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Author Topic: [DEAD] DeepBit.net PPS+Prop,instant payouts, we pay for INVALID BLOCKS too  (Read 1453139 times)
organofcorti
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August 14, 2012, 02:37:47 AM
 #5221

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 


Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html

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August 14, 2012, 04:55:36 AM
 #5222

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 


Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html

So a typical proportional payout loses 3% in pool fees (acceptable, and quite standard), and another potential 3% to hoppers ("strategic miners" as the article calls them), resulting in the average dedicated miner only being paid for ~94% of their hashing power. Ouch.

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organofcorti
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August 14, 2012, 05:12:08 AM
 #5223

That was then. Loss to pool hoppers is proportional to the hashrate increase due to pool hoppers. I don't have time to check right now, but last time I did since I posted that, the hashrate increase due to pool hoppers was a lot less than it was.

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August 14, 2012, 12:50:07 PM
 #5224

F4-6D-04-2C-5E-02
This is a MAC address, it's not related to the filtration process.
When did your connection problems started ?

yes it is my Mac ID (F4-6D-04-2C-5E-02) and all my laptops and pcs are connected on the same router/ Ip there fore if my miner cant mine nor i can open the site on my rig then i guess its mac ID banned or something has to be.


ohhh wait i found the problem for why it didn't connect,

NOTE: If you running miners on your rigs don't install "Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware"  it blocks the site after few days, who knows why! BUT that fixed my problem Smiley Unchecked site blocking

sorry for blaming it on your guyz ;P



That's funny I've used "Malwarebytes" for years and don't have that problem
Maybe you should learn how to use Malwarebytes
All you need to do is put your miner in the "ignore list"


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August 14, 2012, 10:50:47 PM
 #5225

F4-6D-04-2C-5E-02
This is a MAC address, it's not related to the filtration process.
When did your connection problems started ?

yes it is my Mac ID (F4-6D-04-2C-5E-02) and all my laptops and pcs are connected on the same router/ Ip there fore if my miner cant mine nor i can open the site on my rig then i guess its mac ID banned or something has to be.


ohhh wait i found the problem for why it didn't connect,

NOTE: If you running miners on your rigs don't install "Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware"  it blocks the site after few days, who knows why! BUT that fixed my problem Smiley Unchecked site blocking

sorry for blaming it on your guyz ;P



That's funny I've used "Malwarebytes" for years and don't have that problem
Maybe you should learn how to use Malwarebytes
All you need to do is put your miner in the "ignore list"





Yes Sir!!! i never had a problem with MalwareB blocking my miners or the site for about two years, out of no where it started blocking who knows why!!!
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August 15, 2012, 02:01:51 AM
 #5226

  Is it just me or did Deepbit have a huge wave of Invalid blocks just now?  Was out for a business event and came home to see a row of invalids show up.  We should still be getting credit though if I understand it so that's good.  It looks like it's fine now, though.

  Not knocking Deepbit.  I know others may prefer pools with fewer fees but Deepbit's been very stable for me long-term and is a great pool for my remote machines.  


Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
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August 15, 2012, 02:12:32 AM
 #5227

Someone is playing with the codez.... Those are not invalid based on what i see.
organofcorti
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August 15, 2012, 02:20:24 AM
 #5228

 Is it just me or did Deepbit have a huge wave of Invalid blocks just now?  Was out for a business event and came home to see a row of invalids show up.  We should still be getting credit though if I understand it so that's good.  It looks like it's fine now, though.

If you click on the block hash link you'll see if they're actually valid or not. I checked the first one, and it is valid.

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[Tycho]
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August 15, 2012, 02:43:45 AM
 #5229

It was a display bug, those blocks are actually valid. Sorry for that :)
(Working on that difficulty history column upgrade)

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August 15, 2012, 02:48:56 AM
 #5230

Oh, no problem!  Again, Deepbit has awesome rules so I wasn't really worried (and figured if there was a glitch that it would've been fixed soonish).  If that was a regular pool though, well, that's different!

Glad to hear it was just a bug.  Carry on mining or... pooling.

Oh Loaded, who art up in Mt. Gox, hallowed be thy name!  Thy dollars rain, thy will be done, on BTCUSD.  Give us this day our daily 10% 30%, and forgive the bears, as we have bought their bitcoins.  And lead us into quadruple digits
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August 15, 2012, 02:57:13 AM
 #5231

Carry on mining or... pooling.
Both :)

Welcome to my bitcoin mining pool: https://deepbit.net - Both payment schemes (including PPS), instant payout, no invalid blocks !
ICBIT Trading platform : USD/BTC futures trading, Bitcoin difficulty futures (NEW!). Third year in bitcoin business.
fcmatt
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August 16, 2012, 12:41:02 AM
 #5232

the recent talk about hopping again got me thinking about deepbit's hashing rate (pool rate).
i know my personal speed of my miners depends a bit on luck so it can be anywhere from, for example,
1 to 1.2 gh/s. That is quite a range percentage wise.

so if people are watching deepbit's pool speed go from 3250 gh/s to 3500 gh/s that might not be hopping
but the normal fluctuation of luck of getting valid shares to submit for a large group of steady normal miners.

