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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1921244 times)
brg444
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March 10, 2015, 05:02:31 PM
 #21841

21e6 announcing they've raised $116M (!): http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/10/secretive-bitcoin-startup-21-reveals-record-funds-hints-at-mass-consumer-play/

*still* not saying exactly what they're up to...

Wow, that's incredible, not just for a BTC related company, but for any silicon valley tech company in stealth mode to raise that amount, has to have a very significant product and team.

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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March 10, 2015, 05:04:19 PM
 #21842

21e6 announcing they've raised $116M (!): http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/10/secretive-bitcoin-startup-21-reveals-record-funds-hints-at-mass-consumer-play/

*still* not saying exactly what they're up to...

Wow, that's incredible, not just for a BTC related company, but for any silicon valley tech company in stealth mode to raise that amount, has to have a very significant product and team.

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..

Also Peter Thiel is invested. He seems to be slowly transitioning towards a more pro-bitcoin stance.
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March 10, 2015, 05:05:14 PM
 #21843

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..
What are they building, though?

How much of that 250 million represents an attack on Bitcoin rather than support of Bitcoin?
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March 10, 2015, 05:06:34 PM
 #21844

21e6 announcing they've raised $116M (!): http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/10/secretive-bitcoin-startup-21-reveals-record-funds-hints-at-mass-consumer-play/

*still* not saying exactly what they're up to...

Wow, that's incredible, not just for a BTC related company, but for any silicon valley tech company in stealth mode to raise that amount, has to have a very significant product and team.

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..

If you look at their jobs page on 21.co it's obvious they are building a hardware product along with interactive software.  Really interested to find out more.
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March 10, 2015, 05:08:01 PM
 #21845

How much of that 250 million represents an attack on Bitcoin rather than support of Bitcoin?

Can you define what you mean?  My personal opinion of 21.co is they are building a very Bitcoin-centric product.
brg444
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March 10, 2015, 05:09:26 PM
 #21846

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..
What are they building, though?

How much of that 250 million represents an attack on Bitcoin rather than support of Bitcoin?

https://21.co/#jobs

Looks like they are heavy into hardware. You'd have to be quite cynical to perceive any attack on Bitcoin reading into this..

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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March 10, 2015, 05:13:37 PM
 #21847

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..
What are they building, though?

How much of that 250 million represents an attack on Bitcoin rather than support of Bitcoin?

https://21.co/#jobs

Looks like they are heavy into hardware. You'd have to be quite cynical to perceive any attack on Bitcoin reading into this..

yes
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March 10, 2015, 05:24:54 PM
 #21848

You'd have to be quite cynical to perceive any attack on Bitcoin
There's more than one company included in the $250 million figure you quoted, right?

Why would you assume my comment was directed at just one of them?
Melbustus
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March 10, 2015, 05:32:03 PM
 #21849

You'd have to be quite cynical to perceive any attack on Bitcoin
There's more than one company included in the $250 million figure you quoted, right?

Why would you assume my comment was directed at just one of them?


I think we've been back and forth on this before. I contend that a service like Coinbase, while obviously not a theoretically ideal user-onboarding platform due to centralization of coins, is inevitable, and also a positive for the ecosystem at this point in time. Part of the necessity for bitcoin to become a powerful asset is user education. If Coinbase makes it easier for people to enter the ecosystem, thus triggering a desire to learn more, then that's a good thing. Hopefully people will in fact learn enough to move most of their coins to cold storage, or a user-controls-2-keys vault solution (like Coinbase msig vault or BitGo's wallet), etc...

If users are simply never going to learn, Coinbase (and/or Circle) will neither help nor hurt. I lean towards it helping, though, as it does make it a lot easier for new casual users to obtain bitcoin. And some of them will likely become serious/knowledgeable users where they would've just ignored bitcoin without the easy initial channel.

Maybe that's too optimistic a viewpoint, but I don't see a realistic alternative.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
Erdogan
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March 10, 2015, 05:35:09 PM
 #21850

So it was in Roman times, and the decline lasted for hundreds of years, so it will be now.

Hundreds of years? I think not. Everything is moving so much faster now. Hundreds of days perhaps.


Yes, in Rome they did not have The Internets

They also did not have Bitcoin  Cool

This year. where does it start? Nobody knows, it is a lottery. Maybe, just maybe, it has already started.

Yepp, it has started.
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March 10, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
 #21851

21e6 are designing ASICs, so you'd expect them to get into mining supply and mining. But surely it makes sense for them to use some of that capital to directly buy BTC reserves.
justusranvier
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March 10, 2015, 05:49:47 PM
 #21852

I think we've been back and forth on this before. I contend that a service like Coinbase, while obviously not a theoretically ideal user-onboarding platform due to centralization of coins, is inevitable, and also a positive for the ecosystem at this point in time. Part of the necessity for bitcoin to become a powerful asset is user education. If Coinbase makes it easier for people to enter the ecosystem, thus triggering a desire to learn more, then that's a good thing. Hopefully people will in fact learn enough to move most of their coins to cold storage, or a user-controls-2-keys vault solution (like Coinbase msig vault or BitGo's wallet), etc...

If users are simply never going to learn, Coinbase (and/or Circle) will neither help nor hurt. I lean towards it helping, though, as it does make it a lot easier for new casual users to obtain bitcoin. And some of them will likely become serious/knowledgeable users where they would've just ignored bitcoin without the easy initial channel.

Maybe that's too optimistic a viewpoint, but I don't see a realistic alternative.
I would classify Coinbase as building dual-use technology that can be employed as useful Bitcoin infrastructure, as well as weapons to attack Bitcoin.

