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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803953 times)
ssmc2
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August 23, 2014, 01:00:30 PM
 #11041

Debt is the one and only real money. Everything else is a (more or less liquid) commodity. (Gold, Gold 2.0, Copper, Grain, Houses etc.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

I'm sure the leaders of the good ole US of A wish they could declare a jubilee for themselves  Cheesy
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cypherdoc
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August 23, 2014, 03:45:42 PM
 #11042

oh noes, turning down again:

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August 23, 2014, 04:10:57 PM
 #11043

NSA and GCHQ agents 'leak Tor bugs', alleges developer

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28886462

this is great.  whether true or not, this info will serve as a great psyop.  corruption and abuse likes to hide in the shadows. not only that, but it leads to extreme paranoia.  as JR said somewhere above, eventually the spying that drains billions of free dollars from taxpayers and Fed printing will turn towards internal surveillance.  and then the whole place goes dark and NSA workers will be walking around with headlamps:

http://www.govtech.com/federal/New-NSA-Data-Center-Too-Big-Not-to-Explode.html
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August 23, 2014, 04:22:52 PM
 #11044

oh noes, turning down again:



Short LTC/BTC is probably one of the best trading strategy so far this year.

And I expect the strategy to work till year end.
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August 23, 2014, 04:44:41 PM
 #11045

Debt is the one and only real money. Everything else is a (more or less liquid) commodity. (Gold, Gold 2.0, Copper, Grain, Houses etc.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

molecular, is this the same book you recommended a coupla months ago?

this explains why financial crises only occur when debt defaults start to domino, like we had in 2008 with the subprime crisis spreading throughout the system and the elites doing whatever it took, and still takes, to try and mitigate around the edges.  those edges being, not surprisingly, the bailouts to the financial industry elites primarily and for the most part not to homeowners.  what always sticks in my mind is the move from mark to market to mark to model which still is in effect for the most part.  for the elites it's perfectly fine to mark to market "on the way up" but never on the way down.  when the going gets tough, just change the rules.

we keep coming close to a catalyst for another domino effect with the likes of Greece, Spain, and Argentina but we haven't quite gotten there.  the next crisis will come from sovereign defaults as all the risk and toxic debt has been dumped onto gvts and their CB's.  yes, they will print to save themselves, no doubt, which is why Bitcoin will ultimately succeed.  or as stated above, we'll do a debt jubilee.  wheeeee!!!!

no wonder why we hear the criticism that Bitcoin "goes too far" as an often vague complaint from skeptics.  the mathematical enforcement of debt obligations cannot be allowed to be enforced, let alone explored, for everyone.  most of us just "aren't essential enough".

edit:  this is why the UST market is the key.  when interest rates start going up, massive change will be afoot.
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August 23, 2014, 04:52:28 PM
 #11046

...
we keep coming close to a catalyst for another domino effect with the likes of Greece, Spain, and Argentina but we haven't quite gotten there.  the next crisis will come from sovereign defaults as all the risk and toxic debt has been dumped onto gvts and their CB's.  yes, they will print to save themselves, no doubt, which is why Bitcoin will ultimately succeed.  or as stated above, we'll do a debt jubilee.  wheeeee!!!!
...


I still come back to Japan. While I never (and still don't) fully understood Kyle Bass's argument that JGB rates *must* rise (can't BoJ just keep buying *all* the bonds?), it's clear some massive dislocation has to happen. I think it'll be a 5x devaluation of the Yen. That's incredible in currency markets, especially a top-5 economy like Japan. What will the fallout be from that? It's probably quite mathematically-literally chaotic.

Note: Bass seems to have weakened on his JGB-rates-are-the-canary thesis, instead moving more toward the above; ie, the Yen will massively devalue instead/first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBPZ58dzjfE&feature=youtu.be


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
cypherdoc
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August 23, 2014, 04:59:36 PM
 #11047

Debt is the one and only real money. Everything else is a (more or less liquid) commodity. (Gold, Gold 2.0, Copper, Grain, Houses etc.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

I'm sure the leaders of the good ole US of A wish they could declare a jubilee for themselves  Cheesy

we've done it twice before, 1933 and 1971, and we'll most likely do it again.

under threat of gun point, of course.
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August 23, 2014, 05:06:50 PM
 #11048

http://www.ibtimes.com/microsoft-admits-keeping-92-billion-offshore-avoid-paying-29-billion-us-taxes-1665938

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Microsoft Corp. is currently sitting on almost $29.6 billion it would owe in U.S. taxes if it repatriated the $92.9 billion of earnings it is keeping offshore, according to disclosures in the company’s most recent annual filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The amount of money that Microsoft is keeping offshore represents a significant spike from prior years, and the levies the company would owe amount to almost the entire two-year operating budget of the company’s home state of Washington.

