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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2013842 times)
cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 06:25:18 PM
 #21841

Dow -291

prepare thyself.
"With e-currency based on cryptographic proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and transactions effortless." -- Satoshi
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thezerg
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March 10, 2015, 06:55:47 PM
 #21842

Maybe they're developing [...] a full-node-ASIC, fit for inclusion in every wifi router (for example)?
That would be extremely cool. But is a dedicated/specially designed chip necessary for such low-intensity computing?

I would think that you'd prove the market first in an FPGA with hard processor design first.  Performance/battery life would not be as good, but it would be good enough for many products -- certainly good enough for the first gen.
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March 10, 2015, 07:03:53 PM
 #21843

can you imagine the feeling of empowerment felt when walking into these hallowed halls? (Cincinnati Public Library 1874 from Classic Pics):



Look at the elegant carvings and structure of the building and the infrastructure to get access to the books and so forth.  Truly awesome.

Now, if most of each one of those books contained a record of someone buying a latte or losing a satoshi-dice bet then we have a pretty good representation of Bitcoin.  A really good example of taking something worthwhile and sullying it.


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March 10, 2015, 07:12:35 PM
 #21844

if you fail to see the fundamental difference between those stacks and the already primitive flash drive on my newish machine, i fail to see the interest hanging out here has for you.
brg444
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March 10, 2015, 07:27:57 PM
 #21845

21e6 are designing ASICs, so you'd expect them to get into mining supply and mining. But surely it makes sense for them to use some of that capital to directly buy BTC reserves.

There is zero reason to invest >$100M to make mining ASICs at this point. Too many options already exist and the market is largely saturated.


I wouldn't be so sure of that......

Just look at Bitfury who are raising money like it's nothing every other month.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
justusranvier
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March 10, 2015, 07:36:48 PM
 #21846

if you fail to see the fundamental difference between those stacks and the already primitive flash drive on my newish machine, i fail to see the interest hanging out here has for you.
There's also the issue that what the blockchain records is not records of transactions, but rather proofs of ledger integrity.

The blockchain is a statement that, "no matter how many lattes were purchased or Satoshi Dice bets were placed, the number of bitcoins available for spending, is and always has been, exactly correct"

Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.
msin
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March 10, 2015, 07:42:43 PM
 #21847

21e6 announcing they've raised $116M (!): http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/03/10/secretive-bitcoin-startup-21-reveals-record-funds-hints-at-mass-consumer-play/

*still* not saying exactly what they're up to...

Wow, that's incredible, not just for a BTC related company, but for any silicon valley tech company in stealth mode to raise that amount, has to have a very significant product and team.
mmmh

http://uk.businessinsider.com/juicero-raises-120-million-2015-1?r=US


^Helps put things in perspective...

Haha, good point!  Although I would still argue it's extremely rare to see any stealth startup in any space raise that kind of funding.
Erdogan
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March 10, 2015, 07:44:13 PM
 #21848

if you fail to see the fundamental difference between those stacks and the already primitive flash drive on my newish machine, i fail to see the interest hanging out here has for you.
There's also the issue that what the blockchain records is not records of transactions, but rather proofs of ledger integrity.

The blockchain is a statement that, "no matter how many lattes were purchased or Satoshi Dice bets were placed, the number of bitcoins available for spending has been perfectly, is and always has been, exactly correct"

Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

This is exactly right. The ledger aspect is overblown.

Melbustus
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March 10, 2015, 07:45:46 PM
 #21849

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
Cryptoasset rankings and metrics for investors: http://onchainfx.com
marcus_of_augustus
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March 10, 2015, 08:38:11 PM
 #21850

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.

cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 08:40:09 PM
 #21851

Dow -333 smackdown:

79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX
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March 10, 2015, 08:53:11 PM
 #21852

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.
screw that, i want direct access to a copy of the entire blockchain at all times. 
cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 09:06:08 PM
 #21853

another ramp in dollar starting right now.  look out risk assets...
justusranvier
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March 10, 2015, 09:38:08 PM
 #21854

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.
The real trick will be figuring out a secure way of letting the entire network do it.

I don't think committed UTXO sets by themselves are sufficient.
cypherdoc
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March 10, 2015, 09:46:11 PM
 #21855

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.
The real trick will be figuring out a secure way of letting the entire network do it.

I don't think committed UTXO sets by themselves are sufficient.

what does "committed" mean in this sense?
smooth
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March 10, 2015, 09:57:11 PM
 #21856

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.
The real trick will be figuring out a secure way of letting the entire network do it.

I don't think committed UTXO sets by themselves are sufficient.

what does "committed" mean in this sense?

Committed means mined into a block (not the whole set literally, just a hash of it)
molecular
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March 10, 2015, 10:13:42 PM
 #21857

...
Recording all transactions that have happened is done because that's the easiest way to generate the proof, not because storing that kind of history is the purpose of Bitcoin.

Well said.

embedding the hash of UTXO in the block headers and retaining only the last few hundred blocks is being experimented with as a client option.
The real trick will be figuring out a secure way of letting the entire network do it.

I don't think committed UTXO sets by themselves are sufficient.

I hadn't thought about this...

If a wrong UTXO hash would invalidate the block it should work, no? But then there's also incentive to omit it due to the risk of the block being rejected. Requiring it would be a hard fork? Is that the problem?

EDIT: found a good "in a nutshell" description: https://rustyrussell.github.io/pettycoin/2014/11/29/Pettycoin-Revisted-Part-I:-UTXO-Commitments.html

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justusranvier
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March 10, 2015, 10:32:57 PM
 #21858

If the protocol was changed to require a valid UTXO set hash for a block to be considered valid, and if enough entities kept enough history to catch any cheating before its too late it should probably work.

Tricky part is finding the right values of "enough."
tabnloz
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March 10, 2015, 10:47:38 PM
 #21859

another ramp in dollar starting right now.  look out risk assets...

more deflation, bad for gold.....until US doesn't raise rates.
stonerider
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March 10, 2015, 10:53:09 PM
 #21860

another ramp in dollar starting right now.  look out risk assets...

more deflation, bad for gold.....until US doesn't raise rates.

Gold price is rising currently, along with US$. Not uncommon, just an unholy alliance, albeit temporary, I assume.

My signature area is for sale!
PM me if you are interested in renting it.
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