Certainly they are using a substantial amount of funding to reduce the privacy of all Bitcoin users. (As a matter of fact, they explicitly declined to participate in the Open Bitcoin Privacy Project's wallet survey).

They are opening up liquidity pathways between central bank currencies, and at the same time are building the tools to tightly control who is allowed to use those pathways.

There are other startups which focus entirely on blockchain privacy destruction without providing any compensating benefit to Bitcoin users. Those startups are even worse than Coinbase.

Mostly I'd just like to see the enthusiasm tempered with a bit of appropriate skepticism.

Not everybody who pretends to be a friend actually is one.
brg444
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March 10, 2015, 05:50:18 PM
 #21853

21e6 are designing ASICs, so you'd expect them to get into mining supply and mining. But surely it makes sense for them to use some of that capital to directly buy BTC reserves.

I'm very, very curious how they're going to spin this hardware focus toward practical applications for mainstream consumers

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Melbustus
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March 10, 2015, 05:50:20 PM
 #21854

Count is now around 250 milions $ in Bitcoin venture capital in a little over TWO months now in 2015..

Is there a hotter tech trend out there? I don't think so..
What are they building, though?

How much of that 250 million represents an attack on Bitcoin rather than support of Bitcoin?

https://21.co/#jobs

Looks like they are heavy into hardware. You'd have to be quite cynical to perceive any attack on Bitcoin reading into this..


Indeed. "bitcoin" appears 7 times on the jobs page. "blockchain" or "block chain" - 0 times.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 05:52:30 PM
 #21855

you can see that emerging mkts topped long ago in Sept 2014 along with commodities.  we're a global, interconnected economy.  thus, there will be no safe havens in the end:



Germany topped even earlier in June 2014:

Wandererfromthenorth
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March 10, 2015, 05:53:18 PM
 #21856

21e6 announcing they've raised $116M (!): http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/10/secretive-bitcoin-startup-21-reveals-record-funds-hints-at-mass-consumer-play/

*still* not saying exactly what they're up to...

Wow, that's incredible, not just for a BTC related company, but for any silicon valley tech company in stealth mode to raise that amount, has to have a very significant product and team.
mmmh

http://uk.businessinsider.com/juicero-raises-120-million-2015-1?r=US


^Helps put things in perspective...
Melbustus
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March 10, 2015, 05:55:03 PM
 #21857

21e6 are designing ASICs, so you'd expect them to get into mining supply and mining. But surely it makes sense for them to use some of that capital to directly buy BTC reserves.

I'm very, very curious how they're going to spin this hardware focus toward practical applications for mainstream consumers


Maybe they're developing a bitcoin-mining ASIC, or full-node-ASIC, fit for inclusion in every wifi router (for example)? People periodically make references to those possibilities offhand (including Gavin, and Balaji from a16z).

And/or a wallet chip enabling efficient machine-machine payments.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
rocks
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March 10, 2015, 05:56:00 PM
 #21858

21e6 are designing ASICs, so you'd expect them to get into mining supply and mining. But surely it makes sense for them to use some of that capital to directly buy BTC reserves.

There is zero reason to invest >$100M to make mining ASICs at this point. Too many options already exist and the market is largely saturated.

From the article they seem to be focused on expanding consumer usage options for bitcoin and Internet of Things. Might be working on a cheap HW chip that interfaces with bitcoin to enable IoT devices to make micro-payments. Power requirements in IoT devices do not allow for a CPU running even a SPV wallet. You'll need to create a dedicated HW design of some sort, or some type of proprietary interface that connects to a central server service.

Quote
According to Silicon Valley investors such as those taking stakes in 21, that failure to gain mass adoption is partly because the public’s attention has been misguidedly focused on bitcoin’s limited potential as a digital alternative to traditional currencies. In reality, they say, its underlying technology has far wider applications than that. Unlike the currency transactions that are generally associated with bitcoin, these new uses could range from lawyer-free smart contracts to tamper-proof online voting systems.

Quote
Qualcomm’s involvement could spur speculation that 21 has its sights on the so-called “Internet of Things.” That’s the idea that a myriad of smart, Internet-connected appliances will in the future communicate with servers, networks and each other to optimize their operation, maintenance and energy usage without direct human involvement.

It's all just speculation, but that is what this forum is for.
cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
 #21859

can you imagine the feeling of empowerment felt when walking into these hallowed halls? (Cincinnati Public Library 1874 from Classic Pics):

Melbustus
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March 10, 2015, 06:04:19 PM
 #21860

...
They are opening up liquidity pathways between central bank currencies, and at the same time are building the tools to tightly control who is allowed to use those pathways.

I suppose this (or the eventual results of this) are where we learn if bitcoin really does enable the opt-out potential that we think it does. It shouldn't matter if these tightly controlled channels are being developed; bitcoin should still enable people to transact freely. If these efforts at rigorous control are successful globally, then bitcoin has failed as a technology, at least at that overarching freedom-enabling level (which is most of the longterm value).



There are other startups which focus entirely on blockchain privacy destruction without providing any compensating benefit to Bitcoin users. Those startups are even worse than Coinbase.


Yes, and I'll continue to fight efforts to broadly <color>-list coins, though I think some degree of it is probably inevitable. Back to the above re this stuff testing whether or not bitcoin is truly resistant to censorship.



Mostly I'd just like to see the enthusiasm tempered with a bit of appropriate skepticism.
...

That's fair.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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