent equipment as well. Also, will the DRAGONMINT come
Pre configured with Slush, or your pool? Hopefully, it's yours, and it can help out Non-Corporate for once!

[kebabman]

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?

[-ck]

No manufacturer will make a new miner without asicboost now and lose the 20% efficiency gains. Efficiency is everything in this game and I can't see any maker passing it up now. It'll only be a matter of time.

Hopefully some manufacturers can offer some sort of updates to their recent equipment as well. Also, will the DRAGONMINT come
Pre configured with Slush, or your pool? Hopefully, it's yours, and it can help out Non-Corporate for once!

Asicboost needs asic chip hardware support. As far as I'm aware, the S9 had asicboost built in but bitmain never managed to get their software support working. It's not entirely impossible that it could be made to work but bitmain have been so secretive about everything, and so incompetent in their coding that it may never happen. No other hardware as far as I'm aware has the capability so there is no way to modify it to work.

I've been talking to halong about their pool selection and it's not clear what they're going to do but they'll probably not configure default pools but come with recommendations instead. I don't see ckpool.org suddenly becoming massive from this even though it's fee free, though they did find that pretty exciting when I first told them.

[-ck]

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?

The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

[philipma1957]

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?

The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

I look forward to pointing it at your pool.

[RoadStress]

-ck what work is involved pool side to support AsicBoost?

The code to support it is in my public gits already. It needs to support a couple of new stratum messages and know how to handle an extra parameter on shares being returned.

I look forward to pointing it at your pool.

Same

[Sandal_Hat]

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

[philipma1957]

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

Would be nice to get the boost out in the open and across all the pools

[Megaquake]

I see that these are available for order not pre order, if I purchased one today when would I expect to take delivery since they do not guarantee that they will even be delivered?  


EDIT: I do see May for delivery and that is a good wait but to be expected I guess

[Sandal_Hat]

Hmmm it seems there is nothing stopping canaan,bitmain, innosilicon, gmo, etc from also joining this patent alliance and making a miner that is 20% faster. Since its full hash power is for btc only and it hashes at 1/4 speed without asicboost, perhaps there will be a btc miner and a sha256 miner for bch and other sha256 coins going forward.

Would be nice to get the boost out in the open and across all the pools

I got a feeling other pools will add the asicboost feature eventually. Maybe antpool wont though, since it is a competitor. But now i worry that they will make an S11 on a 10nm chip with this asicboost.  The problem is bitcoin price isnt moving higher to justify mining much now. The market is oversupplied. I wonder if dragonmint will recoup the 30million (accordin to their website) that they spent. If they make 1000/2000 usd profit per miner, they will need to sell 30,000/15,000 miners to break even.

If dragon goes into a price war with bitmain, they will likely lose and difficulty will increase. Miners will buy as the price goes down like in D3 case. For the D3, it was sold at 5k, 2.6k and 1.4k for last batch and i believe no one broke even. And now, the D3 is on sale for 550 usd...about 350 usd with coupon. Innosilicon has a dash miner that is twice as strong and an Litecoin miner that is 20% stronger than bitmains but the D3 and L3+ dominate due to far better pricing power. Well, lets hope dragon dont go into a price war and they recoup their investment on their other miners. Just my speculation.

[deerhunter]

I'm guessing Bitmain will come out with more than one new miner around March/April. There selling off everything stocked in there  warehouses to finance new R/D. That's what I would do in there place. They already know about the asicboost.

[Searing]

I'm guessing Bitmain will come out with more than one new miner around March/April. There selling off everything stocked in there  warehouses to finance new R/D. That's what I would do in there place. They already know about the asicboost.

In reply to dragonmint...my guess is that bitmain will just add asic boost to their NEW miners as a perk...either NEW production after march/april or they will just wait with their

next generatioin..I mean as a monopoly...why p*ss in their own pool and mess up their asic boost data hall mining of such...

On a related question, IF asic boost is open source...does that mean bitcoin core with seg witness will allow such...or not?

[deerhunter]

My understanding is if it's the overt form yes if covert no.

I think the chip is formatted with this and can't be changed. You may see a lot of used S9s on the market soon.