The company says it has "not provided deferred U.S. income taxes" because it says the earnings were generated from its "non-U.S. subsidiaries” and then "reinvested outside the U.S.” Tax experts, however, say that details of the filing suggest the company is using tax shelters to dodge the taxes it owes as a company domiciled in the United States.

Wait until Microsoft and its investors discover Bitcoin.

The US investors of Microsoft would love to be investors in the non-U.S subsidiaries, but there's no way for them to bring their dividends home without moving them through the banking system, and there's no way for them to secretly own shares of a foreign corporation because all those foreign corporations need bank accounts and therefore need to comply with US laws in order to keep them.

A Bitcoin-native company requires no bank account. It doesn't even really require a physical nexus at all.

All it takes is one legal jurisdiction, somewhere in the world, that's friendly toward Bitcoin-native corporations and then then giant sucking sound you'll hear will be all the foreign subsidiaries moving there.
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August 23, 2014, 05:08:18 PM
 #11049

But first we better get to work on better privacy techniques.

Bitcoin isn't any good to anyone in its current state.
cypherdoc
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August 23, 2014, 05:12:02 PM
 #11050

A Bitcoin-native company requires no bank account. It doesn't even really require a physical nexus at all.

All it takes is one legal jurisdiction, somewhere in the world, that's friendly toward Bitcoin-native corporations and then then giant sucking sound you'll hear will be all the foreign subsidiaries moving there.

i wish this were really true. 

it seems many/most need banking accts yet are being obstructed by the banks.  i wonder how Blockchain.info does it? 

you're right though; once a Bitcoin safe haven opens up, you should hear that sucking sound.  but at what cost to that jurisdiction's banks?
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August 23, 2014, 05:20:19 PM
 #11051

But first we better get to work on better privacy techniques.

Bitcoin isn't any good to anyone in its current state.

you keep saying this about Bitcoin's anonymity properties.  if true, why haven't you identified the mtgox crooks yet and sold off the info?  you'd make alot doing so...

edit:  not to mention identities of the numerous other thefts in Bitcoin-land.
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August 23, 2014, 05:24:52 PM
 #11052

i wish this were really true. 

it seems many/most need banking accts yet are being obstructed by the banks.  i wonder how Blockchain.info does it?
All it would require, I think, is a place where you can pay to register your corp via a method that does not involve a bank transfer.

What I would do if I was Microsoft would be to get a corporation registered in a suitable country. That corporation would be a purely-online entity. Its only expense is maybe the cost of a VPS to run its website, and those are easy to pay for with bitcoin now.

This corporation would issues shares of its equity as colored bitcoins, which could be distributed via any method and have the useful property of being transferable outside the control of the issuer.

Then I'd make sure this corporation "invents" some intellectual property which I need, and then negotiate a licensing agreement with it. The foreign corporation would specify license fees to be paid in bitcoin, and the rates would be very generous toward the IP holder.

Since that foreign corporation has effectively zero expenses, all of its profits would be distributed to shareholders (whomever holds the colored bitcoins).

I'd repeat this process several times, finding multiple creative ways to end up owing some foreign supplier bitcoins in exchange for good and services, until my US corporation was barely profitable at all.
justusranvier
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August 23, 2014, 05:27:39 PM
 #11053

But first we better get to work on better privacy techniques.

Bitcoin isn't any good to anyone in its current state.

you keep saying this about Bitcoin's anonymity properties.  if true, why haven't you identified the mtgox crooks yet and sold off the info?  you'd make alot doing so...

edit:  not to mention identities of the numerous other thefts in Bitcoin-land.
For one thing, we don't know that any bitcoin were actually stolen from Mt Gox. They might have bene running a ponzi/fractional reserve.