how right or wrong am i? is there 100 gh/s still hopping you? and as an owner of a pool i am unclear why it would
even matter to the owner when it is such a tiny percentage of the pool's speed. Now if it was 1000 gh/s that would
be different and might require some tweaking to stop it from happening as users might get upset.

tks
organofcorti
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August 16, 2012, 01:03:49 AM
 #5233

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 


Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html


Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

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fcmatt
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August 16, 2012, 01:28:44 AM
 #5234

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 


Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html


Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

i read it and recall it was pretty obvious at the time. you mention 450 gh/s hopping around. that no longer seems to be the case of
that high of a value?

that is why i wonder how much of the pool speed i see is just due to miners having good luck for 10 minutes, submit more shares, and
all of a sudden pool speed changes by 50 gh/s... or maybe more. i figure tycho would know off hand.

good paper. you made it very clear for the time frame you discussed.
organofcorti
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August 16, 2012, 02:00:57 AM
 #5235

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 


Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html


Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

i read it and recall it was pretty obvious at the time. you mention 450 gh/s hopping around. that no longer seems to be the case of
that high of a value?

What I meant was, can you try plotting round length / Difficulty against average hashrate per round yourself? Even without an exact analysis, it will give you a reasonable indicator of what the increase due to pool hopping is. Post that here and I can tell you how much that is likely to cost fulltime miners.

that is why i wonder how much of the pool speed i see is just due to miners having good luck for 10 minutes, submit more shares, and
all of a sudden pool speed changes by 50 gh/s... or maybe more. i figure tycho would know off hand.
The data is all public - if you plot round length / Difficulty against average hashrate per round, you'll be able to see for yourself. If you're not sure what I mean, PM me and I'll explain what you need to do with the public data to get results.

It's not the sort of analysis I would expect [Tycho] to do - I'll bet his time is spent making this pool run smoothly. The only time Deepbit has had downtime in the recent past is when there have been DDoS'. Not many pools have managed that.

Quote

good paper. you made it very clear for the time frame you discussed.

Well, thank you - always nice to get feedback. It's not a paper though, just a blog post.

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.


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August 16, 2012, 03:10:26 AM
 #5236

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.

Really?

The way some people are talking pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners too stupid to stop it.  Why is it that the only way to stop hopping is for us non hopper miners to stop using Deepbit?

Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, can you really call it hopping anymore?

Just some random questions.  I'm sure the only answer I'll get is that I'm a moron.  Let the flames begin Smiley
Sam

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organofcorti
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August 16, 2012, 03:38:58 AM
 #5237

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.

Really?

The way some people are talking pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners too stupid to stop it.  Why is it that the only way to stop hopping is for us non hopper miners to stop using Deepbit?

Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, can you really call it hopping anymore?

Just some random questions.  I'm sure the only answer I'll get is that I'm a moron.  Let the flames begin Smiley
Sam

No, I don't think you're a moron. These are difficult questions with difficult answers, unless you already understand them in which case you wouldn't be asking the questions, I guess.

1.
Really?
Yes, but as I've mentioned previously I haven't checked for a while.

2.
pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners
Hyperbole aside, pool hopping does reduce the amount full time earners earn. In the post I linked to I used the results of a simulation, but in NPW 4.2 I start to derive a method for calculating this amount for a standard proportional or an exponentially scored proportional (Slush, BTCMine) pool. The loss to pool hoppers for a standard proportional pool is determined by the amount of hashrate increase the pool hoppers provide, compared to fulltime miners. Deepbit has a huge hashrate, so a slight increase from pool hoppers means a slight loss to pool hoppers. If you don't mind losing a few percentage points to pool hoppers, then I guess you'll be ok with it. Otherwise you might as well go PPS.

3.
Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, ....
No, it's not. As well as Deepbit, the following pools are all potentially hoppable, and most still are:

- Bitlc
- Bitcoinpool
- Slush's pool
- BTCMine

There may be more.

4.
.... can you really call it hopping anymore

Strategic mining is what it is. It only takes one pool that is hoppable to be a hoppable pool.



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August 16, 2012, 03:49:20 AM
 #5238

how does one calculate the benefit of hoppers that must exist in some fashion.
here they come after a long block, hoping for short ones. 300 gh/s comes hopping in.
well there is a short round. then another. then another. how do we know if that
additional power did not assist in finding the blocks faster?

i guess what I am thinking about is luck or perhaps less variance in finding blocks for that short time
frame.. but it must possibly lead to some benefits that never seem to get discussed?
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August 16, 2012, 04:10:22 AM
 #5239

I don't want to derail this thread, so go to http://howtohop.blogspot.com for all the information you can manage. It was a work in progress, so some of it is harder to follow than other parts, but it leads on to the NPW posts, and should give you sufficient information to answer the question yourself.

Or you can PM me.

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August 16, 2012, 09:20:10 AM
 #5240

i noticed recently that pool's hashrate is constant although the total has been increased a lot.
I kindly request if possible to lower the fees to 2% or 1% . I really don't know the expenses of the site but either way
new miners will eventually come Wink
thanks
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