[RoadStress]

I'm guessing Bitmain will come out with more than one new miner around March/April. There selling off everything stocked in there  warehouses to finance new R/D. That's what I would do in there place. They already know about the asicboost.

In reply to dragonmint...my guess is that bitmain will just add asic boost to their NEW miners as a perk...either NEW production after march/april or they will just wait with their

next generatioin..I mean as a monopoly...why p*ss in their own pool and mess up their asic boost data hall mining of such...

On a related question, IF asic boost is open source...does that mean bitcoin core with seg witness will allow such...or not?

They would need to join the defensive patent thing which means that they need to open source their own patents too and they will not do that.

[wavelengthsf]

On a related question, IF asic boost is open source...does that mean bitcoin core with seg witness will allow such...or not?

ASICBOOST impacts the way the stratum mining protocol works more than the core software. Right now, core doesn't support stratum out of the box. You'd need another piece of software, like ckpool, or another stratum proxy (slushes, BFG, etc.) to translate the API calls from core into the work format that stratum uses.

You wouldn't need to change core, in other words, because that layer stays the same. The middle tier layer that's getting work and coordinating miners in a pool is what needs to be updated.

[Dr.Mann]

I wonder if dragonmint will recoup the 30million (accordin to their website) that they spent. If they make 1000/2000 usd profit per miner, they will need to sell 30,000/15,000 miners to break even.

It is entirely unclear to me if Halong Mining itself has actually invested $30 million. Halong Mining's website states: "Around $30 million dollars have already been spent on research, development and prototyping miners, writing software and producing small batches of silicon wafers." (Emphasis added.)

Notice the inherently ambiguous wording here. Halong Mining wrote this statement in the passive voice. Maybe Halong Mining spent that money, maybe it didn't, but Halong Mining does not state that Halong Mining spent $30 million. Halong could be referring to general industry investment in miner R&D and prototyping as it relates to AsicBoost, inclusive of Halong's investment plus the investment of others who are supporting AsicBoost. My point is Halong does not clearly state what it has spent. Halong Mining has operated so ambiguously and without a reasonable level of transparency that I do not believe we can assume Halong Mining has actually made this investment.

Regardless, we do have reason to believe that Halong Mining's sales so far have been massive, and that Halong is deep in the black on the DragonMint project -- with sales between $50 and $100 million USD (as of early February 2018). Consider this analysis from Unicornflex:

Our most recent estimate is that Halong has sold more than $50 million USD worth of DragonMint miners, based on Halong’s minimum order requirement of 5 units per order and Halong’s usage of sequential order numbers in its online order system, which together reveal an approximation as to how many units have been sold. Any large farms that invested in upgrading their equipment with DragonMints could easily have [pushed] total ordered units to more than $100 million in sales.

Unicornflex made its analysis by cross referencing its multiple order numbers with those of other buyers of the DragonMint, including my own order number.

[Searing]

My understanding is if it's the overt form yes if covert no.

I think the chip is formatted with this and can't be changed. You may see a lot of used S9s on the market soon.

that would keep bitmain happy..I suspect their data hall machines can do now asicboost openly

I'm guessing Bitmain will come out with more than one new miner around March/April. There selling off everything stocked in there  warehouses to finance new R/D. That's what I would do in there place. They already know about the asicboost.

In reply to dragonmint...my guess is that bitmain will just add asic boost to their NEW miners as a perk...either NEW production after march/april or they will just wait with their

next generatioin..I mean as a monopoly...why p*ss in their own pool and mess up their asic boost data hall mining of such...

On a related question, IF asic boost is open source...does that mean bitcoin core with seg witness will allow such...or not?

They would need to join the defensive patent thing which means that they need to open source their own patents too and they will not do that.

Well, that answers that..although I was told that they got permission to use asic boost (bitmain) by spondoolies who helped with this in some manner...(rumor)

and/or they are just doing it anyway with their china data halls....thus, I"m sure bitmain can make NEW equipment that can do ASIC boost on an open patent

if they design a chip to do such.....I bet they can open source and keep the open source on their process to do so ...and keep the rest of their stuff closed firmware

(again guessing)

brad

On a related question, IF asic boost is open source...does that mean bitcoin core with seg witness will allow such...or not?