The other thing is that even if the surveillance infrastructure isn't very effective today the one thing we know it's only going to get better over time.

Information being leaked today is a problem, even if no adversaries are going to be able to exploit it until tomorrow, because the blockchain will still be here tomorrow.
thefunkybits
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August 23, 2014, 05:27:50 PM
 #11054

But first we better get to work on better privacy techniques.

Bitcoin isn't any good to anyone in its current state.

you keep saying this about Bitcoin's anonymity properties.  if true, why haven't you identified the mtgox crooks yet and sold off the info?  you'd make alot doing so...

This is so true imo...

Everyone is so concerned about privacy and anonymity these days but even our smartest minds can't catch the bad actors. From mtgox to TradeFortress to SR, the good guys and the bad guys all work tirelessly to no avail. Even with a transparent blockchain, the control we have over privacy is still very much in our own hands.

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August 23, 2014, 05:30:55 PM
 #11055

Everyone is so concerned about privacy and anonymity these days but even our smartest minds can't catch the bad actors. From mtgox to TradeFortress to SR, the good guys and the bad guys all work tirelessly to no avail. Even with a transparent blockchain, the control we have over privacy is still very much in our own hands.
Did you miss that Coinbase is doing blockchain analysis to identify which of their customers are using gambling sites?

This will become more common over time, as Bitcoin becomes more widely used.
cypherdoc
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August 23, 2014, 05:32:50 PM
 #11056

But first we better get to work on better privacy techniques.

Bitcoin isn't any good to anyone in its current state.

you keep saying this about Bitcoin's anonymity properties.  if true, why haven't you identified the mtgox crooks yet and sold off the info?  you'd make alot doing so...

edit:  not to mention identities of the numerous other thefts in Bitcoin-land.
For one thing, we don't know that any bitcoin were actually stolen from Mt Gox. They might have bene running a ponzi/fractional reserve.

The other thing is that even if the surveillance infrastructure isn't very effective today the one thing we know it's only going to get better over time.

Information being leaked today is a problem, even if no adversaries are going to be able to exploit it until tomorrow, because the blockchain will still be here tomorrow.

let me ask it another way.

do you think you could de-anonymize most, if not all, addresses on the blockchain today with enough resources at your disposal?  cuz you make it sound like you can.

edit:  i'm not talking about Coinbase users, ppl who leave their addresses on the forum here, or who perform traffic analysis type tx errors routinely.
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August 23, 2014, 05:36:37 PM
 #11057

do you think you could de-anonymize most, if not all, addresses on the blockchain today with enough resources at your disposal?  cuz you make it sound like you can.
If proper countermeasures were not taken by the community it would be possible, given that "with enough resources" can mean almost anything.
cypherdoc
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August 23, 2014, 05:38:56 PM
 #11058

do you think you could de-anonymize most, if not all, addresses on the blockchain today with enough resources at your disposal?  cuz you make it sound like you can.
If proper countermeasures were not taken by the community it would be possible, given that "with enough resources" can mean almost anything.

i'm talking about NSA level of resources.

so you admit that one can obtain anonymity as long as they are not Coinbase users, ppl who leave their addresses on the forum here, or who perform traffic analysis type tx errors routinely, etc?
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August 23, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
 #11059

do you think you could de-anonymize most, if not all, addresses on the blockchain today with enough resources at your disposal?  cuz you make it sound like you can.
If proper countermeasures were not taken by the community it would be possible, given that "with enough resources" can mean almost anything.

what countermeasures were taken?

AFAIK the community has been working with FBI to make sense of the blockchain, so they can have some kind of a chance catching bad actors.

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August 23, 2014, 05:45:20 PM
 #11060

so you admit that one can obtain anonymity as long as they are not Coinbase users, ppl who leave their addresses on the forum here, or who perform traffic analysis type tx errors routinely, etc?
As long as the never use any service which is recording data and providing it to the NSA.

This means more than just not having a Coinbase account - it also means never buying anything from a company that uses Coinbase as a payment processor (or Bitpay, or any other payment processor).

It means an absolutely perfect track record with no mistakes, because automated surveillance systems don't get bored and complacent like humans do.

Remember that after FDR banned gold not everybody turned in their gold, but it hardly mattered because they couldn't spend it without being worried about getting ratted out.
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