[DEAD] DeepBit.net PPS+Prop,instant payouts, we pay for INVALID BLOCKS too

[[Tycho]]

Carry on mining or... pooling.

Both :)

[fcmatt]

the recent talk about hopping again got me thinking about deepbit's hashing rate (pool rate).
i know my personal speed of my miners depends a bit on luck so it can be anywhere from, for example,
1 to 1.2 gh/s. That is quite a range percentage wise.

so if people are watching deepbit's pool speed go from 3250 gh/s to 3500 gh/s that might not be hopping
but the normal fluctuation of luck of getting valid shares to submit for a large group of steady normal miners.

how right or wrong am i? is there 100 gh/s still hopping you? and as an owner of a pool i am unclear why it would
even matter to the owner when it is such a tiny percentage of the pool's speed. Now if it was 1000 gh/s that would
be different and might require some tweaking to stop it from happening as users might get upset.

tks

[organofcorti]

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 

Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html

Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

[fcmatt]

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 

Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html

Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

i read it and recall it was pretty obvious at the time. you mention 450 gh/s hopping around. that no longer seems to be the case of
that high of a value?

that is why i wonder how much of the pool speed i see is just due to miners having good luck for 10 minutes, submit more shares, and
all of a sudden pool speed changes by 50 gh/s... or maybe more. i figure tycho would know off hand.

good paper. you made it very clear for the time frame you discussed.

[organofcorti]

Again, for those that missed it earlier:

Has anyone calculated/estimated this "hopper tax" on Deepbit? 

Yes, although it was a few months ago now: http://organofcorti.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/22-deepbit-and-pool-hopping.html

Loss to pool hoppers depends on hashrate increase. This can be accurately determined but it's time consuming and I haven't done it for DeepBit lately.

If you go to my blog and follow what I've done, you can determine the average hashrate increase for yourself. I you do this let me know and I'll tell you what the loss to pool hoppers is.

i read it and recall it was pretty obvious at the time. you mention 450 gh/s hopping around. that no longer seems to be the case of
that high of a value?

What I meant was, can you try plotting round length / Difficulty against average hashrate per round yourself? Even without an exact analysis, it will give you a reasonable indicator of what the increase due to pool hopping is. Post that here and I can tell you how much that is likely to cost fulltime miners.

that is why i wonder how much of the pool speed i see is just due to miners having good luck for 10 minutes, submit more shares, and
all of a sudden pool speed changes by 50 gh/s... or maybe more. i figure tycho would know off hand.

The data is all public - if you plot round length / Difficulty against average hashrate per round, you'll be able to see for yourself. If you're not sure what I mean, PM me and I'll explain what you need to do with the public data to get results.

It's not the sort of analysis I would expect [Tycho] to do - I'll bet his time is spent making this pool run smoothly. The only time Deepbit has had downtime in the recent past is when there have been DDoS'. Not many pools have managed that.

good paper. you made it very clear for the time frame you discussed.

Well, thank you - always nice to get feedback. It's not a paper though, just a blog post.

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.

[os2sam]

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.

Really?

The way some people are talking pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners too stupid to stop it.  Why is it that the only way to stop hopping is for us non hopper miners to stop using Deepbit?

Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, can you really call it hopping anymore?

Just some random questions.  I'm sure the only answer I'll get is that I'm a moron.  Let the flames begin
Sam

[organofcorti]

Last I checked there was very little hopping activity going on, but it would be nice for someone to have a look at current data.

Really?

The way some people are talking pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners too stupid to stop it.  Why is it that the only way to stop hopping is for us non hopper miners to stop using Deepbit?

Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, can you really call it hopping anymore?

Just some random questions.  I'm sure the only answer I'll get is that I'm a moron.  Let the flames begin
Sam

No, I don't think you're a moron. These are difficult questions with difficult answers, unless you already understand them in which case you wouldn't be asking the questions, I guess.

1.

Really?

Yes, but as I've mentioned previously I haven't checked for a while.