ASICBOOST impacts the way the stratum mining protocol works more than the core software. Right now, core doesn't support stratum out of the box. You'd need another piece of software, like ckpool, or another stratum proxy (slushes, BFG, etc.) to translate the API calls from core into the work format that stratum uses.

You wouldn't need to change core, in other words, because that layer stays the same. The middle tier layer that's getting work and coordinating miners in a pool is what needs to be updated.

Ok, that catches me up on all this...and if you are correct on above ...AT LEAST it would likely mean that FUTURE Bitmain sha-256 would have this..and hell Bitmain could even
use the patent argurment to NOT do anything about past units..would be a win/win....

Again, I think IF the dragonmint folk can use this ...I see no reason on NEW equipment other manufacters would not be able to...but it is NOT in any manufactuer's interest to

do a fix of PAST units they have made....for asic boost..IF they are running data halls.....the will balk at that (again, IMHO)

[philipma1957]

Short update here:-

1. DragonMint's have version-rolling AsicBoost support (reference).
2. Shipping will begin around March 15 - 22, but there's a lot to ship so please be patient.
3. Shipped version number will be T1, not 16T due to some mixup with Russian import documents that cannot be changed in time.
4. This picture is legit and the final version that will ship https://twitter.com/MyRig_com/status/971205544533835776
5. Phillip will get a demo machine once the shipping starts. But the reason for the secrecy was AsicBoost capability could be revealed before the patent holder opened the patent. This is unfortunate, we would have preferred more openness, but it is what it is, patents suck, but in this case, the patent can help protect the Bitcoin ecosystem. Now we're so close to shipping, we'll just give a demo machine to phillip once we ship.

Some references:-

https://blockchaindpl.org/
https://www.emergingtechlaw.org/analysis/creating-the-blockchain-defensive-patent-license420182
https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/opening-asicboost-for-defensive-use/
https://blog.bitmex.com/defensive-patent-licence/
https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-a-bitcoin-block/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/there-bitcoin-patent-war-going-initiative-could-end-it/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/slush-pool-now-compatible-asicboost-miners/
http://stratumprotocol.org/

The following pools are already version-rolling compatible: slushpool.com, ckpool.org, bitcoin-india.org
The following software is patched or has pull requests open or about to being worked on: btcpool, ckpool, cgminer

More News coming once all necessary steps are taken!  Stay tuned and Happy Hashing!

Getting more and more request to list lower value than it was paid for, our answer to this is "NO" Commercial Invoice will have the price each customer actually paid for and no we CAN NOT list lower value to help you lower your import duty or fees.  I'm sorry for being so BLUNT on this but this is what it is.


https://twitter.com/HalongMining/status/971295384491515904

DragonMint Bitcoin miners have AsicBoost inside!

Understand this is overt asicboost protected by the open defensive patent license meaning anyone can use it, and is not harmful to the network unlike covert. Ckpool and slush have support for this as it requires explicit poolside support, new stratum extensions, and cgminer needs to be modified to work with it.

https://blockchaindpl.org/
https://www.emergingtechlaw.org/analysis/creating-the-blockchain-defensive-patent-license420182
https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/opening-asicboost-for-defensive-use/
https://blog.bitmex.com/defensive-patent-licence/
https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-a-bitcoin-block/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/there-bitcoin-patent-war-going-initiative-could-end-it/
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/slush-pool-now-compatible-asicboost-miners/
http://stratumprotocol.org/

https://halongmining.com/shop/dragonmint-16t-miner/
https://halongmining.com/shop/dragonmint-b29-blake256-miner/
*More Coming!

P.S:  Thank you guys for a time to time entertaining speculations for the last few months!  Very encouraging to the least, leading all negativities to be honest!  

" Random Acts of Kindness "
If you feel shamed of all bashing or negativities here, May be when you stop by at your favorite coffee shop, pay for the guy behind you, or may be buy a care bag for a local homeless person with socks, wet tissues, some hygiene materials and some candies, or donate a backpack full of pencils to local schools, something happy and kind and pay it forward!

Sent pm's to myrig and halongmining