2.

pool hopping is a rampant evil running amok threatening to destroy the profitability of us miners

Hyperbole aside, pool hopping does reduce the amount full time earners earn. In the post I linked to I used the results of a simulation, but in NPW 4.2 I start to derive a method for calculating this amount for a standard proportional or an exponentially scored proportional (Slush, BTCMine) pool. The loss to pool hoppers for a standard proportional pool is determined by the amount of hashrate increase the pool hoppers provide, compared to fulltime miners. Deepbit has a huge hashrate, so a slight increase from pool hoppers means a slight loss to pool hoppers. If you don't mind losing a few percentage points to pool hoppers, then I guess you'll be ok with it. Otherwise you might as well go PPS.

3.

Of course Deepbit being the only proportional pool and therefore the only hoppable pool, ....

No, it's not. As well as Deepbit, the following pools are all potentially hoppable, and most still are:

- Bitlc
- Bitcoinpool
- Slush's pool
- BTCMine

There may be more.

4.

.... can you really call it hopping anymore

Strategic mining is what it is. It only takes one pool that is hoppable to be a hoppable pool.

[fcmatt]

how does one calculate the benefit of hoppers that must exist in some fashion.
here they come after a long block, hoping for short ones. 300 gh/s comes hopping in.
well there is a short round. then another. then another. how do we know if that
additional power did not assist in finding the blocks faster?

i guess what I am thinking about is luck or perhaps less variance in finding blocks for that short time
frame.. but it must possibly lead to some benefits that never seem to get discussed?

[organofcorti]

I don't want to derail this thread, so go to http://howtohop.blogspot.com for all the information you can manage. It was a work in progress, so some of it is harder to follow than other parts, but it leads on to the NPW posts, and should give you sufficient information to answer the question yourself.

Or you can PM me.

[luffy]

i noticed recently that pool's hashrate is constant although the total has been increased a lot.
I kindly request if possible to lower the fees to 2% or 1% . I really don't know the expenses of the site but either way
new miners will eventually come
thanks

[organofcorti]

i noticed recently that pool's hashrate is constant although the total has been increased a lot.

Which total has been increased a lot?

[b0nfire]

Anyone else having connection problems currently?

[b0nfire]

Spoke too soon, seems to be back 

[fcmatt]

Anyone else having connection problems currently?

all miners chugging along but yes.. i see my total speed half of what it normally is.
so something is goofy.

[aTg]

Yes, we have problems, I can not reach even 50% of my power. The solution is easy private DNSs.

[Testit]

Clearly some problems whit comunications 

[b0nfire]

I'm getting a number of things.. Either:

- Too long to repond
- Certificate error?

And the miners are:

16/08/2012 22:32:44, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:33:17, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:33:37, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:08, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:18, 71660596, accepted
16/08/2012 22:34:38, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:50, 11f4c341, accepted
16/08/2012 22:35:01, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:36:06, 30894b24, accepted
16/08/2012 22:36:10, 57562c65, accepted
16/08/2012 22:36:11, f74e573d, accepted

I'm sure it's a no-sleep job running a pool ;(   

[jjiimm_64]

I'm getting a number of things.. Either:

- Too long to repond
- Certificate error?

And the miners are:

16/08/2012 22:32:44, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:33:17, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:33:37, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:08, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:18, 71660596, accepted
16/08/2012 22:34:38, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:34:50, 11f4c341, accepted
16/08/2012 22:35:01, warning: job finished, miner is idle
16/08/2012 22:36:06, 30894b24, accepted
16/08/2012 22:36:10, 57562c65, accepted
16/08/2012 22:36:11, f74e573d, accepted

I'm sure it's a no-sleep job running a pool ;(   

at least you guys can get to the pool... i have 22 rigs running at home and comcast is down totally in my area

[fcmatt]

i am going to guess another ddos. and I am at the point i think it is being done by other pool
owner(s).

what is the fricking point of dos'ing a pool?

1. botnet owner and get ticked for being kicked off
2. hate deepbit for some odd/unknown reason that only owner would prob know about
3. owner(s) operating other pool(s) and getting hundreds of gh/s to choose somewhere else might come to you

what is left? big solo miner wanting difficulty to be lower thus dos pools to slow things down?

anyway...

[[Tycho]]

Yes, there was some connection problems, I'm checking the issue now.